Holidays over Holy Days...

[JustPassingThru]

10 minutes ago, Tigger56 said:

In Leviticus 23:2, the Lord refers to the Sabbath and the Holy days as "the feasts of the Lord". They are not Jewish holy days. In fact, truthfully, they belong to the Lord and He is the one that commands their observance.  Also, though "Jews" have come to mean Israel, that wasn't always the case. Jacob became known as Israel and there were 12 tribes or sons from Him. Though later it became 13 as Joseph's birthright went unto Ephraim and Manasseh. You ought to research the location of these tribes or nations now, it will surprise you.  The scriptures being quoted in regards to judgment has no application here. I am simply giving a section of scripture in Zechariah that states the Lord will insist that the world keep the Feast. Why? If it isn't important, if it has been done away with, if it doesn't matter.... then why make the world keep it?  

So I'm happy the Lord has blessed you my brother and for that you judge me, ...are you really keeping the "spirit" of the Holy Days?

Those of the Gentile nations that survive the last seven years of Daniel's 490 year prophecy, ...that God gave to him, will have to repopulate a renewed planet after the terrible judgement that fell upon and destroyed it from the Wrath of the Lamb.

Their children will have to be taught the ways of God, so that means not one "jot or tittle will fall" will be in effect for them, for them to "learn" about God, ...for 1,000 years those on the Earth will be forced to live the moral and ceremonial "Laws" God imposed on His chosen people, the children of Israel, ...that is what the prophet Zechariah is prophesying about and the people that will have to observe it.

The millennium is the "seventh" day in God's plan to show mankind there is nothing in them holy or righteous, ...living in perfect "Edenic" conditions, ...at the end of the 1,000 years the turn and join forces with the devil and rebel and revolt against God, ...proving what God said about man is true:

I say to the LORD, “You are my Lord; I have no good apart from you.”  Psa 16:2

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jer 17:9

 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:  Rom 7:18a

[Alive]

8 minutes ago, Tzephanyahu said:

Why do you believe Paul if he seems to contract Yahweh Himself?  Or maybe Paul has been misunderstood... 2 Peter 3:16.  What seems more likely to you? I'll go with the Apostle Peter's opinion.

What, should we say the Bible is written with completely harmony and unity of message until Paul comes along and then it's suddenly skewed at the end and things have to change?  God is not the author of confusion. 

No, the message from Genesis is the same through to Revelation.  It is Paul who has been misunderstood.  Otherwise, why would Yahweh preserve the wealth of the Old Testament?  Couldn't the Father cut it down massively if it wasn't needed now it was "all change"? 

Be careful on this matter.  If you want to believe that the Bible is unified in message until Paul, when it becomes different, you need to assess who you are giving more credit to and the path of logic...

What is more likely.  The Bible's message being harmonious across thousands of years and multiple authors, even in the Messiah Himself - until the letters of Paul,  which change the message, OR, that you have misunderstood Paul.  Which seems more likely out of those two?  

Therefore, there is nothing wrong with the Feasts.  On the contrary, they are blessed!  But why on earth would anyone speak against them or Torah?  Better to not speak of Torah or the Feasts at all, rather than speak against them.

Love & Shalom

You are misrepresenting what I typed.

Please read carefully and respond in kind. Otherwise, we can't discuss.

[LadyKay]

15 minutes ago, Tzephanyahu said:

But why on earth would anyone speak against them or Torah?  Better to not speak of Torah or the Feasts at all, rather than speak against them.

I don't think anyone here is speaking against them. At less that is not what I am seeing here. I am not at the end of this thread yet, but so far I have not seen where anyone has said, Do not keep this day or that day.  Only that if you choice to keep a day then that is yours to do so. But not to think lowly of your fellow Christians who do not keep a day.   

[Alive]

For you guys that keep the feasts. I have done so over a season and took note this fall season.

For the record....

Perhaps it would be good for you fellas to teach us the meaning of the feasts?

It seems that would be more profitable than arguing whether we should or shouldn't keep them.

 

[Tzephanyahu]

2 minutes ago, Alive said:

You are misrepresenting what I typed.

Please read carefully and respond in kind. Otherwise, we can't discuss.

I've read your post again my friend and what I wrote still stands.

Do you think Paul really wrote to contradict the Word of God?  Do you think he is writing to say "Never mind about the holy commands of God anymore, neither bother living your life by them"? If that was the case, wouldn't that constitute as a skewed teach suddenly within the single harmonious message throughout the Bible?  OR has he been misunderstood?

I don't think people appreciate two things when reading Paul.  The localised context AND the presuppositions he writes with.

@Alive, I don't want to speak as 'matter of fact' like I am.  It's too strong between brothers.  So let me take a moment and try and settle the waves of disagreement between us by saying this... 

I think when people share about the Torah, Feasts and Sabbath it comes with a lot of implied baggage.  The baggage being judgement and self-righteousness, from the Torah followers, and a kind of snobbery in some which is unseemly.  However, as for me, I don't think any less of you if you don't keep the Feasts etc.  In fact, I hold you in higher regard than myself - as I still have many issues.  That said, I speak to you on these things in hope that you and others with benefit from them. 

I don't get anything out of doing this, other than the predictable veiled insults from some.  So why do I bother, other than the genuine  hope that some may also jump into the Torah.  Not to come under it, be ruled by it or pressured by following it!  But rather to bathe in its wisdom and enjoy its guidance - which further unpackages the New Testament like a blossoming flower. 

It's not about intellectual or spiritual superiority it's about going back to God as innocent toddlers and listening to our Papa's words - following some points if we feel convicted and not if not.  But its not about judgement or "you're inferior and we're righteous". No no, not at all. Heaven forbid. 

However, if you wish to stop discussing, that's cool.  I leave in peace without any harboured negativity.

May Yahweh bless you and yours

Love & Shalom

[Alive]

The Lord is paying attention....of that we can all be sure.

I would enjoy and I think others would profit from teachings on the Feasts.

Perhaps that would result in some choosing to keep them.

[Tzephanyahu]

2 minutes ago, Alive said:

The Lord is paying attention....of that we can all be sure.

I would enjoy and I think others would profit from teachings on the Feasts.

Perhaps that would result in some choosing to keep them.

Yeah man, you can't say fairer than that.  I totally agree.  It wasn't the arguments that pulled me in but the Scriptures themselves.

@Tigger56, over to you, please share why the last Feast you enjoyed was interesting and worthwhile.  I talk far too much! 

[JustPassingThru]

24 minutes ago, Tzephanyahu said:

So then, What kind of things did God speak about and what things were important to Him (besides how we love our neighbour)?

Brother, if you want to "keep" the feasts that's between you and God, we've "studied" them and it's awesome and thrilling to "see" Jesus in them, ...a shadow of things to come.

What kind of things did God "speak about, ..am I to understand you are talking about the Logos or the Rhema word of God, we find both in the Bible.

I think it's important to differentiate between the time before the Day of Pentecost and after, the way God dealt with, spoke to mankind before is totally different than He does today, ...in the first 4 Millennium the Holy Spirit came "along side of" and He "came upon" people, ...today in this dispensation of Grace Eph 3:2, ...know as the Church Age, He comes "along side of "and He comes "into" people. 

For the 3rd and 4th Millennium of those first 4 Millennium people had to rely on the written "Logos" with an occasional Rhema "word" spoken to His chosen person.

So, is it important, ...do we listen to the Logos and/or the Rhema word of God, ...naturally you know the answer is both, ...so in my life, in this dispensation of Grace, since the Holy Spirit rules, reigns, guides and directs me from "inside" of me, ...I hear Him teach me from/through the Logos word of God and He speaks to me the "Rhema" word of God on a daily basis 24/7, ...I listen, I pay attention and I ask Him to enable me to do what He tells me, ...never once has He told me to "celebrate" His feasts, ...so, to answer your question, ...in "my" life/walk with the Holy Spirit, ...apparently the physical celebration of those "feasts" must not be that important to Him...

That's why brother, we can both rest and love one another in/with what He teaches us from the Logos word of God:

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:  Col 2:16

Lord bless

[Blood Bought 1953]

All of these Feasts point to  Christ.....if not for that fact, they would be worthless- no more value than “ Ground Hog Day”. Jesus is the Substance of these days.....the days are mere shadows . Some need to get their priorities straight.  “I consider ALL THINGS as dung, that I might KNOW HIM”. Celebrate the Feast Day’s If you wish - no harm done .Its kinda like the Sabbath thing.....fuss and fret over the proper “ day” or do like the Mature Believer  dies and Sabbath EVERY DAY, as God intended.EVERY DAY is a Feast Day when one rests in the Gospel Of Grace.Feast 7 times a year or feast upon the Grace of God EVERY day ......

[Tzephanyahu]

Shalom @JustPassingThrough

34 minutes ago, JustPassingThru said:

I think it's important to differentiate between the time before the Day of Pentecost and after, the way God dealt with, spoke to mankind before is totally different than He does today, ...in the first 4 Millennium the Holy Spirit came "along side of" and He "came upon" people, ...today in this dispensation of Grace Eph 3:2, ...know as the Church Age, He comes "along side of "and He comes "into" people. 

For the 3rd and 4th Millennium of those first 4 Millennium people had to rely on the written "Logos" with an occasional Rhema "word" spoken to His chosen person.

I don't know about all of that, I'm a simple man really.  I just know He never changes.  He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.  He left us all of His Word for counsel, not to serve as just a historical record.

As Paul quite rightly says in 2 Timothy 3:14-17...

"But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

I'm sure Paul and Timothy had the Spirit AND walked by the Spirit.  Yet they still trained and corrected themselves in the Word.  No Logos this and rhema that, no millennium this or "until this time and then".  Rather simply, the eternal Words of Yahweh preserved for our benefit.

34 minutes ago, JustPassingThru said:

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:  Col 2:16

Commonly quoted without consideration to the background of Colossians. But I'm not judging you or disrespecting you my friend.  If you keep any Feast it won't make you any more saved.  So I'm not suggesting you are in jeopardy or any "less" than another.

If fact, I advise that no one observes Torah at all, if it will be with reluctance or a heavy heart.  There's no point. Better to observe with willingness or not at all.  

But I'm not judging you friend.   I have seen a few of your posts on here which I agree with and have seen help others.  Praise Yahweh.

Love & Shalom

Edited November 18, 2019 by Tzephanyahu