A Future Seven Years?

[wingnut-]

17 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I absolutely agree that He is cut off after the 62 weeks.  It might be worth looking at the beginning of the prophecy again.

• Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.  Daniel 9:24

Atonement for iniquity is part of what was decreed for the seventy weeks.  I'm sure we can agree that atonement for iniquity was accomplished through the death of Christ.  If the Messiah is cut off after the 69th week, then which week was atonement for iniquity made in?  Has to be the 70th.

 

This is what diaste touched on, the 70 weeks are decreed for the Jews and Jerusalem to accomplish these things.  THEY must make atonement for their iniquities, which they have not done as they rejected Him.  Just to clarify in scripture, this is what must be fulfilled.

 

Matthew 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! 38 See, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

 

This goes back to what occurred at the triumphal entry.

 

Matthew 21: 8 Most of the crowd spread their cloaks on the road, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. 9 And the crowds that went before him and that followed him were shouting, “Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!” 10 And when he entered Jerusalem, the whole city was stirred up, saying, “Who is this?”

 

This is part of the psalm that is sung every 10th of Nissan, for the choosing of the Passover Lamb.

 

Psalm 118:25 Save us (Hosanna), we pray, O Lord!
    O Lord, we pray, give us success!

26 Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!
    We bless you from the house of the Lord.
27 The Lord is God,
    and he has made his light to shine upon us.
Bind the festal sacrifice with cords,
    up to the horns of the altar!

28 You are my God, and I will give thanks to you;
    you are my God; I will extol you.
29 Oh give thanks to the Lord, for he is good;
    for his steadfast love endures forever!

 

The atonement for their iniquity is contingent upon their accepting Him as Messiah, as it is for everyone.  This takes place at the end of the 70th week, just as the 69th week ended before it.

 

God bless

[Last Daze]

4 hours ago, wingnut- said:

This is what diaste touched on, the 70 weeks are decreed for the Jews and Jerusalem to accomplish these things.  THEY must make atonement for their iniquities, which they have not done as they rejected Him.  Just to clarify in scripture, this is what must be fulfilled.

As I understand atonement for sin, in the old covenant the priest would have to make a sacrifice.  In the new covenant, Jesus offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice and His death provides atonement for sin.  Neither we, nor the Jews, can make atonement for our sins.  Atonement was made by Christ on the cross.  If we repent of our sins, we are forgiven based on His atoning sacrifice.  That, and eternal life, is the new covenant gospel.

4 hours ago, wingnut- said:

The atonement for their iniquity is contingent upon their accepting Him as Messiah, as it is for everyone.

Their forgiveness of sins is contingent upon repentance, as it is for everyone.  Atonement was made by Christ on the cross.

[wingnut-]

3 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Their forgiveness of sins is contingent upon repentance, as it is for everyone.  Atonement was made by Christ on the cross.

 

Agreed, I worded that poorly.  The point I was making is that they are still covered in their iniquity unless/until they accept Him as Messiah, which is yet future for them.

[Last Daze]

1 minute ago, wingnut- said:

Agreed, I worded that poorly.  The point I was making is that they are still covered in their iniquity unless/until they accept Him as Messiah, which is yet future for them.

I was pretty sure that that's what you meant but it was a distinction that I felt needed to be made since atonement for iniquity is one of the things that takes place during the seventy sevens.  And if atonement for iniquity occurred at Christ's death, during which of the 70 weeks did it occur?

[wingnut-]

1 minute ago, Last Daze said:

I was pretty sure that that's what you meant but it was a distinction that I felt needed to be made since atonement for iniquity is one of the things that takes place during the seventy sevens.  And if atonement for iniquity occurred at Christ's death, during which of the 70 weeks did it occur?

 

You were right to point it out, I wouldn't want to confuse anyone, was certainly not my intent.  Marv touched on how I understand it, in that the conditions don't necessarily have to fall within the seventy weeks, they just have to be fulfilled prior to the conclusion of it.

 

[Uriah]

15 hours ago, Diaste said:

It looks to me like there are some distinctions made.

"Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place."

I don't see the 70 weeks had anything to do with Jesus accomplishing the tasks; those tasks are given to Daniel's people.

As you pointed out in the past the Messiah was cut off after 69 weeks, the 7 weeks plus the 62 weeks. 

I agree 'after' means 'after' but if there exists a divine, mysterious pause on the prophetic clock at the time immediately prior to Jesus death, then the 69th week could be over with the 70th week still to commence. 

I find it quite baffling in any case as the why of it makes no sense to me. It seems to me there is at least one half of the week left to fulfill as we have not experienced the A of D associated with great tribulation and the return of Jesus and the gathering.

I also agree that atonement for iniquity has been accomplished in the death and resurrection of our Lord. But the rest? Maybe that will take a full 7 years. Maybe not. Surely it has not happened.

Hi Diaste

The seventy weeks decreed for "your people" means simply that they must continue in that city (which must continue) for that length of time (at least). ONLY Jesus can do those other tasks BY His atonement for iniquity. "The covenant" in this passage would ONLY be understood by Daniel and all Jews to be THE convent which is the CONTEXT of what Daniel had just been praying about a few short sentences prior. 

This covenant is confirmed for ONE week, that one final week (in the midst of it, half way). If Jesus atoned for iniquity, it had to be WITHIN one of the weeks-the 70th! 

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one final week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease

[Diaste]

7 hours ago, Uriah said:

Hi Diaste

The seventy weeks decreed for "your people" means simply that they must continue in that city (which must continue) for that length of time (at least). ONLY Jesus can do those other tasks BY His atonement for iniquity. "The covenant" in this passage would ONLY be understood by Daniel and all Jews to be THE convent which is the CONTEXT of what Daniel had just been praying about a few short sentences prior. 

This covenant is confirmed for ONE week, that one final week (in the midst of it, half way). If Jesus atoned for iniquity, it had to be WITHIN one of the weeks-the 70th! 

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one final week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease

It could be true. I'm thinking that there still must be some fulfillment left because an end to sin, everlasting righteousness, etc., are beyond man and general in scope, maybe world wide? I don't think that has happened. 

Matt 24 records, "this generation shall not pass till all these things are fulfilled.",  which would mean the beginning of sorrows, the abomination standing where it ought not, great tribulation and the sign of the coming of the Son of man. So all that has to happen in one generation. That hasn't happened yet. 

And we are told to look to Daniel for the understanding of the A of D. It's not impossible there is a coming fulfillment of Daniel 9. 

Maybe that doesn't mean there are 7 years of prophecy left to fulfill. 

It's interesting that Jesus said to look to a fulfilled prophecy to understand an unfulfilled one.

Maybe it's like this: <69 weeks>   Jesus   <70th week> That's after the 69th week. Scripture only says 'after' and doesn't demand 'within'.

 

[Diaste]

18 hours ago, Last Daze said:

And who are Daniel's people?  Is Jesus one?

And during which week was it accomplished?

I think the reference to Daniel's people is just to designate who, sans all other connotations. Jesus would be outside that as Creator. And the prophecy predates Jesus birth. Daniel was and Israelite and a Jew so it's the Jews referenced here. 

Did it have to happen during a week? Maybe, since the tasks were not accomplished, God had to take over putting a stop to the countdown. The very existence of Jesus throws a wrench in the works supplanting the ability for Daniel's people to do what they were told, and they weren't doing it anyway, and never were going to get it done. So it's possible Jesus is cut off after the 69th week and yet not within the last week. The clock is stopped. But maybe that's just something I heard and believe and it's not accurate.

From Matt 24 something is coming. Maybe it's 7 years, maybe it's not. It's some amount of time that's at least 3.5 years. But that leaves the beginning of sorrows which can't be equated to 2000 years in my mind.

 

[Last Daze]

12 hours ago, wingnut- said:

You were right to point it out, I wouldn't want to confuse anyone, was certainly not my intent.  Marv touched on how I understand it, in that the conditions don't necessarily have to fall within the seventy weeks, they just have to be fulfilled prior to the conclusion of it.

Have you given any thought to the confirming of the covenant being the new covenant?  There is a reference to the Messiah, the Messiah being cut off, an end to sacrifice, atonement for sin, all of which speak to the new covenant.

I know that so many people are fixated on the final week as being a 7 year peace treaty of sorts but what if that isn't the case?  Just want to give people food for thought.

[JoeCanada]

3 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Have you given any thought to the confirming of the covenant being the new covenant?  There is a reference to the Messiah, the Messiah being cut off, an end to sacrifice, atonement for sin, all of which speak to the new covenant.

I know that so many people are fixated on the final week as being a 7 year peace treaty of sorts but what if that isn't the case?  Just want to give people food for thought.

Hey LD,

I don't think that "the confirming of the covenant being the new covenant" can be the New Covenant that Jesus established. His New Covenant is an everlasting Covenant....not just for one week.

I also don't believe that the 70th week begins with a peace treaty. You're right though, too many people are fixated on there being a peace treaty to begin the final week. Jesus never alluded to it, neither did Paul or Matthew, nor does Revelation. The only mention is in 1 Thes 5:3 "when they say peace and security, then sudden destruction will come upon them". I think that is referring to the time just before the Wrath of God kicks in.