"As in the days of Noah ..." Matt. 24:37

[RonaldBruno]

19 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

The rapture of the Church will happen very suddenly and only born again believers will go in this event. It will be imminent and nothing else needs to happen for Jesus to take His Church to heaven. In the second coming there will be seven years of disasters and tragic events on this earth as the book of Revelation describes.At first there will only be unbelievers left on this earth. Although many will come to Jesus during this time. It is not sudden and imminent. 

That is a common Pre-Trib view, like the "Left Behind" series laid out. We'll see, I would prefer a Pre-Trib rapture. That would be a relief - no perseverance, no persecution. Many Christians in,Islamic countries are being persecuted, raped, pillaged and plundered unto death. But those of us who live in freedom can't imagine having to go through that. 

 

[missmuffet]

1 minute ago, RonaldBruno said:

That is a common Pre-Trib view, like the "Left Behind" series laid out. We'll see, I would prefer a Pre-Trib rapture. That would be a relief - no perseverance, no persecution. Many Christians in,Islamic countries are being persecuted, raped, pillaged and plundered unto death. But those of us who live in freedom can't imagine having to go through that. 

 

Yes, I am a pretrib believer because I read the Bible literally and that is what the Bible tells me. During the 7 year tribulation those who do not take the MOB will be treated like the Jews were treated during the World War 2 except much worse. Those who do take the MOB will come upon all the judgments that God puts on the earth at that time. Millions will die.

[missmuffet]

4 minutes ago, Tampered With said:

I also read the Bible literally and yet we come to a totally different conclusion as I diligently compare scripture from many translations, use every source I can to understand its deepest meaning. This is why we have so many different denominations because we do not all agree. 

Time will tell. 

[RonaldBruno]

9 minutes ago, Tampered With said:

How many will flee the faith as in "a great falling away" if they had to?

That's right. Jesus taught us the Parable of the Seed, planted in different soils. Those who do not have deep roots, wither and die when the trials come. Those who have firm relationships with Christ, true believers, born again, will not fall away. 

[RonaldBruno]

There are several views of what the mark of the Beast is. Some say an embedded computer chip, since they think a cashless society is coming. That would take some time - not any time soon like we are thinking.  You can't buy or sell unless you have this mark. Is the entire world subject to this?

The Islamic terrorists wear either a headband or on their sleeve, "In the name of Allah" written in Arabic.

It is interesting that the Greek number 666 looks almost exactly like that mark/phrase. When they occupy a territory, they force you to convert or else you would be killed, exiled and certainly would not be able to buy or sell among them. Yes, that mark is well know among the Christians in south Sudan for instance and 80+ other countries where Islamic terrorist organizations exist.

This would be the test for the Jews in the end,( or anyone else left behind) after we are raptured, they will have to persevere the persecution and/or flee into the wilderness. 

[Justin Adams]

I have said my piece regarding this I believe. But I did not give a good idea of what to look for. However, Yeshua DID. So my thinking on this is that we should forget for a while what our preconceived ideas are and study the life of Noah and what was actually happening prior to the deluge and the flood. It must be relevant else the Lord would not mention it.

God never wastes words, and when He Speaks we should all sit up and take notice. Good and in depth notice.

So let us see what actually led up to the flood...  Any ideas anyone??

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

Pre-Tribbers hold to Daniels 70th week and so the details within that view contain a 7 year Trib., a new Temple to be built from which the AOD accrues, 7 year Peace Treaty, etc. I believe Daniel 9:24-27 was fulfilled. The angel speaks of 70 weeks of years concerning Israel, the holy city - it was a prophecy accurate pointing to Christ's First Coming. The last week was complete, nevertheless it was during week that Christ appeared and was crucified.

What already happened? After 69 weeks He was cut off.

1. Christ dies for our sins putting an end to the law, finishing transgression and putting an end to sin, (spiritually).

2. He made reconciliation possible by grace through faith.

3. He imputed His everlasting righteousness into those who believe.

4. Vs. 26 speaks of the people of the prince to come will destroy the city and sanctuary- they did in 70 AD. This was added prophecy to happen decades after Christ ( not within the 70 weeks). 

5. Christ did confirm a new convenant during His 3 1/2 year ministry and what was the outcome? He put an end to sacrifice. He was the final sacrifice.

6. Because of the abominations He made it desolate, He sent the Romans to destroy Jerusalem as He himself prophesied. And Israel remains spiritually desolate until the consumation, when He returns and lifts the veil of a remnant Israel (Rom. 11). He will pour His Spirit upon the desolate (Jews).

The GT is 3 1/2 years, and no need for a new Temple with sacrifices all over again. That would be an insult to God. Why would God ordain the Old system of Law again.

______________

So why would martyrs (the multitude in heaven who just came out of the GT) ask how long oh Lord until you judge and avenge ...? First if, like us, we are confused about the precise order and details of the future end time scenario. As some think its 7 years and other 3 1/2. Also they are outside of time, not having days, months as we do, not can they see what is going in on down there - so they ask. And this is more fore our perspective on earth, then theirs.

You're correct, I hold the Pre-Trib view. And that Daniel 9: 24-27 is a prophecy of the timing of the coming Messiah to the day, of Christ's arrival to Jerusalem to present Himself as their Messiah. From the time listed that started from the decree of Artaxerxes ( cf. Neh 2: 1-8). No need wasting cyber ink on opposing views.

[JoeCanada]

7 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

Pre-Tribbers hold to Daniels 70th week and so the details within that view contain a 7 year Trib., a new Temple to be built from which the AOD accrues, 7 year Peace Treaty, etc. I believe Daniel 9:24-27 was fulfilled. The angel speaks of 70 weeks of years concerning Israel, the holy city - it was a prophecy accurate pointing to Christ's First Coming. The last week was complete, nevertheless it was during week that Christ appeared and was crucified.

What already happened? After 69 weeks He was cut off.

1. Christ dies for our sins putting an end to the law, finishing transgression and putting an end to sin, (spiritually).

2. He made reconciliation possible by grace through faith.

3. He imputed His everlasting righteousness into those who believe.

4. Vs. 26 speaks of the people of the prince to come will destroy the city and sanctuary- they did in 70 AD. This was added prophecy to happen decades after Christ ( not within the 70 weeks). 

5. Christ did confirm a new convenant during His 3 1/2 year ministry and what was the outcome? He put an end to sacrifice. He was the final sacrifice.

6. Because of the abominations He made it desolate, He sent the Romans to destroy Jerusalem as He himself prophesied. And Israel remains spiritually desolate until the consumation, when He returns and lifts the veil of a remnant Israel (Rom. 11). He will pour His Spirit upon the desolate (Jews).

The GT is 3 1/2 years, and no need for a new Temple with sacrifices all over again. That would be an insult to God. Why would God ordain the Old system of Law again.

______________

So why would martyrs (the multitude in heaven who just came out of the GT) ask how long oh Lord until you judge and avenge ...? First if, like us, we are confused about the precise order and details of the future end time scenario. As some think its 7 years and other 3 1/2. Also they are outside of time, not having days, months as we do, not can they see what is going in on down there - so they ask. And this is more fore our perspective on earth, then theirs.

Hi Ronald,

You stated...."5. Christ did confirm a new convenant during His 3 1/2 year ministry and what was the outcome? He put an end to sacrifice. He was the final sacrifice.

Well, I do agree that Christ did confirm a new covenant. But the Angel Gabriel told Daniel that " And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week".......

The new covenant is an everlasting covenant. It is not just for one week. ( one seven )

But beyond that, the word translated "make" is the Hebrew "gabar". In the Greek, the equivalent word is "dynamoo". So both of these words carry a meaning of strengthening or empowering. Therefore, Jesus doesn't "make" a New Covenant with the many, but rather He strengthens a pre-existing covenant.

 

" Then after sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing".......

I'm sure that you are familiar with Dr. Thomas Ice, Director of the Pre-Trib Research Center. There are many things he says that I do not agree with, but he does interpret this phrase beautifully. He says ...." Gabriel is telling us that Jesus will not have achieved all of the purposes of the 70 Weeks Prophecy with His crucifixion"......

In the Greek Septuagint Old Testament, which was the Old Testament text of the early church, it has Dan 9:27 like this:

" And one week shall establish the covenant with many; and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away: and on the Temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation"......

We cannot and should not ignore the Septuagint version of Dan 9:27......

 

He Puts an End to Sacrifice and Offerings.....

Jesus's death on the cross did not end or eliminate these sacrifices in the Temple. Apostate Jews continued to make sacrifices for forty more years. The destruction of the Temple in 70 AD eliminated them. It is impossible to imagine any length of Shabuim (weeks of years) that would include Jesus's death and destruction of the Temple 40 years later, which would only be the midpoint of an enormous 80 year Shabua. 

 

 

 

 

[WilliamL]

21 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

I have said my piece regarding this I believe. But I did not give a good idea of what to look for. However, Yeshua DID. So my thinking on this is that we should forget for a while what our preconceived ideas are and study the life of Noah and what was actually happening prior to the deluge and the flood. It must be relevant else the Lord would not mention it.

God never wastes words, and when He Speaks we should all sit up and take notice. Good and in depth notice.

So let us see what actually led up to the flood...  Any ideas anyone??

What led up to the Flood judgment was the total corruption of men and the earth. Check. (Did you hear about the new and improved gene editing device that is even better than Crisper?)

Jasher 4:18 ... and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals.

Only a small remnant remained faithful to God and His truths. Check.

God brought the Flood to cleanse the earth; next time the fire.  Still waiting on that one.

[Justin Adams]

Yes, and where did they get this understanding from..? Not from reading tea-leaves but from higher beings that sinned greatly. Read Enoch 1; The Giants; the War Book of the Essenes and a lot of other inter-testament literature. It was not JUST mankind, but the offsprings of unhly unions that required remediation as well. They taught how to really sin properly.. and it is again happening. Yes today.

The Watchers brought the devastating horrors to earth. And something seems to be doing it again...

As in the days of Noah...

Edited October 22, 2019 by Justin Adams