Timing of the parables in Matthew 25

[abcdef]

On 4/14/2020 at 4:40 PM, iamlamad said:

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So according to your time line, the 10 virgin period is just before the Rev 19 events. Assuming that Matt 24, on your time line, is the trib and the trib is done at the 7th vial.

Does the 10 virgin time period include the 7 times trib, 3 1/2 times, or does it cover only the time between the 7th vial and the ch 19 events?

Just how long do you expect the 10 virgin time period to be? months? years? centuries? 1000's?

There is no timing given  in the 10 virgins parable, but from the story, it seems the time of the bridegroom coming is imminent. From the context, "immediately after the tribulation of those days" and comparing that with Revelation, it would be the time between the 7th vial that ends the week, and His coming in Rev. 19.  I can only guess on that time, but my guess is, around 30 days. I think it will be the time of the marriage supper.  By the way, this is not "my" timeline, I am just copying John's and Matthew's timeline.  

No, it cannot include the entire 70th week for Jesus said, "after the tribulation of those days..." It does not even include the last 3.5 years for they are the years of GT.  does it cover only the time between the 7th vial and the ch 19 events?  YES.

 

Here you say that the 10 virgin time period is between the 7th vial and the Rev 19 coming of Jesus. 

 

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Doesn't this contradict what you said when we were discussing the resurrections? If this 10 virgin passage shows a resurrection and eternal judgment of good and evil at the same time? No and no. The parable of the virgins is only about the marriage and the door being shut. There is no resurrection mentioned in Matthew 25. However, the Old Testament saints have to get to the marriage for they will be guests. Therefore I think their resurrection is AT the 7th vial. The door being shut would be at the time of the 7th vial, IMHO. 

But here you say that the bridegroom has come and the door is shut behind him the 7th vial. 

So how can the 10 virgin waiting time period be after the 7th vial if the bridegroom has come and the door has been shut at the 7th vial?

 

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There are only 2, 1 Cor 15:23-28,23-24, John 5:25-29.  Right, ONLY TWO: one for the righteous and one for damned. 

That is TOTALLY against the scriptures as seen in John 5:25-29, a complete false hood. 

Why do you believe something that is completely against 1 Cor 15:23-28,23-24.

Jesus clearly says in John that the first resurrection is Jesus v 25, and those He brings with at the resurrection vs 28-29.

The second is BOTH the evil and good.

AS long as you do not understand about the number of resurrections and who is resurrected, you won't be able to get the correct Rev timeline, 2 only resurrections.

Clearly shown in Rev 20, Jesus the first, evil and good second resurrection.

 

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Therefore, you can answer your questions yourself: ALL the righteous must fit somehow into that "first" or primary resurrection.  This is not acccording to anyone's "timeeline." somehow, even iif someone is a posttribber, those beheaded during the days of GT Must get resurrected.

Ok look,

John the Baptist was beheaded and then resurrected with Jesus. He did not wear the mark of the beast Rome and Caesar. He is living and ruling the gospel Pentecost kingdom now from heaven by his words, "Behold the Lamb of God". Those in the kingdom live by his words.

Oh, you were thinking that the trib is future, but it is not.

John says that he is in the trib in Rev 1:9.

The beast is Rome, the iron of Dan. 2, and the 4th beast of Dan. 7.

The mark of the beast is the mark of Caesar.

The time of trouble is when Israel is in the time of the 4th beast nation and the iron nation of Dan. 2.

The time of great tribulation that Jesus spoke about was after the great scattering of 70 AD, after Jerusalem was destroyed, and Rome continued the pursuit after the woman Israel (waters), into the gentile nations (wilderness).

 

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The 144,000 are seen in chapter 14 IN heaven. How did they get there?

The 144000 is symbolic of all Israel from the first resurrection when Jesus resurrected.

The multitude that no man can count (MTNMCC), is all the gentiles from the firstresurrection.

They all are seen in 96 AD with Jesus in the Rev.

 

On 4/14/2020 at 4:40 PM, iamlamad said:

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Both the church and the Old testament saints must sometime  be resurrected. It is HIGHLY unlikely both are resurrected together.  Poststrib makes it easy; just raise them all at the same time! Only that theory does not fit so many scriptures.

 

 

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As usual, the rest of your post is myth or human imagination - or both.

You will probably will think that until Israel loses at Armageddon, Jerusalem falls to Iran and Russia, the world will celebrate, and they will leave the bodies of the people of Israel in the streets for 31/2 days.

Oh, just so you know, Islam believes that 3 1/2 days after they take Jerusalem and kill Israel that Jesus will return and make everybody turn to Islam.

They will all be waiting, celebrating, believing, that they are the people of God, and that killing Israel proved that. 

But like Cain killed righteous Able their murders will not go unpunished.

They will see the resurrection happen before their eyes, we will be caught up to Jesus.

Then within the hour, the fire from heaven,  the stone strikes, the stone whose name is judgment and perdition.

A direct hit on Jerusalem that turns this planet to fire.

 

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, abcdef said:

Here you say that the 10 virgin time period is between the 7th vial and the Rev 19 coming of Jesus. 

But here you say that the bridegroom has come and the door is shut behind him the 7th vial. So how can the 10 virgin waiting time period be after the 7th vial if the bridegroom has come and the door has been shut at the 7th vial?

 

Right, ONLY TWO: one for the righteous and one for damned. 

That is TOTALLY against the scriptures as seen in John 5:25-29, a complete false hood. Why do you believe something that is completely against 1 Cor 15:23-28,23-24.  Jesus clearly says in John that the first resurrection is Jesus v 25, and those He brings with at the resurrection vs 28-29.

The second is BOTH the evil and good.  AS long as you do not understand about the number of resurrections and who is resurrected, you won't be able to get the correct Rev timeline, 2 only resurrections.  Clearly shown in Rev 20, Jesus the first, evil and good second resurrection.

I was wrong. I did not think this through. Let's think about it: they are going to the marriage, which will be in heaven BEFORE Christ returns. Therefore the door will certainly be shut at the 7th  vial.  When will there be TIME between the days of GT and the 7th vial?  Jesus said He would SHORTEN those days of GT, so they would not last the entire 42 months of authority of the Beast. Therefore there will be TIME "after the tribulation of those days" and before the 7th trumpet resurrection of the Old Testament saints.  I know, some people imagine the marriage and supper will be on earth, because what John wrote cannot possibly fit into a posttrib rapture scenario.  But John shows both the marriage and supper finished before Jesus descends. 

Therefore the marriage will be IN HEAVEN before the decent on white horses.  So the door being close must also be before the marriage. 

That is TOTALLY against the scriptures as seen in John 5:25-29, a complete false hood. Not so at all. It may be against how you READ that scripture. Jesus only tells us there will be two resurrections in John 5, but does say WHEN for either one.  All you are telling us is your understanding of these scriptures is not the way most of the church understands them. "shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."  Haven't I been saying all along there are only two resurrections: one for the righteous and one for the damned? they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life [the "first" resurrection]; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation [the "second death" resurrection]."  As you can see, this is in total agreement with the scriptures. 

 

²² For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. [It is through Christ that ANY get resurrected.]

²³ But every man in his own order [there is an order to resurrections]: Christ the firstfruits [He was the very first one under the "first" or primary or chief resurrection]; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. [ WHICH coming? Which group? I submit two comings and two groups: first the church at Christ's second coming, then 7 years later the Old Testament saints at His 3rd coming . Both groups would fit under "christ's."]

²⁴ Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.  [We should understand, Paul is giving a VERY brief summary. There will be a thousand years between the end of the "trib" and the great, white throne judgment. It will not be until after this judgment when "then cometh the end...."]

The second is BOTH the evil and good.  So please find the "good" in some verse. If you can find it, I will believe. I don't find it in Rev 20.

AS long as you do not understand about the number of resurrections  We both agree that there is only TWO. Our difference is, we disagree on the second. John 5 is very clear, so very hard to miss it (yet you still seem to): 

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; ..................("FIRST Resurrection" in Rev. 20)
they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.".......("Second Death" Resurrection" in Rev. 20)

Why is this so difficult? It is plain as day.

(Rev. 20) Jesus the first, evil and good second resurrection.  There is NOTHING in Rev. 20 about Jesus resurrection.

 

⁴ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them,[This would be the resurrected church and Old Testament saints] and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded [These are the beheaded from the days of GT] for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

(5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection.

(So those included in the first resurrection: Jesus first as you said, but NOT SHOWN HERE, then the resurrected church raised at Jesus 2nd coming, then the Old Testament saints raised on the "last day" at the 7th vial along with the beheaded plus the two Witnesses)

Next comes the 1000 year reign.

Then will come the "second death" resurrection for the damned.

This is John's order of things, both in John 5 and in Rev. DON'T CHANGE IT!

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, abcdef said:

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Therefore, you can answer your questions yourself: ALL the righteous must fit somehow into that "first" or primary resurrection.  This is not acccording to anyone's "timeeline." somehow, even iif someone is a posttribber, those beheaded during the days of GT Must get resurrected.

Ok look,

John the Baptist was beheaded and then resurrected with Jesus. He did not wear the mark of the beast Rome and Caesar. He is living and ruling the gospel Pentecost kingdom now from heaven by his words, "Behold the Lamb of God". Those in the kingdom live by his words.

Oh, you were thinking that the trib is future, but it is not.

John says that he is in the trib in Rev 1:9.

The beast is Rome, the iron of Dan. 2, and the 4th beast of Dan. 7.

The mark of the beast is the mark of Caesar.

The time of trouble is when Israel is in the time of the 4th beast nation and the iron nation of Dan. 2.

The time of great tribulation that Jesus spoke about was after the great scattering of 70 AD, after Jerusalem was destroyed, and Rome continued the pursuit after the woman Israel (waters), into the gentile nations (wilderness).

I don't know that "John the Baptist" was resurrect with Jesus. No one has written it. All we know is that "many" [not all] of the Old Testament saints arose. I rather suspect "the elders:" Adam, Mathusalah, Abraham, David, etc.  

Oh, you were thinking that the trib is future, but it is not.  John says that he is in the trib in Rev 1:9.  Sorry, wrong again. It will be the 70th week that is future. The entire church age is "tribulation" and in Rev. 7, "great tribulation." 

Sorry, the rest of your post is myth. 

[iamlamad]

13 hours ago, abcdef said:

 

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The 144,000 are seen in chapter 14 IN heaven. How did they get there?

The 144000 is symbolic of all Israel from the first resurrection when Jesus resurrected.

The multitude that no man can count (MTNMCC), is all the gentiles from the firstresurrection.

They all are seen in 96 AD with Jesus in the Rev.

 

Another classic mistake, taking something meant to be taken literally and symbolizing it. This always leads to error.  Why not just take John at His word: God is going to choose out of Israel 144,000 REAL LIVE MEN, 12,000 from each tribe as FIRSTFRUITS. (That means these are first, others will follow.) In John's first look they are sealed for their protection from the trumpet judgements (If they were symbolic  - no need to seal them) and His second look at them they are in heaven. My guess is they got RAPTURED to heaven - but John does not tell us HOW they got there. 

The multitude that no man can count (MTNMCC), is all the gentiles from the first resurrection.  Sort of right: they are the raptured church, raptured in chapter 6 just before the 6th seal and start of Wrath. They are from the "Gentile" church but some of them will be from Israel. You are right in that they were resurrected as a part of the "first" or primary or chief of resurrections: the resurrection for the righteous.  (John 5:29a & Rev. 20: 4)

Say what? 96 AD? Well, they were seen in the vision John watched in 95 AD. But timing in a vision can be of history, current time or future time. 

[abcdef]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

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I was wrong. I did not think this through. Let's think about it: they are going to the marriage, which will be in heaven BEFORE Christ returns. Therefore the door will certainly be shut at the 7th  vial.  When will there be TIME between the days of GT and the 7th vial?  Jesus said He would SHORTEN those days of GT, so they would not last the entire 42 months of authority of the Beast. Therefore there will be TIME "after the tribulation of those days" and before the 7th trumpet resurrection of the Old Testament saints.  I know, some people imagine the marriage and supper will be on earth, because what John wrote cannot possibly fit into a posttrib rapture scenario.  But John shows both the marriage and supper finished before Jesus descends. 

The marriage of the bride does not happen until after death is destroyed in Rev 20. In Rev 21:2 the bride is seen ascending from heaven, "... as a bride adorned for her husband." she was not prepared before then. The Rev 19 reference to the marriage is a prophecy of what comes after death is destroyed.

If He shortens the time of a literal 42 months, then it would not be 42 months, it would be less than 42 months. The time must be 42 months to make the prophecy true. (The 42 months is not literal, that is why the time can be shortened and still be 42 months.)

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

 

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Therefore the marriage will be IN HEAVEN before the decent on white horses.  So the door being close must also be before the marriage. 

 

The Rev 19 scene is symbolic of the gospel sword of the scriptures overcoming the sea beast Roman Empire.

See how Jesus has a sword coming out of His mouth? Symbolic.

The armies are seen in heaven, but not touching the planet earth.

Will Jesus use literal armies of men and machines to overcome His enemies? Or the gospel sword? 

See how there is a remnant, the Roman image earth beast.

Jesus already has a kingdom on planet earth, the kingdom that started on Pentecost.

A spiritual kingdom, with Jesus sitting on the eternal throne of David in the heavenly Jerusalem right now, ruling the kingdom. Heb 12:18-24.

We will be caught up to Him, but He won't be coming back to planet earth.

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

 

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That is TOTALLY against the scriptures as seen in John 5:25-29, a complete false hood. Not so at all. It may be against how you READ that scripture. Jesus only tells us there will be two resurrections in John 5, but does say WHEN for either one.  All you are telling us is your understanding of these scriptures is not the way most of the church understands them. "shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."  Haven't I been saying all along there are only two resurrections: one for the righteous and one for the damned? they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life [the "first" resurrection]; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation [the "second death" resurrection]."  As you can see, this is in total agreement with the scriptures. 

In John 5:25 Jesus says that He is the first resurrection, along with others. FIRST, FIRST, FIRST, resurrection.

In John 5:28-29, Jesus says that there is a second time that the dead hear is voice. At that second voice command "all", will "come forth". All, All, All, GOOD and EVIL.

You are trying to divide the second resurrection of the good and evil into two separate resurrections 1000 years or so apart, but this verse just doesn't say that.

Instead as just accepting that the first resurrection is Jesus and all the O.T. saints, and the second resurrection is of both good and evil, must have it divided to fit a preconceived time line.

-----

This is exactly what happens when you look at the Rev as one continual time line.

Every time someone sees an indication of a resurrection in the time line, they say, "Here's another resurrection," and end up with sometimes as many as 7 resurrections.

But there only 2, Jesus and when He comes for the kingdom. 

The resurrections shown in the Rev are either the first with all the O.T, saints, or the second for His kingdom/church. There are no more resurrections after that.

 

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

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²² For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. [It is through Christ that ANY get resurrected.]

Amen brother.

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

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²³ But every man in his own order [there is an order to resurrections]: Christ the firstfruits [He was the very first one under the "first" or primary or chief resurrection];

 

Jesus was resurrected with ALL the O.T. saints. Why would you think that only some were resurrected at that time, and other O.T. saints were not?

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

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afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. [ WHICH coming? Which group? I submit two comings and two groups: first the church at Christ's second coming, then 7 years later the Old Testament saints at His 3rd coming . Both groups would fit under "christ's."]

 

Now you have Jesus coming 3 times. He came once, and will come a second time for salvation and to get His kingdom, but that's it. Then this planet ends in fire. 

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

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²⁴ Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.  [We should understand, Paul is giving a VERY brief summary. There will be a thousand years between the end of the "trib" and the great, white throne judgment. It will not be until after this judgment when "then cometh the end...."]

 

Paul says  that there are only 2 resurrections, brief yes, but accurate. We can't add more to what Paul says, just take it literally.

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

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The second is BOTH the evil and good.  So please find the "good" in some verse. If you can find it, I will believe. I don't find it in Rev 20.

 

The scriptures don't contradict each other.

Rev 20 shows a resurrection of the dead, it is either when Jesus rose, or when all, all, all, the dead hear His voice. Jn 5:28-29

You decide.

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

 

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AS long as you do not understand about the number of resurrections  We both agree that there is only TWO. Our difference is, we disagree on the second. John 5 is very clear, so very hard to miss it (yet you still seem to): 

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; ..................("FIRST Resurrection" in Rev. 20)
they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.".......("Second Death" Resurrection" in Rev. 20)

 

 

 

The first resurrection is and always will be Jesus the first fruits.

Instead of just taking it literally, as Jesus resurrection, you must change the meaning of the first resurrection into something else.

So you change it to mean some future resurrection instead of the literal meaning.

Then you end up with more than 2 resurrections. In your case, it looks like you have 4.

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

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Why is this so difficult? It is plain as day.

(Rev. 20) Jesus the first, evil and good second resurrection.  There is NOTHING in Rev. 20 about Jesus resurrection.

 

 

The first resurrection is Jesus, why change it? So it will fit some preconceived time line?

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

 

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⁴ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them,[This would be the resurrected church and Old Testament saints] and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded [These are the beheaded from the days of GT] for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

(5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection.

 

 

Yes, all the O.T.saints. John the Baptist was an O.T. saint who was resurrected with Jesus.

John says that he was in the trib period in Rev 1:9.

The trib period is primarily Rome from the beginning of the iron until 1967.

John the Baptist and John the apostle were both in the trib/mark of the beast/Caesar period.

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

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(So those included in the first resurrection: Jesus first as you said, but NOT SHOWN HERE, then the resurrected church raised at Jesus 2nd coming, then the Old Testament saints raised on the "last day" at the 7th vial along with the beheaded plus the two Witnesses)

Everybody will be there on the last day judgment of Rev 20.

So tell me, what "last day" is Jesus referring to?

The last day of the trib. you say, or the last day at the fire from heaven.

Just because there is an earthquake doesn't prove that a resurrection has occurred. I believe that the 7th vial gives an indication of a resurrection, but not for the same reason that you do. Not because of the earthquake.

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

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Next comes the 1000 year reign.

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Then will come the "second death" resurrection for the damned.

This is John's order of things, both in John 5 and in Rev. DON'T CHANGE IT!

 

You must split the second resurrection into two resurrections 1000 years apart to make your time line work.

Add the other resurrections that you have to the 3 that you are saying happen from Rev 19 onward.

1. Jesus

2 Beginning of the trib.

3.mid trib (7th trumpet)

4. End of trib

5. End of the mill.

You have 5 resurrections.

There are only 2.

[abcdef]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

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I don't know that "John the Baptist" was resurrect with Jesus. No one has written it. All we know is that "many" [not all] of the Old Testament saints arose. I rather suspect "the elders:" Adam, Mathusalah, Abraham, David, etc.  

Why do you think that only Some of the O.T. saints were resurrected with Jesus, and not All of them?

 

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Oh, you were thinking that the trib is future, but it is not.  John says that he is in the trib in Rev 1:9.  Sorry, wrong again. It will be the 70th week that is future. The entire church age is "tribulation" and in Rev. 7, "great tribulation."

Sorry, but if John says that he is in the trib in Rev 1:9, why don't you believe him, take him literally?

 Oh, because it doesn't fit the literal 7 year time line?

But John says that he is in the trib, so it is your time line that is askew, not John's.

What is it? If the literal makes sense? But only when you want it to.

John says he is in the trib! Adjust your time line accordingly.

 

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

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Sorry, the rest of your post is myth. 

 

Time will tell.

Just look at Israel right now, Jerusalem is surrounded.

 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

The marriage of the bride does not happen until after death is destroyed in Rev 20. In Rev 21:2 the bride is seen ascending from heaven, "... as a bride adorned for her husband." she was not prepared before then. The Rev 19 reference to the marriage is a prophecy of what comes after death is destroyed.

If He shortens the time of a literal 42 months, then it would not be 42 months, it would be less than 42 months. The time must be 42 months to make the prophecy true. (The 42 months is not literal, that is why the time can be shortened and still be 42 months.)

And I am to take your word for when the marriage will be rather than John? NO THANKS, but I am going to go with John:

⁷ Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

⁹ And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

¹¹ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Jesus does not descend to earth to Armageddon until AFTER the marriage.  That makes the marraige BEFORE Armageddon.  Sorry, But "AS A" bride  is not "is" a bride. Just believe John: the marriage is right when John says the time for it has come. It is not a prophecy!

It is not the 70th week that is shortened, or the last half as in 42 months that is shortened: what is shorted in the DAYS of great tribulation that will take place DURING the last 42 months. The 42 months are iron clad, so to speak. They are God's word which cannot be changed.  OF COURSE 42 months are literal! Do we know what 42 is? Most people do. Do we know what a month is? Most people do. It is LITERAL. 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, abcdef said:

The Rev 19 scene is symbolic of the gospel sword of the scriptures overcoming the sea beast Roman Empire.

See how Jesus has a sword coming out of His mouth? Symbolic.

The armies are seen in heaven, but not touching the planet earth.

Will Jesus use literal armies of men and machines to overcome His enemies? Or the gospel sword? 

See how there is a remnant, the Roman image earth beast.

Jesus already has a kingdom on planet earth, the kingdom that started on Pentecost.

A spiritual kingdom, with Jesus sitting on the eternal throne of David in the heavenly Jerusalem right now, ruling the kingdom. Heb 12:18-24.

We will be caught up to Him, but He won't be coming back to planet earth.

The Rev 19 scene is symbolic of the gospel sword of the scriptures overcoming the sea beast Roman Empire.  The only thing symbolic in Rev. 19 is the sword in Jesus mouth - and we know that the sword means HIS WORDS. Words come from the mouth.  Who will be at Armageddon? The combined armies of the entire world.  A Jewish boy that went to heaven and came back to tell about it said that 72 nations will come against Israel. How many nations of the world have standing armies? I think it is 72 nations.. 

The armies are seen in heaven, but not touching the planet earth.  They are HEADING for earth, as seen in the next verses. 

See how there is a remnant  This "remnant" in Revelation 19 is referring to the amries of the nations. The nations are not destroyed, only the armies are destroyed. But still it is going to be a HUGE number. 

Jesus already has a kingdom on planet earth  Yes, but it is a SPIRITUAL Kingdom. The kingdom is WITHIN us.  He is coming the 3rd time to set up a PHYSICAL kingdom.

He won't be coming back to planet earth.   I wonder, do you actually READ end times scriptures? Where do you get this stuff?

Zech. 14:³ Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

⁴ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Do you see it? It is really not difficult: He is coming the second time to GET His bride, the church. He will return to heaven. (John 14). Then after the 70th week He will come yet again, His 3rd coming, WITH His church - all on white horses. 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, abcdef said:

In John 5:25 Jesus says that He is the first resurrection, along with others. FIRST, FIRST, FIRST, resurrection.

In John 5:28-29, Jesus says that there is a second time that the dead hear is voice. At that second voice command "all", will "come forth". All, All, All, GOOD and EVIL.

You are trying to divide the second resurrection of the good and evil into two separate resurrections 1000 years or so apart, but this verse just doesn't say that.

Instead as just accepting that the first resurrection is Jesus and all the O.T. saints, and the second resurrection is of both good and evil, must have it divided to fit a preconceived time line.-----

 

In John 5:25 Jesus says that He is the first resurrection  You reading something into this verse I cannot find!
²⁵ Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Can you find it?

In John 5:28-29, Jesus says that there is a second time that the dead hear is voice. At that second voice command "all", will "come forth". All, All, All, GOOD and EVIL.

⁸ Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

²⁹ And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I think you are ad libbing again. Verse 8: yes, AN hour is coming. An hour for the righteous, and another hour for the unrighteous.  This verse does not prove both at the same time.  Yes, in either case, when they hear His voice they come out of their graves - but again, not at the same time. 

What you are missing:   There are prophetic passages in the bible that cover an event in One (1) verse, and then in another passage, cover that same event in ten verses. Both are true, but in the one verse, all you get is the highlights or we could say the mountain peaks, but Nothing about what is in the valleys between the peaks. In the other case, you get details.  So WHICH passage should one go to form doctrine?  Of course to the MOST complete  narrative. In your case, you are trying to prove a doctrine from a "highlight" or summary verse when you could turn to Revelation and get DETAILS. In the details John shows us BOTH resurrections (There are only two), but also gives us DETAILS of each one: first, they will happen over 1000 years apart! Next, the first is for the righteous, the second is for the damned.  John 5 shows us both also:

 

John 5:29

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Why don't you just believe John and quit disagreeing?  Notice that the first mentions is a resurrection to LIFE, while the other is a resurrection to damnation. 

 

I wonder, can you believe John? He tells us basically the same thing in Revelation: TWO resurrections: the first for the righteous, the second for the damned. 

 

You are trying to divide the second resurrection of the good and evil into two separate resurrections 1000 years or so apart, but this verse just doesn't say that.

You are trying to make something very simple into something difficult.  There are only TWO: one for the righteous, which will include ALL the righteous over time. Then the other one. 

 

Instead as just accepting that the first resurrection is Jesus and all the O.T. saints Actually, you are right so far, but your thinking is wrong.  Jesus: "first resurrection:" 32 AD.

MANY of the saints (only a small %) that rose with Jesus: "first resurrection:"32 Ad.

The CHURCH: "first resurrection:" future. 

The 144,000 "First resurrection:" Future.

All the rest of the Old Testament saints, including the beheaded and the two witnesses: "First Resurrection:" future. 

 

I DO accept what is written!

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, abcdef said:

Why do you think that only Some of the O.T. saints were resurrected with Jesus, and not All of them?

Easy: "many" does not mean "all." See how it is used in these verses:

Mat 3:7  But when he saw many G4183 of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Did ALL of the pharisees come? No.

Mat 4:25  And there followed him great G4183 multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan. Did ALL  come? No.

Mat 7:13  Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many G4183 there be which go in thereat:  Do ALL go to destruction? No.

Mat 7:22  Many G4183 will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many G4183 wonderful works?  Was EVERY wonderful work done? No, just many.

Mat 8:11  And I say unto you, That many G4183 shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.  Will ALL come? No, just many.

Mat 8:16  When the even was come, they brought unto him many G4183 that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:  Were ALL the sick broght? No, just many.

Mat 9:10  And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many G4183 publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. Did ALL the publicans and sinners come? No.

Next, In Revelation there were only "elders" seen. 

Next, it was not "the last day."  Mary and Marty was sure the resurrection would be on the last day.