The Unforgivable Sin

[lftc]

@DustyRoad

I'll take that last post as a definite yes, you believe that people who slander the Holy Spirit are doomed to go to Hell with no opportunity for forgiveness.

In Romans  Paul says "if you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." 
I guess he forgot to add "but only if you didn't slander the Holy Spirit."
And when he said that nothing can separate us from the love of God, he meant, except Slandering the Holy Spirit.

I believe I established that your reference to Ananias and Sapphira is specious in that it is not a required reference. And that passage refers to other dire circusmtances that a person can become engulfed.  You replied that you did not see that those passages indicated something more going on at the Spiritual level, but instead attempted to link lying about the exact sum of a transaction to slandering the Holy Spirit, even though the context of Matthew 12 says exactly why Jesus said that. 

I believe I have established that Hebrews actually militates against your reading and interpretation of those passages.  THe Hebrews 1o passage you agree refers to the same act, slandering the Holy Spirit.  But instead of being tied to the rest of the message of Hebrews you still insist that it is a separate sin.

But I understand that to your way of thinking I did not adequately provide a rebuttal to those.

So be it.

[Blood Bought 1953]

The best explanation of Hebrews 10 is available in the video section, posted by George some time ago....it all makes perfect sense and the wise person  that internalizes the truth behind the scary verses will sleep much better at night....

It’s the video by Tozer.....

[lftc]

11 minutes ago, lftc said:

I believe I established that your reference to Ananias and Sapphira is specious in that it is not a required reference. And that passage refers to other dire circusmtances that a person can become engulfed.  You replied that you did not see that those passages indicated something more going on at the Spiritual level, but instead attempted to link lying about the exact sum of a transaction to slandering the Holy Spirit, even though the context of Matthew 12 says exactly why Jesus said that. 

@DustyRoad

I need to correct this.  It is the Mark passage that says exectly why Jesus said that.

[lftc]

 

22 minutes ago, DustyRoad said:

You take offence to the words of the Lord, not to my interpretation of them.

You make that clear in the post above. The words of the Lord are rather clear in identifying the unforgivable sin (it's committed against the Holy Spirit); so what's your issue with God? Why are you misdirecting your argument on to me?

The Lord said what it was in the scriptures, not me. You make light of the scriptures with your sarcasm. You even deny the agreement of scriptures by proclaiming the unforgivable sin as committed against the Son of God, which clearly it is not. That's not what Matthew 12:32 indicates, friend.

But I agree: we should stop discussing this. That's a wise course of action. 

I think that we both allege that we are interpreting the words of God out of the scriptures.  This is the nature of such a discussion.

In the post I just quoted, you say that I take offence at the words of the Lord, but you and I both are using the scriptures combined with logic to try to understand what is meant by Matthew 12:32.

I do NOT make light of the scriptures with sarcasm.  I illustrate that the Apostle Paul made statements that categorically exclude the reading of Matthew 12:32 that is being presented.  I use sarcasm as did the Apostle Paul.  It can be a reasonable communication tool.

I EXALT the scriptures to the point that I will not rest until I can understand.  Hence the position I have come to on this after decades of wrestling and studying.  I UPHOLD the agreement of the scriptures by examining them until understanding is found.

You may not (clearly do not) agree with the results of my journey.  That is fine.  My belief in the unfathomable riches of his Mercy means that is OK.  Your journey is a serious task.  I know enough about you to know that you are very serious about pursuing it.  I know enough about me to know that I am not the sole arbitor of scriptural truth.  You are not responsible to me for anything related to truth.

I only kept after this subject because it has great significance to people who search for an answer on it.  Sometimes their very mortal life depends on the answer.  Sometimes their immortal life depends on the answer they decide.  I just want to make sure the arguments are presented accurately.

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by lftc

[lftc]

1 hour ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

The best explanation of Hebrews 10 is available in the video section, posted by George some time ago....it all makes perfect sense and the wise person  that internalizes the truth behind the scary verses will sleep much better at night....

It’s the video by Tozer.....

Thanks for the reference.

[lftc]

6 minutes ago, DustyRoad said:

Now I'm confused, lftc. Were you utilizing sarcasm or weren't you? Your sarcasm included throwing the unforgivable sin as articulated in Matthew 12:32 against other passages. You liken yourself to the apostle Paul, an author of the scriptures, who did indeed employ sarcasm in some of his writings. Are you claiming that you should be held blameless because you're doing it like Paul did? I disagree with you. You equivocate.
 

You prove where your issue lies: not with me, but with the unforgivable sin. Did the prophets, each time they uttered words which the Holy Spirit gave them to speak, remember to make mention of your concerns each time they spoke? Were these things written in a way which holds to your excellence? For surely if this were so then sacrifices and burnt offerings would have never been commanded of fleshly Israel in the first place. Yes, we know that the Lord was never really interested in them … but did they? 


 

DustyRoad,

I shall leave my defense in the mind of the readers.

I fear that I have pushed too hard on this issue.  Your peace of mind is of great concern to me so forgive me for pushing this issue, please. 

I have come to know you somewhat from your testimonies and the great advice you have given others here.  You are a man worth knowing and great and beautiful child of God.  I want to one day learn of the wonderful things God has done in your life as we worship the great and awesome King.  I would want to know you in this life, as in sit and have tea or coffee, but I fear that the distance is too great. 

Forgive me for being too brash.

[lftc]

going offline now - its late

[nobleseed]

On 10/11/2019 at 5:57 AM, vinho1000 said:

Jesus said that blasphemie against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven unto man. What it is blasphemie? Blasphemie is a sin committed by words. Every word that insults God is blasphemie. If someone speak a word against the Holy Spirit have committed unforgivable sin. We have to believe in the gifts of The Spirit. Cessacionists repent of your unbielief and believe in the miracles and wonders that the Holy Spirit Works today. If someone atributtes to Satan the manisfestation of the Spirit commits this blasphemy like the pharisees. Then we have to watch and take care with our mouth.

any abomination and those who do them is unforgivable

[lftc]

2 hours ago, nobleseed said:

any abomination and those who do them is unforgivable

for reference go to https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/242932-logic-and-sense/?page=2