I'd like to know if Daniel 9:24-27 proves there will be a third temple

[BibleReader]

I appreciate both of your answers.  I don't think those possibilities can be ruled out.  But here's what make me think that it is unlikely there was a first century fulfillment:

1)  There is no definite article before the word "Messiah".  If there were, it would undoubtedly point to the messiah.  But since there's not, it literally means "anointed".  Even unbelievers that carried out a special purpose, like Cyrus, were called God's anointed.  (See Isaiah 45:1)  The very same word for anointed in Isaiah without the definite article appears in Daniel chapter 9.

2)  There is zero evidence that the first century disciples, or even the apostles, referred to Daniel 9:24-27 to prove the Messiah.  Why wouldn't they use it if it really were applying to Jesus time?  They were feverishly trying to prove the Messiah to the Jews back then, the resistance was strong. This would have been the greatest proof. Yet, not one of them ever used Daniel 9 as an argument as far as we know today.   

3)  The gospel writers all cited prophecies to prove Jesus was the Christ.  Yet, not one of them cited Daniel 9 as proof of the timing of Jesus birth or baptism or death.  

I'm open. Again, I don't rule out that it may have been pointing to the Messiah, but I don't think the evidence strongly supports that.  Also, there are a few things in Daniel 9:24 that have not necessarily occurred yet.  

 

[Uriah]

Hello BR

It does NOT prove a third temple. There are mis-readings of somewhat easy to mis- construe constructs in these verses. The "third temple" wold be the Millennial Temple described in Ezekiel. That would be when He returns, not before. 

Verses 24 & 25 tell us what must happen WITHIN 70 weeks. (of years). Sadly some think Jesus missed the target for these things and don't believe everything they scriptures say. So, they make up convoluted reasoning that takes away from what is written.

Like I said, there are subtle constructs in the passage that people get thrown off by. Verses 26 & 27 are like two rails of a train track. They take us forward in time and alternate from one side to another to events regarding Jesus and the figures used by Satan.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Uriah
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[WilliamL]

On 5/25/2020 at 12:49 PM, BibleReader said:

If so, what can lead us to that conclusion?  Thanks in advance.  (And I apologize for having posted this first in the Worthy Welcome section, I was a bit lost there for a moment--But now I get the purpose of that section)

I started a string on this topic, presenting first the evidence, then the essential conclusions about whether this passage was fulfilled historically, or is to be fulfilled in the End Times. No one was able to answer to the facts.

That string is found here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/245796-does-daniel-926b-27-prophesy-about-end-time-events/

Please read the first two articles in the string. They show how the evidence of the Hebrew text and history stack up against both the historical and End Times views.

For a more detailed understanding of Daniel 9:24-27, you might want to check out the 7-part blog series I wrote, which begins here:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1568-daniel-924-27-examined-part-1-verse-24/

[Diaste]

Greetings,

It's an interesting question for sure. So history or future? Does Daniel 9 refer to Jesus, the beast, a future Temple? 

In Matt 24 we are told to look to the prophet Daniel for the understanding of the 'abomination of desolation standing in the holy place'. Mark 13 says, "when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be". The common thought here is that the A of D will stand in the Holy Place where it should not be and that place is in the Temple. 

Three things are apparent:

It must be an A of D near to the time of Jesus return.

We are told to look to Daniel the prophet for understanding of the A of D.

The A of D is going to be seen in a place it should not be and that is the holy place.

There is some dispute about the identity of the 'holy place'. Is it Jerusalem? The Temple Mount? The burial site of Jesus? Some suggest it's the heart of the believer but that doesn't get any traction with me.

I feel it's more reasonable to conclude it's the holy place that was inside the Temple. The holy place was before the veiled portion of the Temple called the holy of holies. I think the Jewish audience would know without doubt the holy place referred to a section inside the Temple and what an 'appalling horror' means in reference to a thing 'standing where it should not be'.

Since we are to look to Daniel for the information on the A of D we can see that path lead from prophecy to fulfillment in Antiochus and a future occurrence from Antiochus in Daniel 12.

I don't think Daniel 9 alone leads us to the idea of a Third Temple. Taken together with Matt 24 and Mark 13 it certainly does.

 

 

[R. Hartono]

On 5/26/2020 at 2:42 AM, BibleReader said:

Thank you.  It's definitely a valid point.  

Daniel 9:27 says:  "Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering."  I understand what happens at the middle of the week according to what you're saying.  But more specifically, how does he "confirm a convenant with many for one week"?  

There has never been any 7 years Covenant between Israel and Arabs enemies as long as history showed us. Proof it if you can.

[R. Hartono]

On 5/26/2020 at 7:56 AM, BibleReader said:

 What I don't understand too well from the chart is when the construction of the temple begins and if and when the temple is destroyed. 

After the rapture of the church, God will put the hook into Israel's enemies (Gog n Magog) n slaughter them at the battle field,  1/6 will be spared to let them tell nations of the Fierce Hand of Yah, the Arab will tremble and will let the 3rd Temple be built besides the mosque.

 

[R. Hartono]

On 5/28/2020 at 5:06 PM, Diaste said:

 

In Matt 24 we are told to look to the prophet Daniel for the understanding of the 'abomination of desolation standing in the holy place'. Mark 13 says, "when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be".

AOD will be followed by massive EXODUS of the Jews from Israel which has never happen in history.

[R. Hartono]

On 5/27/2020 at 8:04 AM, Uriah said:

Hello BR

It does NOT prove a third temple. There are mis-readings of somewhat easy to mis- construe constructs in these verses. The "third temple" wold be the Millennial Temple described in Ezekiel. That would be when He returns, not before. 

 

The rebuilding of 3rd temple is written in Revelation :

Rev 11:11 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. ² But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles.

The outer court is where the dome of the rock stood.

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by R. Hartono

[Keras]

    The Third Temple – Beit HaMikdesh

Ezekiel 40,41 & 42 Ezekiel measures the future Temple and its precincts.

Ezekiel 43 to 48 Details of the Temple furnishings and the Land divisions, etc.

 

Haggai 2:6-9 In a little while, I shall shake the heavens, the earth, the sea and all the nations. I will fill this House with their treasures. This latter House will be greater than former. In this place, I shall grant prosperity and peace.

        [The Second Temple was not greater than Solomon’s Temple]

Zechariah 1:16-17 These are the words of the Lord; I have returned to Jerusalem with compassion, My House is to be rebuilt there. My cities will again brim with prosperity, once again the Lord will comfort Zion and make Jerusalem the city of His choice.

2 Thess 2:3-4 The Return of Jesus cannot come until the man doomed to destruction is revealed and enthrones himself in God’s Temple, claiming to be God.

   [What could be clearer than that? The Temple must be rebuilt before the Tribulation.]

Daniel 9:27....He will put a stop to the sacrifices and offerings, then will set up an abomination in the Holy place.

 

Malachi 3:1 I am about to send My messenger to clear a path before Me. Suddenly, the Lord, whom you seek, will come into His Temple. The messenger of the Covenant, whom you desire, will come to you.

Reference REB, NIV some verses abridged

 

Jewish Midrash sources say that the messenger is the Messiah ben Joseph, who will be the leader of the 10 tribes of Israel when they return to the Land and he will instigate the rebuilding of the Temple.  Jeremiah 30:21

Further on, it is mentioned again in Haggai 2:21, the shaking and overthrowing of kings and how the Lord will break the power of the heathen realms. As we see in verses 6-9 this happens before the rebuilding and therefore, the gathering of His people.

It is likely that the Lord will use the next prophesied event, the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, centred on the Middle East, to ‘break the power of the heathen realms’. This will enable His people, every faithful Christian, to settle into the Land of Greater Israel and build the Temple.

 

It is not possible, at present for the Jewish State of Israel to build anything on the Temple mount.

1/ They have handed control of the area to the Muslims.

2/ Any move to start construction would trigger a war.

3/ Orthodox Jews, especially Ultra Orthodox, are forbidden or dare not go onto the Mount, for fear of stepping onto the place of the Holy of Holies.

4/ Atheist Jews [half the population] are not interested or don’t want a Temple.

But this will happen:

Zechariah 6:15 Men from far away will come and work on the rebuilding of God’s Temple. This will come about if you listen to and obey your God.

Ezekiel 43:4 The glory of the Lord comes into the temple via the East gate.                                                                         

[Alive]

I am not at all a prophecy guy, but I am more and more becoming convinced (but can be unpersuaded) that Bill Salus notion of Psalm 83 is correct and that the Arab nations around Israel will attack--possibly as a result of this agreement made and endorsed by Trump--and that Israeli forces will win the day in a bigger way than  in the wars since 1947.

I also like what he projects about Damascus' destruction as a marker.

I think the EU will evolve into 10 and that the AC figure may very well come out of Greece--so I am watching for someone from there, who has some sort of aversion to women.

I also think the Temple needs to be rebuilt and that it may begin very soon.