Al Baghdadi.

[Last Daze]

35 minutes ago, Alive said:

There is a great deal of talk about the 'supernatural' arising. I am not convinced that that sort of thing is at all what the scriptures point to.

I don't think a person can fully appreciate what takes place in the world without a view toward the supernatural because of its influence on the natural.

• He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men.  And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast.  Revelation 13:13-14a

The unseen realm is actually "more real" than what is seen since it is eternal, its just that because we don't see it, we don't give it much thought.

• While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.  2 Corinthians 4:18

[Alive]

1 minute ago, Last Daze said:

I don't think a person can fully appreciate what takes place in the world without a view toward the supernatural because of its influence on the natural.

• He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men.  And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast.  Revelation 13:13-14a

The unseen realm is actually "more real" than what is seen since it is eternal, its just that because we don't see it, we don't give it much thought.

• While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.  2 Corinthians 4:18

I understand this...I was pointing to the fact that these things are behind the curtain, so to speak.

For the most part...one of the milestones the Lord brought me to many years ago while laying a foundation, was to show me just how real 'behind the scenes' is. His lesson to me that day and one other, was "this stuff is real". Since then no more and I was to focus on Him instead.

Does that make sense?

[Last Daze]

27 minutes ago, Alive said:

I understand this...I was pointing to the fact that these things are behind the curtain, so to speak.

For the most part...one of the milestones the Lord brought me to many years ago while laying a foundation, was to show me just how real 'behind the scenes' is. His lesson to me that day and one other, was "this stuff is real". Since then no more and I was to focus on Him instead.

Does that make sense?

One thing that I've come to realize lately is that it isn't our understanding of the supernatural or the things to come that will make the difference, but rather it's our lifestyle worship of God, obedience to His will that will give us the discernment and strength we need to persevere to the end.  We can have a perfect understanding of the things to come but that doesn't guarantee that we will make godly decisions when the time comes.

Is that what you mean?

[Alive]

1 minute ago, Last Daze said:

One thing that I've come to realize lately is that it isn't our understanding of the supernatural or the things to come that will make the difference, but rather it's our lifestyle worship of God, obedience to His will that will give us the discernment and strength we need to persevere to the end.  We can have a perfect understanding of the things to come but that doesn't guarantee that we will make godly decisions when the time comes.

Is that what you mean?

Sure--in general what you say makes sense to me.

My larger point regards a predilection for the supernatural that many have...I am not sure this is necessarily a healthy thing.

Whenever I have known individuals that leaned that way--there was difficulty. This has been my experience. Others' may vary.

[Last Daze]

24 minutes ago, Alive said:

Sure--in general what you say makes sense to me.

My larger point regards a predilection for the supernatural that many have...I am not sure this is necessarily a healthy thing.

Whenever I have known individuals that leaned that way--there was difficulty. This has been my experience. Others' may vary.

I can agree.  A proper perspective is necessary.  I'm not obsessed with the supernatural, just acknowledging its role.

[Alive]

3 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I can agree.  A proper perspective is necessary.  I'm not obsessed with the supernatural, just acknowledging its role.

Thank you for a measured response.

:-)

To be clear, I wasn't pointing at you--only making a general observation. If any of our comments hit 'home', so to speak--it is the Lord who does the work.

[WilliamL]

On 10/31/2019 at 3:58 PM, WilliamL said:

On 10/31/2019 at 3:43 PM, wingnut- said:

... the city the anti-christ reigns from...

I would be very interested to see how you would go about supporting this statement.

Of course, I don't accept the belief in a "the" antichrist; there will be a number of them.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1150-the-antichrist-myth/

On 10/31/2019 at 4:27 PM, wingnut- said:

I don't want to derail diaste's thread, but here is a quick summation from just one chapter.

Revelation 17  Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.”

So you begin with this woman whose sexual immorality and wine has affected the kings of the earth and those who dwell on the earth.

5 And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations.” 6 And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.

The woman is identified as "Babylon the great", who is drunk with the blood of the saints and martyrs of Jesus.

15 And the angel said to me, “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages.

Now an angel, a messenger of God reveals the meanings of some symbols, such as the waters representing numerous peoples, nations, and languages.

 18 And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

And lastly, that the woman is the "great city" ruling over everyone else.  So what we have is one city, with dominion over the kings of the earth and having an influence on everyone else that is not positive.  Also accredited with all the blood being shed in the war against the saints.

God bless

But your answer says nothing about "the Antichrist" reigning from Mystery Babylon. Which is what my challenge was about.

[WilliamL]

On 11/1/2019 at 2:16 PM, wingnut- said:

On 11/1/2019 at 1:49 PM, Last Daze said:

Just because it wasn't mentioned doesn't mean that it didn't happen.  I can't conceive of a timeline when the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns is released from the abyss at the fifth plague, with only two plagues to go.

 

The fifth trumpet is the first of the three woes, which appears to align with satan's permanent removal from heaven and the beginning of the 3 1/2 year period of the beasts war on the saints, at least from my perspective.

The fifth trumpet speaks about

Rev. 9:1 ...a star having fallen [perfect participle] from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit...

This star is Satan or one of his angels, in all likelihood, after they have been cast down from  heaven. This (the fifth seal) is when the Beast, Azazel, is released from the Abyss, as foretold by the book of Enoch. Then Satan/ "The dragon [gives] him [the Beast] his power, his throne, and great authority." 13:2 At this point, Satan goes backstage, allowing the Beast Azazel to do all the up front dirty work as the eighth head.

[wingnut-]

11 hours ago, WilliamL said:

The fifth trumpet speaks about

Rev. 9:1 ...a star having fallen [perfect participle] from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit...

This star is Satan or one of his angels, in all likelihood, after they have been cast down from  heaven. This (the fifth seal) is when the Beast, Azazel, is released from the Abyss, as foretold by the book of Enoch. Then Satan/ "The dragon [gives] him [the Beast] his power, his throne, and great authority." 13:2 At this point, Satan goes backstage, allowing the Beast Azazel to do all the up front dirty work as the eighth head.

 

I see it nearly the same way, the timing part I agree with, but I don't put much trust in the book of enoch.  However, I do agree with the basic idea as to how you see it happening.

 

God bless

[wingnut-]

12 hours ago, WilliamL said:

But your answer says nothing about "the Antichrist" reigning from Mystery Babylon. Which is what my challenge was about.

 

Start with the implied collaboration, the woman is riding the beast.  Then it is a matter of all the other shared attributes.  The kings of the earth, and the dwellers of the earth are drunk on this city's wine, which is a reference to the spiritual influence.  The beast we know from other scripture has demanded all worship be directed to him, so they are connected in the religious system.

Then you have the reference to the city being drunk with the blood of the saints and martyrs of Christ.  The beast is the one who wages the 42 month war on the saints, but both of them are apparently accountable for the casualties of this war.  So they are connected in the military system.

Then we are told the city has dominion over the kings of the earth in the passage, and elsewhere in scripture we are told that the beast is given authority over everyone.  So they are also connected in rulership.

Conclusion, the beast is reigning from this city.

 

God bless