God And Allah The Same

[ReneeIW]

9 hours ago, Steve_S said:

They don't actually accept the Torah as inspired. They believe the Torah was corrupted (I don't even think they would call it the Torah). They think any text kept by Jews or Christians has been entirely polluted,

Do you know why they believe Moses and Abraham existed and were prophets? They don’t deny these men spoke for God or am I wrong? Where did they get this information? Did Mohammed say it was revealed to him by Gabriel?

I understand they have been led astray and they don’t believe what we believe about the OT and NT, but they believe the OT prophets  existed and spoke for God, and that Christ existed and spoke for God?

9 hours ago, Steve_S said:

They have basically been led into idolatry by a false prophet. Their idea of who God is is not who God has revealed Himself to be in any capacity. As such, they are not worshiping God. They are worshiping their prophets idea of a god.

 I agree. But do they believe they are worshipping the God of Abraham?

So, for example, Hindus have no problem saying they don’t worship the God of Abraham, but would Muslims say this about themselves?

Edited November 2, 2019 by ReneeIW

[OneLight]

The split came about through Ishmael, one of Abraham's sons.  The Jewish linage runs through Isaac while through Ishmael the Islam belief will come about years later.  Both came from the same background and held the same beliefs up to that time frame.  Both claim to believe the same history as it was taught to them.

[Steve_S]

4 minutes ago, ReneeIW said:

Do you know why they believe Moses and Abraham existed and were prophets? They don’t deny these men spoke for God or am I wrong? Where did they get this information? Did Mohammed say it was revealed to him by Gabriel?

They only believe what Mohammed said regarding Abraham and Moses. In other words, the version of Moses they believe is the one present in the Koran, not the Torah (Moses is the most mentioned person in the Koran apparently). In other words, Moses was targeted highly by the Koran, mostly to revise what had actually happened.

They do not deny that these men spoke for God, but the version they present of these men is not the version that the actual scriptures present, it's the perverted versions that the Koran presents.

8 minutes ago, ReneeIW said:

I understand they have been led astray and they don’t believe what we believe about the OT and NT, but they believe the OT prophets  existed and spoke for God, and that Christ existed and spoke for God?

They believe a *version* of them that existed and spoke from God. This cannot be emphasized enough. They have a false understanding of the prophets because the version of the prophets they are presented with is from the Koran, not the bible.

They also have a false Christ. Their Jesus cannot be the Son of God because their book says God has no Son. Jesus was explicit that there would be false Christs. The Christ that the Koran presents is a false Christ, not the real Jesus. That also must be emphasized.

Jesus claimed to be God. To the Islamic mind, Jesus would've never claimed to be God, because it's not possible that Jesus was God - and Jesus was a prophet who would not lie. So in their mind, that (and other claims made about Jesus both by the writers of the gospels and by Jesus himself) was made up, thus making the gospels entirely untrustworthy. The only version of Jesus they trust comes from the Koran as a result - never the actual gospels themselves.

10 minutes ago, ReneeIW said:

 I agree. But do they believe they are worshipping the God of Abraham?

They believe they are worshiping the the version of god that the version of Abraham the Koran presents worshiped. Again, and I cannot emphasize this enough, when you or I say God or even Abraham, we mean something different than a Muslim. Their beliefs are based on what is presented in the Koran. The Koran basically rewrites the Torah.

12 minutes ago, ReneeIW said:

So, for example, Hindus have no problem saying they don’t worship the God of Abraham, but would Muslims say this about themselves?

They would say they worship the God of Abraham, yes, but they would mean they worship the Koranic version of god that the Koranic version of Abraham worshiped.

These differences seem semantic, but they are not. It's important to understand that all of their ideas of these people only come from their writings - mostly the Koran, but also probably the Hadith to a degree. They do not read the Torah as a companion to the Koran. They do not read the gospels to see what Jesus said. Their entire idea of all Abraham, Moses, the prophets, Jesus, all of them, only comes from their texts - never from the actual texts. They avoid the actual texts, probably because there are truths there that would destroy their belief in their false religion.

[ReneeIW]

30 minutes ago, Steve_S said:

These differences seem semantic, but they are not. It's important to understand that all of their ideas of these people only come from their writings - mostly the Koran, but also probably the Hadith to a degree. They do not read the Torah as a companion to the Koran. They do not read the gospels to see what Jesus said. Their entire idea of all Abraham, Moses, the prophets, Jesus, all of them, only comes from their texts - never from the actual texts. They avoid the actual texts, probably because there are truths there that would destroy their belief in their false religion.

The differences don’t seem semantic at all. Thanks for taking the time to explain all this. The way I explained it sounded as if I were giving some sort of credence  to what they believe. I’m glad you corrected what I wrote.

There are some Christian leaders who believe the Koran is an inspired text given to Muslims. I remember after 9/11, the singer Bono said that we (Christians, Jews, Muslims)were all descendants of Abraham and just having a family fight over the interpretation of Scripture.

I have heard a few(not a lot) Christian leaders use the verse”other sheep have I who are not of this flock”  to explain that Muslims may be children of God but not everything has been revealed to them yet. I think some people just want to believe we will all be saved in the end. 

Thanks again for your thorough and correct explanation!

 

[existential mabel]

17 hours ago, Willa said:

 

 

19 hours ago, angels4u said:

Here's more information what explains who Allah is, I can't read everything very good on my phone ,the letters are too small,pls let me know if I'm posting a wrong link or if it has wrong information, I ask you to check it for me please, I check it later when I'm on the computer .

https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

 

17 hours ago, ReneeIW said:

And just to clarify, they believe they worship the same God as Christians and Jews, as far as the Father is concerned. The same way Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses believe, but they don’t believe our New Testament. They believe we were deceived the same way we believe they are deceived.

Another thing,  Some see the Catholic teachings as representing the Christian Faith, so they believe our faith teaches that God has a mother which they see as blasphemous.

Also, They misinterpret catholic teachings and believe we teach a sexual relationship brought about God the Son.

This is what I learned in college. Hope this helps.

 

17 hours ago, Willa said:

He is not one of 3 gods,  which is what they think we believe.   He is one person of One God.  Muslims believe He is just a prophet, as was said.  They don't think God had a Son.

 

ah ha i see now why the moslums would use the term infidels. given what they believe to be 'true' about Christian. hey that is really helpful everyone

[existential mabel]

12 hours ago, ReneeIW said:

The original post seemed to be asking if Muslims believe that “Allah” is the God of the Old Testament.

when i started the thread i needed to clear up my confusion! and that of other Christians! mature ones at that! my objective is to learn about the differences about  God and Allah as i keep hearing sweeping statements that they are both the same and that the word Allah is god yeah might well mean that but an Arab god and therefore a pagan deity.

The Bible and the  Quran are not the same and so therefore its not the same religion

[Ruth Also]

The Quran is available online, so you can find what is written there regarding how Islam views various Judeo-Christian ideas.  And it is indeed different than we would expect.  

[other one]

21 hours ago, existential mabel said:

i keep coming across folk who either believe that God and Allah are the same or dont even know and have to ask someone and this is a mature Christian.

so this has got me thinking that i would like to be able to explain this. not the world's best at this so i thought i would start a thread to get my thoughts clearer.

i reasoned that its hard to explain the fact that they are not the same and that is because people it seem take it at face value and not question this fact. and it seems that more and more the interfaith movement is clouding this over.

 

Mabel,  I have spent a lot of time studying Islam, both as the theocracy that it is and it's history.        This question seems to come up from a lot of people.    Simply speaking I could just say no they are not the same....   While it is true that allah is the Arabic word for god, just because you use that word does not mean that you are speaking of what we refer to as the Father.

Historically you could say that the god of Ishmael is the god of Abraham....    problem is, when you study the history of the Arabic People,  they, as did the Israelites, fell from the god of Ishmael and went after many pagan gods.    As time went along an angel visited Mohammad and gave him some instructions....   Mohammad thought it was a demon and was afraid of it.  It was his wife who convinced him that it was  from 'god'.    So he kept letting this spirit give him instructions.....

Mohammad's tribal god was the moon god.   So when he was instructed that there was only one god he just picked up on that his god must be the one and only one and pushed that into his forming  religion.   The symbols and much of his god's attributions stayed with his forming what he called his Islamic religion.

At that time he was in Mecca and for several years he kept getting messages from this demon entity and built up his religion.     He had very little success in Mecca as he was being very peaceful in the way he was teaching.   Finally the people there got tired of him and they ran him out of town.  He went to Medina where he built an army and started forcing his beliefs on everyone.  He later went back to Mecca for forced his god on everyone and booted all the gods out of the kabba in Mecca and placed his own there and built Islam around that.

He kept getting instructions from his demon guide and over years spread over all the middle east and after his death into Europe itself.   

Basically they claim that their Allah is the same as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but in truth their Allah god isn't even the god of Ishmael.    His history and character are completely different from the Father, and overall he is more like Satan than he is the Father.

It is not a good idea to propose this to a devout Muslim though for they will be offended to the point of violence when you say such things about Mohammad or allah.    All you can really do to help is to explain who and what Jesus really is and let the Holy Spirit speak to their spirits to accept the knowledge and go with it.    I have learned over the years not to put down Islam to Muslims for it ends any kind of productive conversation.    And I still get death threats from my follies.    

Keep in mind that the majority of the Muslims of the world are not Arabic, and many do not even know how to read....    like a lot of Christians who never read the Bible for themselves, they go to church/mosque and have someone tell them what their laws are and the instructions of Mohammad.      

The Koran itself is really in two parts.   The parts that were given to Mohammad while he was in Mecca seem to be peaceful instructions to his followers, however much of the Koran written after he moved to Medina is totally violent...   and according to Mohammad's teaching himself, the later scripture abrogates the earlier writings.    The way the Koran is printed is dependent on how long the verses are and are all jumbled into an impossible to make complete sense of unless you understand the order they were given to him.    The Imam's understand this from studying Bukhari's hadiths of the things Mohammad had said while he was alive....   So the Imams can pretty much tell their followers whatever fits their needs as to peacefulness or violence.    And this they do.

Allah and the Father are two distinctly different entities, assuming that Allah exists at all or is just a made up thing by the demon that was channeling through Mohammad.

[existential mabel]

6 minutes ago, other one said:

His history and character are completely different from the Father, and overall he is more like Satan than he is the Father.

yes its the character of Allah that i am interested in. i have been finding out about the character of God. that way i can see..

[existential mabel]

https://www.gotquestions.org/who-is-Allah.html

Answer: Allah is an Arabic word that means “God” or, more accurately, “the God.” In Western culture, it is commonly believed that the word Allah is used exclusively by Muslims to describe their God, but this is not actually true.

The word Allah is used by Arabic speakers of all Abrahamic faiths (including Christianity and Judaism) as meaning “God.” However, according to Islam, Allah is God’s proper name, while Christians and Jews know Him as YHWH or Yahweh.

When Arabic-speaking Christians use the word Allah, it is usually used in combination with the word al-Ab. Allah al-Ab means “God the Father,” and this usage is one way Arab Christians distinguish themselves from Muslims.