The Seven Heads of Daniel 7 and Rev. 17

[iamlamad]

5 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Is the before or after Revelation was penned? Seems Pentecost came first...? Or are you talking of the so-called 70 weeks stuff...?

 

The church was sent out around 32 or 33 AD. John saw the vision around 95 AD. "I am talking?" No, JOHN and the Holy Spirit behind him wrote of the 70th week: 9 chapters of Revelation cover the 70th week. It is certainly not "so called." Of course Daniel told of it first.

[iamlamad]

22 minutes ago, luigi said:

Iamlamad, You are making many assumptions without the Word of God in support for your claims. The events in the Olivet discourse, are the worst of times for the faithful (Daniel 12:1; Mark 13:19-20). If these worst of times are in the past, then those of today would make the Word of God for the worst of times, invalid, in comparison to the events transpiring today.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Luigi, you are missing TIME and TIMING. Daniel 12:1 in TIME is at the midpoint of the future 70th week where Jesus told us the days of GT will begin.  Mark 13:19 is speaking of the say time: in Matthew 24 Jesus said "great tribulation" of "those days." 

The days of GT cannot arrive until the Beast is revealed (at the 7th trumpet). He cannot be revealed until the first half of the week begins, with the 7 trumpet judgments. The first half of the week cannot start until the 6th and 7th seals are opened. We are just not there yet. And any believer who is expecting His coming will not be here for those days. The rapture comes before wrath.

In Matthew 24, Jesus said, "the end is not yet" meaning He was not yet speaking of "the end" when He mentioned wars, rumors of wars, earthquakes, pestilences, etc. These are the "beginning of sorrows" and are CHURCH AGE. These things are parallel to the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th seals.

Edited July 9, 2020 by iamlamad

[Justin Adams]

31 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

The church was sent out around 32 or 33 AD. John saw the vision around 95 AD. "I am talking?" No, JOHN and the Holy Spirit behind him wrote of the 70th week: 9 chapters of Revelation cover the 70th week. It is certainly not "so called." Of course Daniel told of it first.

It is just interpretation. Nothing more. And many see that John penned Revelation BEFORE the fall of Jerusalem.

Irenaeus said of Yeshua: So, likewise, he was an old man for old men … Now, that the first stage of early life embraces thirty years, and that this extends onwards to the fortieth year, every one will admit; but from the fortieth and fiftieth year a man begins to decline towards old age, which our Lord possessed while he still fulfilled the office of a teacher … those who were conversant in Asia with John, the disciple of the Lord [affirming] that John conveyed to them that information. … Some of them [i.e., those who teach this, PS], moreover, saw not only John, but the other apostles also, and heard the very same account from them, and bear testimony as to the [validity of] the statement. (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 2:22:4-6)

He was talking about Yeshua.  Much of Irenaeus' stuff is categorically wrong including the Roman emperor at the time of Johns's exile. He was the g0-to guy for all that later became 'church policy' but was incorrect.

[Sister]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Just because the majority believe something, doesn't make it truth;  True. But neither does it automatically make it NOT true.

This is a good scripture, and it certainly happens after the trib.'  But it is not Paul's rapture; indeed cannot be. Paul makes it clear his rapture comes just before wrath, and John is clear that Wrath starts before the 70th week - so the entire week comes with Wrath. Next, Paul's rapture gathers from earth: this gathering in Matthew gathers from heaven. 

This is scripture correctly understood. Jesus was talking to Jews about the end of THEIR age - as proven when He mentioned the abomination that will divide the week. Why then would ANYONE think this gathering would have anything to do with the Gentile church of today? Sorry to say, but it seems you have been led astray. 

iamlamad

What are you talking about - it is not Paul's rapture?

Jesus was speaking.  He's telling us when the rapture will take place and that is after the tribulation, not before.

[iamlamad]

30 minutes ago, Sister said:

iamlamad

What are you talking about - it is not Paul's rapture?

Jesus was speaking.  He's telling us when the rapture will take place and that is after the tribulation, not before.

Sis, WHO WROTE 1 Thes.?Who wrote the second letter to them?  It was PAUL. Paul is the only writer of the NT that received a revelation of the rapture. And He called it a mystery until then, proving no one else wrote of it. Specifically the "mystery" was that those who are alive at the resurrection would be changed into resurrection bodies a moment after the dead in Christ were resurrected. That is why I say "Paul's rapture." Matthew wrote of a gathering, and Paul once called his rapture a "gathering." When one says "paul's rapture," that should leave out other "gatherings" that come at different times. 

No, you are mistaken: Jesus was not talking about Paul's rapture: He was talking about a DIFFERENT gathering. Paul's rapture comes just before wrath, and wrath begins before any part of the 70th week. Matthew's gathering comes after the entire week is finished. Matthew's gathering gathers from heaven, while Paul's rapture gathers from around the earth. They are TWO DIFFERENT gatherings.

[iamlamad]

50 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

It is just interpretation. Nothing more. And many see that John penned Revelation BEFORE the fall of Jerusalem.

Irenaeus said of Yeshua: So, likewise, he was an old man for old men … Now, that the first stage of early life embraces thirty years, and that this extends onwards to the fortieth year, every one will admit; but from the fortieth and fiftieth year a man begins to decline towards old age, which our Lord possessed while he still fulfilled the office of a teacher … those who were conversant in Asia with John, the disciple of the Lord [affirming] that John conveyed to them that information. … Some of them [i.e., those who teach this, PS], moreover, saw not only John, but the other apostles also, and heard the very same account from them, and bear testimony as to the [validity of] the statement. (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 2:22:4-6)

He was talking about Yeshua.  Much of Irenaeus' stuff is categorically wrong including the Roman emperor at the time of Johns's exile. He was the g0-to guy for all that later became 'church policy' but was incorrect.

Question: if God spoke to you and you heard His voice and His words - and He TOLD you that the 70th week was clearly marked in Revelation....would you then call it "interpretation?" You would have the word straight from the Head of the Church. 

[Justin Adams]

3 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

You would have the word straight from the Head of the Church. 

17 They keep saying to those who despise Me, ‘The LORD says that you will have peace,’ and to everyone who walks in the stubbornness of his own heart, ‘No harm will come to you.’ 18 But which of them has stood in the council of the LORD to see and hear His word? Who has given heed to His word and obeyed it?

That is the Mark of a prophet of the Lord High God. Have YOU stood in the Divine Council?

[luigi]

5 minutes ago, Sister said:

iamlamad

What are you talking about - it is not Paul's rapture?

Jesus was speaking.  He's telling us when the rapture will take place and that is after the tribulation, not before.

 

49 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Luigi, you are missing TIME and TIMING. Daniel 12:1 in TIME is at the midpoint of the future 70th week where Jesus told us the days of GT will begin.  Mark 13:19 is speaking of the say time: in Matthew 24 Jesus said "great tribulation" of "those days." 

The days of GT cannot arrive until the Beast is revealed (at the 7th trumpet). He cannot be revealed until the first half of the week begins, with the 7 trumpet judgments. The first half of the week cannot start until the 6th and 7th seals are opened. We are just not there yet. And any believer who is expecting His coming will not be here for those days. The rapture comes before wrath.

In Matthew 24, Jesus said, "the end is not yet" meaning He was not yet speaking of "the end" when He mentioned wars, rumors of wars, earthquakes, pestilences, etc. These are the "beginning of sorrows" and are CHURCH AGE. These things are parallel to the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th seals.

If you read the Olivet discourse concisely you will notice that prior to the AoD's arrival (Mark 13:14) there will be the beginning of sorrows (Mark 13:8). These preliminary sorrows include the saints being brought before the rulers and kings of the earth (Mark 13:9), where brother shall betray brother unto the death, and father their son, and children their parents (Mark 13:12). The beast along with his mouth will then make his appearance at which time he will be allotted a time, times, and dividing of time in which he will wear out the saints (Daniel 7:25). This is the beast's and his mouth's allotted 42 months (Revelation 13:5), in which he makes war with the saints (Revelation 13:7), and where all other people throughout the world who are not written in the lambs book of life will love the beast (Revelation 13:8). At the conclusion of the second half of the week (which is the conclusion of these 42 months) the judgment will sit and decide to take away the beast's dominion, to consume and destroy it unto the end (Daniel 7:26). This destruction and consumption of the beast's system represent the seven vials of God's wrath poured out upon the beast's worshippers in Revelation 16. Prior to the Lord's wrath being poured out upon the beast's worshipers in Revelation 11:18, the kingdom will be awarded to the saints (Daniel 7:27), who will commence to rule along with the Lord (Revelation 11:15).

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 

Daniel 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows. 9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. 12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Daniel 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Revelation 11:15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

[iamlamad]

Just now, Justin Adams said:

17 They keep saying to those who despise Me, ‘The LORD says that you will have peace,’ and to everyone who walks in the stubbornness of his own heart, ‘No harm will come to you.’ 18 But which of them has stood in the council of the LORD to see and hear His word? Who has given heed to His word and obeyed it?

That is the Mark of a prophet of the Lord High God. Have YOU stood in the Divine Council?

It is also written:John 10:27

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

 

Scripturally, we ALL as sheep should be hearing His voice. It used to be only prophets and Kings would hear the voice of God. But since Pentecost everyone has access to the mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit. 

[Justin Adams]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

It is also written:John 10:27

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

 

Scripturally, we ALL as sheep should be hearing His voice. It used to be only prophets and Kings would hear the voice of God. But since Pentecost everyone has access to the mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit. 

Not so. All the apostles and then Paul later had either been with the Lord face to face or had heavenly visions. Choose your words very carefully. Too many today claim they hear directly from the Lord High God. Prophesy as a spiritual gift is EXHORTATION mainly. You just cannot have a secret word from God and expect it to be a church wide revelation that all must be bound to. 

"No scripture is of private interpretation.."

Be very careful because what you think you know may not be so.