IN THE MIDST OF COVID19, WHAT'S NEXT IN BIBLE PROPHECY?

Michael37 · April 17, 2020

16 minutes ago, CLIVE CAMPBELL said:

Michael, I see it a little differently. Here are the 8 empires I see:

1. Egypt

2. Assyria

3. Babylon

4. Medo-Persia

5. Greece

6. Rome

7. The 10-nation Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS), headed by Russia. The Jewish Antichrist will take down 3 heads, thus leaving 7. He will reign over Israel, the 7 mountains.

8. The CIS with the Jewish Antichrist now possessed by Satan himself.

I am aware of many other views, but at the time John was shown the imagery of the seven kings, Israel from its origins had been oppressed by the first five and was under the rule of the sixth, Political Rome, which I believe to be the head that was wounded but has healed in the sense that governments continue to manifest its characteristics, the second and third reichs of Germany being prime examples given that they considered the Holy Roman Empire to be the First Reich, and given that the governments of the day strive in the same Romish ways to achieve political agility (see leopard), military supremacy (see bear), and media dominance (see lion).

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he comes, he must continue a short space.

We will have to agree to differ in our views, Clive, as yours doesn't make sense to me and mine probably escapes you.

dad2 · April 17, 2020

2 hours ago, CLIVE CAMPBELL said:

Quote

dad2, I absolutely believe that COVID-19 is the pestilence of Habakkuk 3:5 and probably Isaiah 26:20,21 is a reference to it also. See my other post on this site, "IS THE CORONAVIRUS PESTILENCE?"

The real serious plagues come in rapid succession at the very end of the final days. Such as what happens to men who received the mark of the beast. So this could not be that time, we have not even had the mark yet. As a general sign that the end is coming, we will have some pestilences, and this could be one.

Looking at Habakuk, I see this

3 God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise. 4 And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power. 5 Before him went the pestilence, and burning coals went forth at his feet.

If this section of Scripture were about the period just before the last seven years, then why do we have Him in brightness with beams of light coming from His hands, with the earth full of His praise? I do not see that now by any stretch of the imagination.

2 hours ago, CLIVE CAMPBELL said:

Re signs in the sky, there have just been 2 supermoons in the last month or so and I read today that an asteroid that NASA missed came closer than the moon. However, heaven is also one of the many figures for Israel in the Bible, so it may also refer to great signs from Israel. Just recently, Trump has brought some of those to Israel, but I also expect Israel will soon be in a regional war and expand its boundaries.

Supermoons are routine, and so are comets and asteroids. The signs in the heavens will need to be something fearful and never seen before and wondrous, and impossible to ignore. If we had the moon and sun stand still in the sky, as it talks about in the chapter in Habakuk you cited, well that would be impossible to ignore! If the moon turned blood red, that would be a shocker, and totally not predicted by cosmology. Or if a third of the stars went out...etc etc.

News items from secular Israel really doesn't cut the mustard here. The signs are for all the earth.

BeauJangles · April 17, 2020

24 minutes ago, dad2 said:

Supermoons are routine, and so are comets and asteroids. The signs in the heavens will need to be something fearful and never seen before and wondrous, and impossible to ignore. If we had the moon and sun stand still in the sky, as it talks about in the chapter in Habakuk you cited, well that would be impossible to ignore! If the moon turned blood red, that would be a shocker, and totally not predicted by cosmology. Or if a third of the stars went out...etc etc.

A very interesting post, Dad. I cover astronomy articles quite a bit over in Controversial Issues. No, they aren't exactly controversial, but when making attempts to post in General Discussion they immediately get bumped by another topic or thread. Well, that's the way it goes sometimes. You can find some that may be to your liking in the archives. Just click on the logo and it gives you the back list. Check it out if you have time. God bless.

Edited April 17, 2020 by BeauJangles

luigi · April 17, 2020

9 hours ago, BeauJangles said:

A very interesting post, Dad. I cover astronomy articles quite a bit over in Controversial Issues. No, they aren't exactly controversial, but when making attempts to post in General Discussion they immediately get bumped by another topic or thread. Well, that's the way it goes sometimes. You can find some that may be to your liking in the archives. Just click on the logo and it gives you the back list. Check it out if you have time. God bless.

Hey BeauJangles;

The Little horn in Daniel 8:10 casts heavens hosts and some of its stars to the ground and stomps all over them. Two verses later in Daniel 8:12, heavens hosts with some of its stars are explained representing truth that the little horn casts to the ground. Stars in this instance are a metaphor for the Lord's luminaries who are his angels that provide mankind with truth in regards to many things.

The signs in the heavens and on the earth which cause men's hearts to fail them with the seas and waves roaring (Luke 21:25-26), we see today having commenced in regards to environmental issues, which will progressively get worse as mankind willfully continues to disregard the truth about the damage fossil fuels and affiliated means are causing on the environment.

CLIVE CAMPBELL · April 17, 2020

11 hours ago, Michael37 said:

We will have to agree to differ in our views, Clive, as yours doesn't make sense to me and mine probably escapes you.

Michael, not that it makes much difference, since I think we won't be here during the 7-year Tribulation--but maybe we'll get to watch, I'll take 1 stab at defending my position. There are a number of figures going on in Rev 17:

³And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.

There's the 1st. The harlot, sitting on a scarlet beast--think Red army, having 7 heads and 10 horns. The harlot of course is a familiar figure for Israel throughout the Bible (e.g., Hosea) and remember that Daniel's 70th heptad of years is all about Israel. And it appears that in these last 7 years that she will be carried by an empire with 7 heads and 10 horns. This flows right out of Daniel too. It is a little horn, the Antichrist (a Jew, I believe), that will take down 3 other leaders in the 10-nation empire and then come against Israel. Your interpretation must account for these things. At some point, the Antichrist will even receive a fatal wound and, I believe, be resurrected and even possessed by Satan himself, as he possessed the dinosaur/dragon of the Garden of Eden in the first 7 years of stage-2 creation. Remember too that the woman is:

drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus.

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits

Here is a second figure of the 7 heads. Earth and land figures are one of the many figures for Israel in the Bible. Water figures are Gentile figures (Rev 17:15). So, when the Bible talks of a mountain being thrown into the sea, it is figuratively talking about Israel being cast into the Gentile sea, as it was in 66-70 AD, for example. So, here the 7 mountains on which the harlot (Israel) sits, is of course Israel. Another proof, an enactment parable: 4 Jews ascending the Mount of Transfiguration, where Moses and Elijah appear with Jesus, picturing the Jews at the end of 4 millennia ascending to Israel/Jerusalem, where the 2 witnesses will appear and then Jesus.

¹⁰and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. ¹¹The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.

Here is the 3rd figure of the 7 heads. Michael, you have 6 right: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. In John's day, 5 had fallen and the 6th existed: Rome. The 7th had not yet come. It would be the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns: the CIS, headed by the Antichrist. Once Satan actually possesses the Antichrist, the empire is called an 8th, of the 7, but different, Satanically inspired to an even greater degree.

CLIVE CAMPBELL · April 17, 2020

10 hours ago, dad2 said:

Looking at Habakuk, I see this

3 God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise. 4 And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power. 5 Before him went the pestilence, and burning coals went forth at his feet.

If this section of Scripture were about the period just before the last seven years, then why do we have Him in brightness with beams of light coming from His hands, with the earth full of His praise? I do not see that now by any stretch of the imagination.

Supermoons are routine, and so are comets and asteroids. The signs in the heavens will need to be something fearful and never seen before and wondrous, and impossible to ignore. If we had the moon and sun stand still in the sky, as it talks about in the chapter in Habakuk you cited, well that would be impossible to ignore! If the moon turned blood red, that would be a shocker, and totally not predicted by cosmology. Or if a third of the stars went out...etc etc.

News items from secular Israel really doesn't cut the mustard here. The signs are for all the earth.

dad2, re Hab 3:5, see my article in 4 parts here:

https://www.faithwriters.com/article-details.php?id=203160

Re "great signs in heaven [Israel]," they do cut the mustard, because God is going to be working especially with Israel in Daniel's 70th heptad of years, roughly 2023 to 2030. The "times of the Gentiles" will have been completed. The "fullness of the Gentiles" will have come in. If the world sees a big regional Mideast war in which Israel expands, if they see the morning and evening sacrifices start on the Temple Mount, if they see construction start on the 4th Temple (after Solomon's, Zerubbabel's and Herod's), they better repent and believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior!

CLIVE CAMPBELL · April 17, 2020

54 minutes ago, luigi said:

Hey BeauJangles;

The Little horn in Daniel 8:10 casts heavens hosts and some of its stars to the ground and stomps all over them. Two verses later in Daniel 8:12, heavens hosts with some of its stars are explained representing truth that the little horn casts to the ground. Stars in this instance are a metaphor for the Lord's luminaries who are his angels that provide mankind with truth in regards to many things.

The signs in the heavens and on the earth which cause men's hearts to fail them with the seas and waves roaring (Luke 21:25-26), we see today having commenced in regards to environmental issues, which will progressively get worse as mankind willfully continues to disregard the truth about the damage fossil fuels and affiliated means are causing on the environment.

Luigi, I think you are close to the truth about the figurative meaning of the stars or host of heaven in Daniel. Heaven is one of the many figures for Israel/Jews in the Bible and so are stars, the host of heaven. Jesus Himself of course was a Jew and He is pictured as the 7 stars, the 7 angels, messengers, to the 7 churches (Rev 1.20). It is Satan's "tail," at the end of his time, that "is sweeping away a third of the stars of heaven and is throwing them to the earth (Rev 12.4)." This is, I believe, a reference to the Holocaust, in which 6 M of 18 M Jews were killed. Many of the other thirds destroyed in Rev--e.g., trees, grass, ships--refer to the same thing.

I think that you are listening to the world too much with regards to your comments re the environment. Climate change has become a religion to the world.

luigi · April 17, 2020

24 minutes ago, CLIVE CAMPBELL said:

Luigi, I think you are close to the truth about the figurative meaning of the stars or host of heaven in Daniel. Heaven is one of the many figures for Israel/Jews in the Bible and so are stars, the host of heaven. Jesus Himself of course was a Jew and He is pictured as the 7 stars, the 7 angels, messengers, to the 7 churches (Rev 1.20). It is Satan's "tail," at the end of his time, that "is sweeping away a third of the stars of heaven and is throwing them to the earth (Rev 12.4)." This is, I believe, a reference to the Holocaust, in which 6 M of 18 M Jews were killed. Many of the other thirds destroyed in Rev--e.g., trees, grass, ships--refer to the same thing.

I think that you are listening to the world too much with regards to your comments re the environment. Climate change has become a religion to the world.

Hello Clive Campbell,

The Jews were not in heaven in the 1930's and 1940's representing the stars Satan casts to the earth in Revelation 12:4. You did, however, correctly correlate together the data about the stars in Daniel 8:10 with the stars in Revelation 12:4. The stars that Satan casts to the ground in Revelation 12:4, he does so through his agent on the earth, the little horn in Daniel 8:10. And as these stars represent truth (Dn 8:12), the stars the dragon casts to the earth represent these truths, the Lord's true illumination on mankind through His angels.

Sometime after casting the Lord's truth to the earth, the dragon, a.k.a., Satan is himself along with his false illuminators (his angels) cast to the earth whereupon he vests the beast with his power, causing the beast to ascend from the sea (Revelation 13), which is also another description for the bottomless pit in Revelation 9. Prior to the opening of the bottomless pit in Revelation 9, representing the fifth of seven woes upon the earth, the earth experiences its first four woes that appear in Revelation 8 in which one third of earth's environment is destroyed by what the Lord in Revelation 9:20-21 attributes to the love mankind has for the things his hands produce. As the things mans hands produce today are primarily produced through industry, we then recognize the woes in Revelation 8 caused by fossil fuels and affiliated means. The following three more dire woes, in which the bottomless pit being opened is first, is when the devil is cast to the earth, upon which he then vests the beast with his power, which enables the beast to rise from the sea, (a.k.a. the bottomless pit).

The signs in the heavens and on earth in which the seas are roaring and men's hearts are failing them for fear due to their recognizing worse is to come (Luke 21:25-26), correlates with the data in Revelation 8 and 9, in which one third of earth's resources are destroyed through fossil fuels and affiliated means in Revelation 8, and the new source power the dragon provides the beast in Revelation 9.

CLIVE CAMPBELL · April 17, 2020

14 minutes ago, luigi said:

The Jews were not in heaven in the 1930's and 1940's representing the stars Satan casts to the earth in Revelation 12:4.

Luigi, we can agree to disagree. In the sovereignty of God, the 1/3 of the world's Jews killed in the Holocaust even wore stars of David. Satan was sweeping them away and casting others of them to earth, another figure for Israel. So, the Holocaust accomplished 2 things for God. It was a judgment on the Jews, but also a way of returning many Jews to the historic land of Israel, from which a remnant will be saved.

My own view of the locusts of Rev 9 is 2-fold. They are Satan and the demons not active in the 120 years before Noah's 600th year, who were bound in hell in 70 AD, along with the Jews, "the synagogue of Satan," in their dispersion and final destination, hell. Satan and those demons were released from the pit, the abyss, hell, 120 years before the 6000th year (after 14 B, without macro-evolution) in 2030, so in 1910. The locusts are also a figure for the Jews who were released from their dispersion to begin returning to Palestine in greater numbers beginning in 1910. 120 is a multiple of 12, a very Jewish number. There are even 120 members in the Israeli Knesset.

Sea, by the way, is a water figure. So, it refers to Gentiles. See Rev 17.15. Thus, the 10-headed, 7-horned beast from the sea will come out of Gentile nations, as the CIS does.

luigi · April 17, 2020

3 minutes ago, CLIVE CAMPBELL said:

Luigi, we can agree to disagree. In the sovereignty of God, the 1/3 of the world's Jews killed in the Holocaust even wore stars of David. Satan was sweeping them away and casting others of them to earth, another figure for Israel. So, the Holocaust accomplished 2 things for God. It was a judgment on the Jews, but also a way of returning many Jews to the historic land of Israel, from which a remnant will be saved.

My own view of the locusts of Rev 9 is 2-fold. They are Satan and the demons not active in the 120 years before Noah's 600th year, who were bound in hell in 70 AD, along with the Jews, "the synagogue of Satan," in their dispersion and final destination, hell. Satan and those demons were released from the pit, the abyss, hell, 120 years before the 6000th year (after 14 B, without macro-evolution) in 2030, so in 1910. The locusts are also a figure for the Jews who were released from their dispersion to begin returning to Palestine in greater numbers beginning in 1910. 120 is a multiple of 12, a very Jewish number. There are even 120 members in the Israeli Knesset.

Sea, by the way, is a water figure. So, it refers to Gentiles. See Rev 17.15. Thus, the 10-headed, 7-horned beast from the sea will come out of Gentile nations, as the CIS does.

I do not wish to stray to far off topic, as to what is next in bible prophecy, but I will provide a response to your supposition in regards to the stars in Daniel 8 and Rev 12 which you believe to represent, Israel, the holocaust Jews during WWII.

True Israel are they who believe, and are not those through genealogical heritage (Romans 9:6-8).

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