2300 days

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, Sister said:

Daniel 8:13   Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Daniel 8:14   And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

 

2300 days = 6.3 yrs.

The angel told Daniel "days".  Not months or years, but days.

This is a prophecy concerning when the sanctuary will be cleansed, which will be at Christ's 2nd Coming.  Today, God's sanctuary on earth is defiled.  It has been trampled on and the truth has been cast down.  The truth has been trodden under foot, because God's sanctuary on earth has been taken over by the enemy who is preventing the truth from being let out.  The truth is replaced with lies, and to whom?......to those who refuse to come out of Babylon - the system of the world with all it's conditioning to make us believe in many lies.  The world of delusion where everyone just accepts what's being told, and take many things for granted as truth.   If one wants to know what is true, or what is a lie, one can seek for himself and he will find, for God will always provide a way for us to know, so that we can discern the lies.  Regarding the spiritual, we have God's Word in print to guide us, and regarding things about our world - God has sent many to expose the many lies. 

We just have to realise that this world is run by Satan, the Father of lies, and his kingdom, which is this world, has deceived us on so many issues.

What I tried to show in my previous posts, is that the 2300 days has already silently begun and none even realise.  When did it begin?  It began after a big 70 year anniversary.  Jeremiah 25 holds the key.

So in the 2300 days (6.3yrs) we have delusions.  These delusions cause fear (fear of authorities, fear of war, fear of disease, fear of dying etc)  With fear, people always look to the government to implement decisive actions.  Those governments are the ones who have been slowing taking all our freedoms and rights away, and we just let them, because we believe they are there to protect us, forgetting they are serving the Father of Lies and doing his bidding.  In a deluded state driven by fear, the world has now ripened for an even bigger delusion to come our way - The Son of Perdition/the Man of Sin/the little horn revealed to us in Revelation as The False Prophet.  The 2300 days includes the lead-up to his arrival, then his arrival, the persecution of the saints, the two witnesses,  the 7 angels with the 7 plagues, and finally the 2nd Coming of Christ.  That's it in a nutshell and we have entered that phase already.

We don't even have 7 years left of anything?

In the last leg of the 2300 days (6.3yrs), we have 3.5 yrs until the coming.  The FP will be given power to rule for 3.5 yrs then that's it.  3.5 yrs of tribulation for the saints and great tribulation on the whole world. 

So what we see today on the news, and not in truth, is part of the delusion, carefully planned to do away with the current system, only to install a new one.  This current system is being stripped bare.  As many businesses will go down, many will lose jobs, and not be able to afford even the bare necessities.  CHAOS IS COMING.  Love will wax cold.  Brother against brother, every man for himself.  This will last a while.  All these luxury's we have lusted after and taken for granted will be no more available until that Man of Sin comes and offers a solution that nearly all cannot refuse.  We must refuse what he offers because he will not deliver.  The world as we now know it, and the freedoms we once had or thought we had, is already gone.  The take-over has begun.

Don't store up your goods, store up the truth and don't let anyone steal it away.

 

 

Sister, thank you very much for your response! I hope you and your family are safe and doing well under these terrible circumstances.

 I believe the Messiah has fulfilled all of His mission requirements at His first coming. And this would include the cleansing of the sanctuary. By this I do not mean the physical sanctuary since it no longer housed the Spirit of God since the time of Jeremiah. And Jesus already declared the Temple unclean - house was used as a marketplace (unclean). He was the perfect lamb sacrifice and this ended all sacrifices and the sacrificial system was no longer necessary. He was our perfect sacrifice, our perfect High Priest. His sacrifice would destroy sin for all who believed in Him- past, present and future. This would apply to His sanctuary- which is / was not confined to a physical building but now to the whole world. His new covenant would save all people in all the world ( sanctuary). His sacrifice was certainly accepted by God as He went back to heaven to be with His Father. He had come as a Prince, a Lamb, a High Priest.... He had to fulfill their individual requirements- and He did! His second coming will not be to cleanse but to conquer- He will come as a King! Hope this is clear and make some sense—- it is my belief. Thanks again and stay safe, Charlie 

[iamlamad]

On 2/8/2020 at 2:22 PM, Charlie744 said:

I am sure this particular topic has been discussed in the past, but because I am a newbie I would kindly ask if I could get your current thoughts.... I am currently working on chapter 11 so I have run through the first 10.... 

Would you please comment on the following:

1) Would you please tell me what the 2300 mornings and evenings directly refers or relates to? What will be completed or accomplished at the end of this time period?

2) This may be addressed in your response to #1 above, but if not, what is the basis for your time period - days, years, 1/2 days, etc.?

Please try and keep this as short as possible (dumb it down for me as I am not as "equipped" as those folks that have been responding to my Daniel 11 posts).

If not, no problem and thank all of you in advance, Charlie 

Charlie, it seems that everyone, or nearly everyone pulls this 2300 days out of its Antiochus Epiphanes context. This is FACT!
how does the chapter start? The ram representing DArius the Persian king. He thinks he is tough! But here comes a goat representing Alexander the Great. Alexander soundly defeats Darius of Persia and promptly dies. 

4 generals take over, splitting up the territory. In the later time of these 4 (probably down to 3 or 2) Antiochus becomes the king of the North, who fights with the king of the South, being Egypt. In due course, ROME begins breathing down Antiochus's neck so he is FURIOUS and goes to war with Israel, and especially their religion, which Antioch hates. He sacrifices a pig on the altar stopping the daily sacrifices. Daniel receives heavenly instruction that it will be 2300 days (or evening and morning sacrifices) until the temple can be cleansed.  Period and end of story. Any other theory is bogus and is pulling the 2300 days out of context.

[Charlie744]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Charlie, it seems that everyone, or nearly everyone pulls this 2300 days out of its Antiochus Epiphanes context. This is FACT!
how does the chapter start? The ram representing DArius the Persian king. He thinks he is tough! But here comes a goat representing Alexander the Great. Alexander soundly defeats Darius of Persia and promptly dies. 

4 generals take over, splitting up the territory. In the later time of these 4 (probably down to 3 or 2) Antiochus becomes the king of the North, who fights with the king of the South, being Egypt. In due course, ROME begins breathing down Antiochus's neck so he is FURIOUS and goes to war with Israel, and especially their religion, which Antioch hates. He sacrifices a pig on the altar stopping the daily sacrifices. Daniel receives heavenly instruction that it will be 2300 days (or evening and morning sacrifices) until the temple can be cleansed.  Period and end of story. Any other theory is bogus and is pulling the 2300 days out of context.

Thank you very much for your comments! First, I hope you and your family are doing well with this virus... horrible!!

Unfortunately, you do not seem to leave any other opinion re: the 2300 days... I would hope that could change somehow..

Anyway, I do see how you would accept this line of thought given the wording ( found in most bible versions). When I started trying to understand Daniel, and reading all the most accepted interpretations ( which certainly includes yours- in fact I would say your interpretation is the most accepted), I initially thought the same- and many scholars continued their interpretations with corresponding historical events especially surrounding AE! But the more I studied this and it’s relationship with earlier chapters- especially 2 and 7, it was clear it would not maintain its integrity- AE and the events post Alexander (pre- pagan Rome). They may fit but they have no purpose or meaning with the earlier verse / messages in Daniel. The little horn comes out of the 4th kingdom and that is not the period of AE. He was no king of a kingdom. He was a relatively minor yet evil actor (not important in Gods prophecy’s), and only temporarily stopped me he sacrifices in the Temple. There were many others who treated the Jews and the Temple much worse than AE. The purpose of the 2300 days is to identify the time where the Messiah would cleanse the Sanctuary. Please note this does NOT mean the physical Sanctuary- that was already corrupted and left absent of the Holy Spirit at the time of Jeremiah. The Messiah would replace the physical lamb sacrifices with His own body. He would serve as our High Priest and replace the Jewish priests in The Passover Feast. And He would be the only One who was capable of cleansing the Sanctuary. So everything regarding this final Passover Feast has been elevated from a physical event to a spiritual ons- He would be all - the Lamb, The Priest, and the Sanctuary which was NOT the building but now the entire world. He would remove all sins from all people in all the world- no longer just a physical building. The 2300 days is exactly the time period between agency His baptism and the day of the seventh Passover during Daniel’s last week (less 40 days for His required cleansing in the desert with Satan). Their is no 4th king mentioned in chapter 8 after Alexander- because Jesus would be the 4th and last King of the world- but His Kingdom was established at the time of His crucifixion but He would come as the conquering King at the end of time. If we step back or look at Daniel- especially chapters 7 onward, from a 60,000 foot view, we might see Him in these messages and realize what He is trying to reveal to us... not a history lesson about some relatively no body during an unimportant period between the 3rd and 4th kingdoms — He specifically identified 4 distinct kingdoms which identify the principle actors and periods that would lead us to the most important event in history!!  Best wishes always, Charlie 

[douggg]

On 3/13/2020 at 5:38 PM, Charlie744 said:

The 2300 evenings and mornings can only be tied to one thing - the morning and evening daily sacrifices. This will be ended by the coming Messiah when He is the perfect sacrifice.

Yes, the daily sacrifices.    2300 days from the beginning point of the daily sacrifice.      Well, historically began when the second temple was built, albeit stopped for a while during Antiochus's time.      So the daily sacrifice had been going on for decades - a lot more than 2300 days before Jesus was crucified.     So fitting the 2300 days to Jesus's first coming is not a fit, because of the length of time the daily sacrifice has been going on.

 

The daily sacrifice associate the 2300 days as end times.    The transgression of desolation to take part during the 2300 days has to be end times as well.

And the transgression of desolation act - Paul indicates as not yet happened in his day - in 2Thessalonians2:4.    It is future.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

There are three parts to the time of the end vision:

1. The daily sacrifice begins initiating the 2300 days.

2. The transgression of desolation.  (indicated by Paul as future of his writing)

3.  The cleansing of the temple of the things that defile it by the transgression of desolation.  (the removal of the little horn person).

 

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

 

The 2300 days, the transgression of desolation, the removal of the little horn person all can fit within the time of the end events.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by douggg

[Charlie744]

8 hours ago, douggg said:

Yes, the daily sacrifices.    2300 days from the beginning point of the daily sacrifice.      Well, historically began when the second temple was built, albeit stopped for a while during Antiochus's time.      So the daily sacrifice had been going on for decades - a lot more than 2300 days before Jesus was crucified.     So fitting the 2300 days to Jesus's first coming is not a fit, because of the length of time the daily sacrifice has been going on.

 

The daily sacrifice associate the 2300 days as end times.    The transgression of desolation to take part during the 2300 days has to be end times as well.

And the transgression of desolation act - Paul indicates as not yet happened in his day - in 2Thessalonians2:4.    It is future.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

There are three parts to the time of the end vision:

1. The daily sacrifice begins initiating the 2300 days.

2. The transgression of desolation.  (indicated by Paul as future of his writing)

3.  The cleansing of the temple of the things that defile it by the transgression of desolation.  (the removal of the little horn person).

 

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

 

The 2300 days, the transgression of desolation, the removal of the little horn person all can fit within the time of the end events.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you very much for your comments and I hope everyone is well with this terrible virus!

 I believe we are viewing/ seeing Daniel very differently. One of the most important differences is that I do not understand how one can interpret “he” in 9:27 as anyone other than the Messiah. Chapter 9 is riddled with the new covenant message from / provided by the Messiah. Within the final week of Daniel’s 70 week prophecy there are a series of accomplishments by the Messiah- 9:24 ( 6 things). No one other than God has ever or could enter into a covenant with His people. No gap theory since the 490 years represents 1 continuous period of 3 separate sections- each has their own requirements to complete- Daniel’s 70 weeks is without a break- it makes no sense and was promoted by the Jesuits to combat the then long believed understanding that the pope / papacy was tha little horn. This was promoted at the time of the reformation. The “prince” is the Messiah not an anti- Christ... It is He that will be “cut-off in the midst of the last week ( 7 years) of Daniel’s 70 weeks. There is so much misinterpretation out there and has not changed for so long- everyone is simply repeating the same theory/ misinformation over and over again! God is not giving His prophecy’s in Daniel only to talk about an evil actor like AE or some supernatural actor some 2000 years in the future- Big picture- He is interested in revealing the most important event ever- His coming and those things that are  going to come (little horn) that can and would turn His people away from His Plan of Salvation. Hope this makes sense, and best wishes, Charlie 

[douggg]

3 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

 I believe we are viewing/ seeing Daniel very differently. One of the most important differences is that I do not understand how one can interpret “he” in 9:27 as anyone other than the Messiah. Chapter 9 is riddled with the new covenant message from / provided by the Messiah.

The little horn person challenges the Prince of princes, Daniel 8:25.

 

Daniel 8 - the little horn person, stops the daily sacrifice, challenges the Prince of princes.

Daniel 9 - "he" causes the daily sacrifice to cease to the end of the (70th) week.

 

The little horn person, time of the end vision  = the "he" in Daniel 9:27.     Who, at the time of the end, challenges the Prince of princes - Jesus.

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

What I don't understand is how anyone can interpret the Prince of princes in Daniel 8:25 as anyone but Jesus.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by douggg

[Charlie744]

2 minutes ago, douggg said:

The little horn person challenges the Prince of princes, Daniel 8:25.

 

Daniel 8 - the little horn person, stops the daily sacrifice, challenges the Prince of princes.

Daniel 9 - "he" causes the daily sacrifice to cease to the end of the (70th) week.

 

The little horn person, time of the end vision  = the "he" in Daniel 9:27.     Who, at the time of the end, challenges the Prince of princes - Jesus.

 

 

 

douggg, thank you for your comment! 

I do understand that your opinion agrees with most scholars and their interpretations, but I feel quite comfortable the “he” is the Messiah and He can only make a covenant with Israel- the New Covenant is what the Messiah is meant to bring to the world. Also, the Messiah will certainly cause the sacrifices to cease- reason He came - to be the perfect sacrifice. The sacrificial system spoke about Him. It was designed to point to Him and He would eliminate the sacrificial system by His death. Daniel is prophecizing about His coming and His mission. His first coming.... He had to fulfill ALL His requirements ( all 6), and He did! No one else could perform or complete them except the Messiah. All of this was completed before the end of the vision- the vision of 490 years. Please consider and thanks, Charlie 

[douggg]

10 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I do understand that your opinion agrees with most scholars and their interpretations, but I feel quite comfortable the “he” is the Messiah and He can only make a covenant with Israel-

Charlie, when Daniel was praying in the earlier verses of Daniel 9, what covenant in Daniel 9:4 was Daniel referring to that his forefathers transgressed ?     

Do you agree that Daniel was referring to the Mt. Sinai covenant, which also required the daily sacrifice ?

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by douggg

[Charlie744]

2 minutes ago, douggg said:

Charlie, when Daniel was praying in the earlier verses of Daniel 9, what covenant in Daniel 9:4 was Daniel referring to that his forefathers transgressed ?

 

 

I will have to go back to chapter 9 but I believe it is the covenant where the Jews agreed to obey God and worship only Him. Unfortunately, they had continuously failed to honor both of these requirements. Consequently, God would have to establish a New Covenant with them. Also, it f you notice in chapter 9 there are 6 times where the covenant is mentioned ALONG with with sacred name of Elohim- I believe the 7th mention of the covenant is the “he” in 9:27. The reason God identified the Messiah as “he” and did not use His sacred name is because He knew the Jews would not recognize Him as the coming Messiah- God Himself. The Messiah was God and just as the Jews did not recognize Him, we / most interpreters also fail to recognize Him even to this day! God wants us to see Him in these Scriptures- He is revealing Himself not some evil no body like an AE or some evil actor we have created that will come some 2000 years in the future. I am so surprised that we / most can not see Him in His own prophecies. For me He is so clear to see and we have history behind us to see that He fulfilled all that He said He would do in Daniel.  I am sure He is so hurt when He sees that we still do not see Him in these Words after ALL He actually did for us- Daniel is about Him and His New Covenant with mankind. Nothing could be more important than His coming to save us with a New Covenant. Thank you very much again, Charlie 

 

[douggg]

13 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

34 minutes ago, douggg said:

 

I will have to go back to chapter 9 but I believe it is the covenant where the Jews agreed to obey God and worship only Him.

Charlie,  I agree that is the essence of the Mt. Sinai Covenant.     Suppose that the little horn person, in the time of the end,  at some point "transgressed" that covenant, stopping the daily sacrifice, and declaring himself to be God ?       Could that action not be considered the "transgression of desolation" of Daniel 8 ?

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by douggg