Still Alive Posted July 29, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,031 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 1,231 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2019 11 hours ago, nobleseed said: i find some peoples view of the faith too simplistic, what i mean is some say that only christians go to heaven while everyone goes to hell, i do not think that just because people do not believe automatically go to hell, though they will be judged and without an advocate like we have and their only defense is ignorance. but paul writes in romans that those who do not know will be convicted or justified by their own conscience. but what does the gospels say, that Jesus so loved the world that he gave his son, does it say he only loved christians that he gave his only son, no but the whole world, i reckon when it is all done and God judges the thoughts and deeds of men that we will be amazed at Gods mercy not only for the believer but also for those who remain ignorant. also it is us who know him and his ways that if we continue to sin will be judged more harshly. The link in my tagline covers this perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted July 29, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,031 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 1,231 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, nobleseed said: i find some peoples view of the faith too simplistic, what i mean is some say that only christians go to heaven while everyone goes to hell, i do not think that just because people do not believe automatically go to hell, though they will be judged and without an advocate like we have and their only defense is ignorance. but paul writes in romans that those who do not know will be convicted or justified by their own conscience. but what does the gospels say, that Jesus so loved the world that he gave his son, does it say he only loved christians that he gave his only son, no but the whole world, i reckon when it is all done and God judges the thoughts and deeds of men that we will be amazed at Gods mercy not only for the believer but also for those who remain ignorant. also it is us who know him and his ways that if we continue to sin will be judged more harshly. It actually is ridiculously simple and starts way back in Genesis. You are either saved or you're not. And this begs the question, "what are you saved from?" Answer: Death The saved receive eternal life. The lost die. In fact, the lost may live a great life or a lousy life, but if they are not saved, they die, like animals do. They are no more. The only caveat is that their "death" I'm referring to is not the death of the body, but the death of the person at the second death. That's why It's called the "second death". As an analogy, think of yourself as a person playing a video game, controlling a character in the game as you sit on your couch. The death of your character is the first death. The death of YOU on your couch would be the second death Edited July 29, 2019 by Still Alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted July 29, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,830 Content Per Day: 1.28 Reputation: 4,822 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2019 12 hours ago, nobleseed said: i find some peoples view of the faith too simplistic, what i mean is some say that only christians go to heaven while everyone goes to hell, i do not think that just because people do not believe automatically go to hell, though they will be judged and without an advocate like we have and their only defense is ignorance. but paul writes in romans that those who do not know will be convicted or justified by their own conscience. but what does the gospels say, that Jesus so loved the world that he gave his son, does it say he only loved christians that he gave his only son, no but the whole world, i reckon when it is all done and God judges the thoughts and deeds of men that we will be amazed at Gods mercy not only for the believer but also for those who remain ignorant. also it is us who know him and his ways that if we continue to sin will be judged more harshly. According to your beliefs all one has to do is to be "good" and ignorant and God will allow us into heaven. And also according to you, heaven help us Christians because the harshness of God's wrath will fall on us - not the lost. You have the entire thing completely backward. And that is because you have not understand what Paul was saying in Romans 2. You are saying that Paul is teaching "works-for-salvation". He is not. Romans 2:11-16 Verse 11 - God has no favorites. The same criteria for living with Him forever is the same for all people. Verse 12 - Gentiles who aren't aware of the Ten Commandments, etc. and sinned anyway will perish. Those who do know the Law - don't murder, lie, rape, steal, commit adultery, cheat, hate, boast, and love evil - and they do those things anyway will also perish. Verse 13 - a knowledge of right and wrong and God's law DOES NOT save. It's those who are obedient to God who are made righteous. Verse 14 - Gentiles didn't know Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. They'd never even heard of it. But the Law was written on their hearts. Every human knows instinctively at some point - when right and wrong is understood - that murder is wrong, hate is wrong, stealing is wrong, and that lying is wrong. You don't have to teach that - but reinforce that. The ignorant masses are not ignorant. Verses 15 - Lost people - even those who've never read the Bible - give proof that the law is written on the heart when they obey without having been instructed and feel remorse when having done wrong. Right or wrong - their deeds come from their response to the law in their heart. And this is not talking about their being saved or lost - but living according to or in violation of what they understand But here is the problem and where you err. Paul also say in Romans that "there is none good NO NOT ONE". So, the Christian knows right and wrong, the orthodox Jew knows right from wrong, and the whole WORLD knows right from wrong......and chooses the wrong. Ergo, the need and necessity for Christ. Your own misguided interpretation is turned on its head by the next verse....verse 16 Verse 16 - This will all come to a head on that Great Day when God - through the person of Jesus Christ - judges the hidden heart of all people. The Bible is clear. Those in Christ will live with Christ. Those without him will perish in hell. Those who have not heard the law of God still know it instinctively and like all mankind chooses to sin. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted July 29, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,996 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,693 Content Per Day: 11.69 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2019 13 hours ago, nobleseed said: i find some peoples view of the faith too simplistic, what i mean is some say that only christians go to heaven while everyone goes to hell, i do not think that just because people do not believe automatically go to hell, though they will be judged and without an advocate like we have and their only defense is ignorance. but paul writes in romans that those who do not know will be convicted or justified by their own conscience. but what does the gospels say, that Jesus so loved the world that he gave his son, does it say he only loved christians that he gave his only son, no but the whole world, i reckon when it is all done and God judges the thoughts and deeds of men that we will be amazed at Gods mercy not only for the believer but also for those who remain ignorant. also it is us who know him and his ways that if we continue to sin will be judged more harshly. It is very simple all true and genuine Christians will go to heaven. All those who are unbelievers will go to hell. Everyone will be judged. Believers and nonbelievers. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovethelord Posted July 29, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 667 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 1,540 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2019 Nobleseed, Simple, child-like belief in Christ is what saves us from the penalty of our sin. Nothing else is required. And because the message is so simple, religions want to add works (their own efforts) into earning their way into Heaven. 1 John 3:23, “This is God’s command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another.” Romans 1:18, “But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness.” Mark 10:18, “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked. “Only God is truly good.” No one can claim to be without sin or be good enough to enter heaven on the basis of merit. Only God’s grace as bestowed by belief in Jesus Christ lets us in. We cannot create our own path or ignorance to Heaven. It has to be God's way. Without the blood of Jesus covering our sin, we stand guilty before God. Here a very common question: How can a good and loving God condemn to hell someone who’s never heard of him? Answer: Romans’s 1:20, “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted July 30, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 43 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.89 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted July 30, 2019 50 minutes ago, pinacled said: And if it permitted i will scripture bomb. you mean like this? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted July 30, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 273 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,326 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,568 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted July 30, 2019 21 hours ago, nobleseed said: i find some peoples view of the faith too simplistic, what i mean is some say that only christians go to heaven while everyone goes to hell, i do not think that just because people do not believe automatically go to hell, though they will be judged and without an advocate like we have and their only defense is ignorance. but paul writes in romans that those who do not know will be convicted or justified by their own conscience. but what does the gospels say, that Jesus so loved the world that he gave his son, does it say he only loved christians that he gave his only son, no but the whole world, i reckon when it is all done and God judges the thoughts and deeds of men that we will be amazed at Gods mercy not only for the believer but also for those who remain ignorant. also it is us who know him and his ways that if we continue to sin will be judged more harshly. Hi nobleseed, You have hit on a very `hot` topic. I also agree that some people who never heard of the Lord Jesus, (eg like those in deepest darkest Africa years ago) they will be judged on their works, as God`s word tells us. Their works will reveal how they lived their life according to their God given conscience or how they did not. God`s word tells us that creation declares of God and people have a God given conscience (if they have not seared it), and if they go by that then they will be judged accordingly. Of course, even though they never knew of the Lord and His sacrifice, it is He who will cover their sins, and give them life on the new earth for they obeyed according to the revelation they knew. (Rev. 20: 13) Marilyn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted July 30, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,271 Content Per Day: 3.31 Reputation: 16,688 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 30, 2019 21 hours ago, nobleseed said: people do not believe automatically go to hell, though they will be judged and without an advocate like we have and their only defense is ignorance. To not believe the Scriptures is calling God a liar. There may be different places in hell for those who are ignorant, with the extreme being eternal torment. We don't know that, but we do know that only those who serve and worship the God of the Bible and rely on Jesus Christ, being born of His Spirit, will be with Him in heaven, because that is what the Scriptures clearly state. Rom 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. Rom 2:15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them Rom 2:16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. God demands that both Jew and Gentile be perfect. Neither is, so neither attains righteousness before God. Only if their faith in their Creator is such that they trust in our God Who provides a Redeemer Sacrifice will they be justified. Job did this as a gentile, and so did Abraham. They were justified by their faith. We who are justified by faith and born again have compassion on the helpless and the least. This has separated us from the world for centuries. Mat 25:41 ESV "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Mat 25:44 Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?' Mat 25:45 Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted July 30, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.83 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) God is perfect. His Son is perfect.The Holy Spirit is perfect.God has billions of Angels at his beck-and -call who never miss a tap.He is not looking for perfection— He is engulfed in it — He is looking for TRUST and LOVE- two things that Satan and one- third of Heaven lacked .They were envious of God’s position and were stupid and proud enough to think they could take over.God is probably desiring to refill the gap left by those that rebelled against Him.I think that when the number of saved humans equals the number of FallenAngels, it’s going to be all over. God wants to spend Eternity with those who Trust and Love Him and know Him to the point that they will happily worship Him forever.Do you know Him we’ll enough to worship him right now ? If not, what makes you think something magical is going to happen after you die and stand before Him?Better get with the Program......quit trying and start trusting. “ The man who finds Life will find it by Trusting God”. God bless. please note that some of the Angel stuff in this post was merely my opinion, having said that,I think it’s interesting and makes sense..... Edited July 30, 2019 by Blood Bought 1953 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted July 30, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,324 Content Per Day: 1.70 Reputation: 1,700 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 30, 2019 15 hours ago, johnthebaptist said: I figure that if we follow the two great commandments - that we love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves -that we'll be okay. Something that is impossible for the committed, devout Christrian, so it is tripply imposible for those who hate Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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