2300 days

[Sister]

20 hours ago, douggg said:

There is a difference agreed.   But not in the manner which you are seeing the difference.

 

The great war is at Jesus's return, directed to be at Jesus, to stop his Return.   Which the nations gather at Armageddon.    Zechariah 14 is part of the great event.    We agree on that point.

Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 38/39 is 7 years earlier.     We disagree on that point, with your position that Ezekiel 38/39 is at the end of the millennium in Revelation 20:7-9.

 

Allow me to explain, why my view is correct....

In Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38/39, the nation of Israel, although not Jerusalem, is invaded by Gog's army because the grave of Gog's army will be within Israel.

4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

Differently, in the final rebellion of the nations, in Revelation 20, involving the same Gog and Magog nations, as you point out no one gets inside the camp - which the question becomes what is the camp in Revelation 20?

The camp is the nation of Israel, since in Matthew 24:31 Jesus (via the angels) gathers the remaining elect, the Jews, from out of the nations back to the nation of Israel.    Also found in Ezekiel 39:28.

___________________________________________________________________________________________

So....

Ezekiel 38/39, invasion of Gog's army, entering Israel (but not Jerusalem).    Destroyed on the mountains of Israel.

Then the 7 months, cleaning the land of Israel; and the 7 years following (coinciding as the 7 years of Daniel 9:27) of burning the weapons.

Then Armageddon, includes Zechariah 14, at the end of the 7 years, which Jesus lays judgement on those armies.   And then all of the Jews gathered back to the land of Israel, none remaining in the nations.

Then the millennium.

Then the final rebellion of the nations, including the former Gog-Magog nations, in Revelation 20:8-9.    Surrounding, but not entering the camp - the nation of Israel.

 

 

 

Hi douggg

The matter of whether the Gog and Magog war, whether it be before the 1000 years or after can be settled in seconds;

Revelation 20:7   And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Revelation 20:8   And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Revelation 20:9   And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Revelation 20:10   And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

 

 

[douggg]

1 hour ago, Sister said:

Hi douggg

The matter of whether the Gog and Magog war, whether it be before the 1000 years or after can be settled in seconds;

Those verses indicate involvement by the Gog/Magog nations in the post millennium event.    But they do not support the Ezekiel 38-39 event as being at that time.

Edited March 11, 2020 by douggg

[iamlamad]

On 2/8/2020 at 2:22 PM, Charlie744 said:

I am sure this particular topic has been discussed in the past, but because I am a newbie I would kindly ask if I could get your current thoughts.... I am currently working on chapter 11 so I have run through the first 10.... 

Would you please comment on the following:

1) Would you please tell me what the 2300 mornings and evenings directly refers or relates to? What will be completed or accomplished at the end of this time period?

2) This may be addressed in your response to #1 above, but if not, what is the basis for your time period - days, years, 1/2 days, etc.?

Please try and keep this as short as possible (dumb it down for me as I am not as "equipped" as those folks that have been responding to my Daniel 11 posts).

If not, no problem and thank all of you in advance, Charlie 

Charlie, most people pull those 2300 days out of context. IN CONTEXT they are referring to the time it took from when Antiochus sacrificed a pig on the altar and desecrated the temple (and stopped the daily sacrifices) to the time when the temple was cleansed. This time frame has NOTHING to do with the future. 

[iamlamad]

15 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi douggg

The matter of whether the Gog and Magog war, whether it be before the 1000 years or after can be settled in seconds;

Revelation 20:7   And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Revelation 20:8   And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Revelation 20:9   And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Revelation 20:10   And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The confusion comes because there will be TWO wars that could be called the Gog / Magog war. You are right: this one comes after the 1000 years. But the Ezekiel 38 war will come before the 1000 years.

[Charlie744]

12 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

The confusion comes because there will be TWO wars that could be called the Gog / Magog war. You are right: this one comes after the 1000 years. But the Ezekiel 38 war will come before the 1000 years.

Thanks for the reply!  Once again, I have thoroughly confused why many / most contend the 2300 days does not apply to the Messiah.  God is using Daniel to write / prophesize about Him.... nothing is more important..... and although chapters 11 and 12 are far in the future (also includes times after crucifixion), there is so much information God is trying to reveal about the coming Messiah -- we keep trying to pin or match many of these very enigmatic verses to some very insignificant actors like an "Antiochus". The chapters of Daniel move from the historical to the spiritual yet we continue to try and match the spiritual interpretations to man's actors or events.  The interpretative approach must match the two very different meanings or messages it is meant to reveal. I believe everyone can agree the chapters show a transition from historical to spiritual or symbolic, yet we do not change our method of interpretation - continue to look for a man made event or actor that seems to fit the "spiritual" event.  Example: the SDA contend the 2300 days really means 2300 years and it represents a period from the start of Daniel's 70 weeks (since they can not identify any other beginning time) and then ends at or around 1844 - where there is / was a spiritual cleansing of the sanctuary.... This is a perfect example of trying to come up with a physical / historical / man's event in history with a verse in Daniel that is clearly a"spiritual one ".  In this case, the spiritual message belongs to the near future of Daniel when the Messiah will come and He will cleanse the Temple / Sanctuary.  There are so many folks that insist there will be a need for another Temple and therefore a cleansing of that Temple along with the continuation of the sacrificial system.

The Messiah has ALREADY addressed the complete sacrificial system including the need for a physical Temple / Sanctuary, sacrificing Lambs, the continuation of the Aaronic priest system, etc. HE has completed ALL the requirements of that system which were only meant to point to Him in the first place. There is only ONE capable of cleansing the Sanctuary - the Messiah! The 2300 days and evenings prophecy applies to HIM and only HIM....

Sorry for the long winded response.... Charlie 

 

[Sister]

7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The confusion comes because there will be TWO wars that could be called the Gog / Magog war. You are right: this one comes after the 1000 years. But the Ezekiel 38 war will come before the 1000 years.

iamlamad

Many cannot conceive the thought that God can prophesy beyond the thousand year rest.  Many cannot tell the difference between the two wars. 

What does it mean to be brought back from the sword?  It means to be delivered of war.  Israel is not delivered from war until Jesus returns.  If we know our scriptures and know the truth of what is written, there is going to be a big war there in Israel before the 2nd Coming.  Jesus even told us about it.  Troops are coming into Jerusalem to kill, destroy and wreak havoc, and there are hundreds of verses throughout the scriptures referring to this in the end times tribulation.

 

  Ezekiel 38:8   After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

What does it mean that the mountains of Israel have been always waste?

It does not mean that the land has always been a physical waste but a spiritual waste.  A dry land devoid of truth, a desolation.  Not only Israel but the whole world.

Therefore these scriptures in Ezekiel refer to a time "after" Israel's rescue by Christ.  The land that is brought back from the sword (war).  A land that has been living in peace for a 1000 years.  That will not happen until after the 2nd Coming because Israel today is always at the threat of war just like any other nation, which is why they have soldiers at the check points and on the boundaries.  There will be no need for that during the 1000 years.

 

 Ezekiel 38:11   And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

  Ezekiel 38:12   To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

[douggg]

6 hours ago, Sister said:

Therefore these scriptures in Ezekiel refer to a time "after" Israel's rescue by Christ. 

I don't see the 7 months of burying the bodies in the land of Israel, and the 7 years of burning the weapons in Ezekiel 39 - as taking place in the post millennium event in Revelation 20.      There is not a reason for the cleansing of the land and the 7 years burning the weapons to happen, post millennium, as following the Revelation 20 event, earth and its heaven will be destroyed (implied).

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

 

[Sister]

8 hours ago, douggg said:

I don't see the 7 months of burying the bodies in the land of Israel, and the 7 years of burning the weapons in Ezekiel 39 - as taking place in the post millennium event in Revelation 20.      There is not a reason for the cleansing of the land and the 7 years burning the weapons to happen, post millennium, as following the Revelation 20 event, earth and its heaven will be destroyed (implied).

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

 

Hi Douggg

We can't expect Jesus to spoon feed us when he said "seek and ye shall find". 

The Lord gives the outline of events in their order and we seek the details in between to see a fuller picture.  This is how the truth is given with clues all over the place.

For example, Rev 10:10 does happen after Rev 10:9, but not immediately, because if we understand that the Ezekiel Gog and Magog war is at the end of the 1000 years we understand that there is another 7 years until the great white throne judgement.

There may be a good reason for the cleansing of the land....so that the whole house of Israel, and the gentiles who did not follow Gog, get to witness God's final judgement on those who rebel.  This is the first time that generation has seen war and the aftermath.  Why is nobody acknowledging this?  That aftermath will be all the dead bodies strewn across the land.  Yes, God could end it all right there going straight into the judgement, but would that give all the survivors enough time to absorb what had happened?  That's the shaking in the land, the reality of rebellion and the outcome of it.  Don't forget they have not seen this before and nothing even close to it.  They will know to never take God's mercy for granted or question his ways ever again, just like we are learning today ...or will learn in the coming tribulation.  When this coming tribulation is finished, we get time to reflect, if we are accepted, so why shouldn't they?  One cannot truly appreciate good until they've witnessed the fruits of evil.  Even the angels are watching and learning.  God always shows two sides of the coin.

Anyway, all of which I have just said is my own reasoning, besides that, there are differences between the two wars, and so many clues. This coming war before the 2nd Coming has a man in charge.  God calls him the False Prophet, the Son of Perdition.  There is another man Satan will use when he is released after the thousand years, and his name is Gog.  He's not the same guy, and his kingdom (Magog) does not exist yet.  They are not of Babylon because Babylon will be no more.  They are of another kingdom that will arise.  Not a kingdom of men ruling the earth like today, but a kingdom of those who refuse to circumsize their hearts, who rebel against Christ's kingdom which is ruling, and wish to steal all the gold and silver that the kingdom possesses.  This is all taken into the kingdom at Christ's return as a lure for Gog to attack the camp of the saints. 

 

 

[douggg]

7 hours ago, Sister said:

For example, Rev 10:10 does happen after Rev 10:9, but not immediately, because if we understand that the Ezekiel Gog and Magog war is at the end of the 1000 years we understand that there is another 7 years until the great white throne judgement.

The part about there being another 7 years until the great white throne judgement does not make sense to me.

[Sister]

Hi douggg

Ok.  I understand. 

We've probably derailed this thread long enough.  It's supposed to be about the 2300 days which Daniel spoke of in chapter 8. It would be good to go back to that subject. 

 

Sorry Charlie744.  I am still waiting for us to have some good dialogue together.  I noticed you answered but your answer was in general to everyone, and not to me.  I was wondering if you saw that Jeremiah chapter 25 was referring to the last days?  I would like to talk about this chapter because I believe it holds the key to the 2300 days prophecy.