Daughter of Women

[Sister]

9 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Secondly, I noticed that most subject lines posts have a solid circle adjacent to the title... 

Others may have a light colored star and some may not have any symbol at all.. Do you know what these mean or represent?

 Thank, Charlie 

Yes, I can see that on my screen also Charlie, but don't know what it means.

Wingnut

If we click into the prophecy section, all the threads have a big dot in front of the thread title, but the title of this thread for example is the only one that has a star in front of it.  That thread was about the fourth or fifth thread on page one, when I logged in, but I just checked and now it's moved to the top of page 1.  Someone has just answered on it.

[Revelation Man]

On 8/5/2020 at 10:29 PM, Charlie744 said:

In the Torah we find a few terms - Sons of God and Daughters of Men. However, in Daniel 11 there is a term (only found here) of the “Daughter of Womener ”.

ASSUMING this is NOT a term that might refer to a “ daughter “ of a ruler / a king, etc., can you folks offer some Biblical/Sriptural/Jewish interpretations for this very specific term? Look forward to your thoughts and thanks in advance!!

I have done an Exegesis on Daniel 11 & 12. where I name every king in Daniel 11 and how they came to power, and all the players and all the Palace Intrigue along the way. So, here is a copy and paste of my studies on that verse.

Dan. 11:17 He shall also set his face to enter with the strength of his whole kingdom, and upright ones with him; thus shall he do: and he shall give him the daughter of women, corrupting her: but she shall not stand on his side, neither be for him.

Antiochus III gave his daughter Cleopatra to Ptolemy V for a wife, but she ended up siding with Ptolemy V over her father. Blood is not always thicker than water it seems !!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, in essence this is saying Antiochus III (Not Epiphanes the IV) gave a corrupt gift (his daughter) who was probably supposed to "PLOT" against Ptolemy, but she ended up siding with her husband Ptolemy instead. 

This is not the Cleopatra of Great Fame, this was the Daughter of Antiochus III who lived in 241-187 BC. 

If anyone is interested I have done each verse and all the kings/players in the whole chapter.

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Charlie744]

RM, you probably don’t remember but you have already sent me this presentation/study some time ago (not that long ago). It is absolutely quite clear you have tremendous knowledge and talent in this field of study- and if you could prepare something like this in perhaps one of the most difficult chapters and books of the Bible, I’ll bet you could do the same in any other discipline.

But I hope you will forgive me but Daniel 11 is not about AE or the Ptolemy period and their meaningless conflicts or battles. If God wanted to write about the 3rd kingdom conflicts / battles and the most brilliant generals and strategy, He really would have selected Alexander... God could certainly have really impressed us with His prophetic abilities by telling us all about Alexander. He could easily even tell us what Alexander was contemplating before each major campaign. 

But He did not ... Alexander was in the 3rd kingdom and God really did not give too much “ink” to him in any the chapters in Daniel. There certainly would not be an expectation for Him to spend approximately 30 or more verses in 11 on some minor actors and their minor conflicts that would have NO importance to His prophecies and the coming Messiah.

Verses 11:1 to 4 address and end any further discussion of the first three kingdoms... He has provided all of the history that was necessary to get us to the most important kingdom in Daniel- the one where the Messiah would enter the world-in the 4th kingdom!

Consequently, 11:5 and on MUST no longer be interpreted on a historical basis. The actors and events that have been identified in Daniel 7: the beast, the 10 kings, the little horn and the 3 plucked up MUST now be the focus in 11... except for 12 which is definitely end times prophecy, there are no other chapters for Him to reveal these actors and what will take place during the next 2,000 years!  He would not have us wait until His second coming to reveal the players and their importance... He has provided us with the prophecies to aid us in succeeding in His Plan of Salvation. 

Chapter 11 must be interpreted in a non-historical manner- a spiritual manner. 

But I certainly understand that this “approach” goes against EVERY interpretation that has been presented over the past 2,000 years. Everyone has been trying to match these verses (actors and events) to all the history books - but I have not seen ANYONE’s interpretation of 11 that didn’t have a lot of holes in it and could not address those verses that  could not match up..(and please don’t ask me to spend hours upon hours going back into the many sites where these studies and papers were found... after reading them it became clear that NO study had been able to adequately match the verses in 11 with our history books. 

It is all about God and not a history lesson about folks in the 3rd kingdom. 

And I am smart enough to understand how this comes across to you and perhaps another 20 million who are interested in Daniel. 

After approximately 7 months trying to find an existing and accepted interpretation fits with 11 ( and this should also give us pause since there are many historical interpretations (accepted) that have some very different thoughts), I decided to mentally scrap all of the current interpretations and step back and ask myself what might God be wanting to reveal to us that would carry us over the next 2,000 years AND must include those actors identified in chapter 7, AND would integrate with the coming Messiah, His crucifixion, rejection by His people, the importance of His new covenant (spoken of by the prophets), the new church, the corruption of His church by the little horn AND those things the little horn would do against His followers, AND those things the little horn would do against God Himself (claiming to be God on earth).

ALL of these things are in the message of 11... not some history lesson about folks in the 3rd kingdom. 

I don’t expect anyone to accept this (yet), but 11 is coming along... finally.

Take care, Charlie 

 

 

 

 

[wingnut-]

11 hours ago, RevReveal said:

In this particular forum, the 1st title is identified as “Pre-Tribulation...”. To the left of this title is a specific solid dark circle... (most show this). Some also have or had a lightly shaded star (I believe my subject had this for a long time), however, I noticed the star is gone and now there is nothing showing adjacent to the title...

 

11 hours ago, Sister said:

Yes, I can see that on my screen also Charlie, but don't know what it means.

 

I understand now.  The star represents a thread you have posted in, ones with a dot means you have not posted in those threads.  The order of the threads changes by activity, so when someone posts in a thread it moves to the top of the list.

[Spock]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

RM, you probably don’t remember but you have already sent me this presentation/study some time ago (not that long ago). It is absolutely quite clear you have tremendous knowledge and talent in this field of study- and if you could prepare something like this in perhaps one of the most difficult chapters and books of the Bible, I’ll bet you could do the same in any other discipline.

But I hope you will forgive me but Daniel 11 is not about AE or the Ptolemy period and their meaningless conflicts or battles. If God wanted to write about the 3rd kingdom conflicts / battles and the most brilliant generals and strategy, He really would have selected Alexander... God could certainly have really impressed us with His prophetic abilities by telling us all about Alexander. He could easily even tell us what Alexander was contemplating before each major campaign. 

But He did not ... Alexander was in the 3rd kingdom and God really did not give too much “ink” to him in any the chapters in Daniel. There certainly would not be an expectation for Him to spend approximately 30 or more verses in 11 on some minor actors and their minor conflicts that would have NO importance to His prophecies and the coming Messiah.

Verses 11:1 to 4 address and end any further discussion of the first three kingdoms... He has provided all of the history that was necessary to get us to the most important kingdom in Daniel- the one where the Messiah would enter the world-in the 4th kingdom!

Consequently, 11:5 and on MUST no longer be interpreted on a historical basis. The actors and events that have been identified in Daniel 7: the beast, the 10 kings, the little horn and the 3 plucked up MUST now be the focus in 11... except for 12 which is definitely end times prophecy, there are no other chapters for Him to reveal these actors and what will take place during the next 2,000 years!  He would not have us wait until His second coming to reveal the players and their importance... He has provided us with the prophecies to aid us in succeeding in His Plan of Salvation. 

Chapter 11 must be interpreted in a non-historical manner- a spiritual manner. 

But I certainly understand that this “approach” goes against EVERY interpretation that has been presented over the past 2,000 years. Everyone has been trying to match these verses (actors and events) to all the history books - but I have not seen ANYONE’s interpretation of 11 that didn’t have a lot of holes in it and could not address those verses that  could not match up..(and please don’t ask me to spend hours upon hours going back into the many sites where these studies and papers were found... after reading them it became clear that NO study had been able to adequately match the verses in 11 with our history books. 

It is all about God and not a history lesson about folks in the 3rd kingdom. 

And I am smart enough to understand how this comes across to you and perhaps another 20 million who are interested in Daniel. 

After approximately 7 months trying to find an existing and accepted interpretation fits with 11 ( and this should also give us pause since there are many historical interpretations (accepted) that have some very different thoughts), I decided to mentally scrap all of the current interpretations and step back and ask myself what might God be wanting to reveal to us that would carry us over the next 2,000 years AND must include those actors identified in chapter 7, AND would integrate with the coming Messiah, His crucifixion, rejection by His people, the importance of His new covenant (spoken of by the prophets), the new church, the corruption of His church by the little horn AND those things the little horn would do against His followers, AND those things the little horn would do against God Himself (claiming to be God on earth).

ALL of these things are in the message of 11... not some history lesson about folks in the 3rd kingdom. 

I don’t expect anyone to accept this (yet), but 11 is coming along... finally.

Take care, Charlie 

 

 

 

 

Charlie,

I think maybe RM was hoping that you would Finally   “get it” (light bulb going on) after reading his Daniel 11-12 commentary a second time. ?
 

so, did you?  Reread it?  ?

[Charlie744]

Spock, it is apparent that you are sold on the “history” lesson approach, and I did mention that in my message... no problem at all, I understand completely!

I certainly will refrain from giving my thoughts on 11 or 9... 

Have a nice day, Cy

 

[wingnut-]

1 minute ago, Charlie744 said:

Spock, it is apparent that you are sold on the “history” lesson approach, and I did mention that in my message... no problem at all, I understand completely!

I certainly will refrain from giving my thoughts on 11 or 9... 

Have a nice day, Cy

 

 

Don't hold out on me charlie, I'm still interested in your take on 11 lol.

[Charlie744]

Thank you very much but I will work out the remaining verses... post v. 33

?Best wishes, Charlie 

[wingnut-]

16 minutes ago, Spock said:

I think maybe RM was hoping that you would Finally   “get it” (light bulb going on) after reading his Daniel 11-12 commentary a second time. ?
 

so, did you?  Reread it?

 

There really is nothing to get from it brother, it follows the same model as all the others.  You get this comprehensive and detailed explanation up to the mid 30 verses and suddenly we jump two thousand years into the future for no apparent reason, at a time of no significance.  This jump occurs roughly 165-170 years before Christ even comes to the earth, and ironically jumps right past the most significant time in history to thousands of years in the future.  It just isn't sensible.

If chapter 11 is indeed historical, then wouldn't it cover all the history of it?  Where in RM's breakdown does it cover the rest of the story?  Where is the war between Marc Antony and Augustus?  Why does it not include all the events involving the history of the 4th kingdom if that is what it is about?

[Spock]

10 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Spock, it is apparent that you are sold on the “history” lesson approach, and I did mention that in my message... no problem at all, I understand completely!

I certainly will refrain from giving my thoughts on 11 or 9... 

Have a nice day, Cy

 

Charlie,

you misinterpreted my words....probably my fault, sorry.  I tried to put laughing faces next to my words hoping you would interpret that to mean something other than what you wrote......but it’s apparent, I failed you.

i was writing from RM’s perspective, not mine.  He us the one who sent you his Daniel 11 commentary twice, not me.  I actually cracked myself up over writing that....I was laughing so hard visualizing RM telling you to “reread my article....maybe it will sink in.”

But I can be silly like that.....don’t fret, most people, including my wife, don’t get my sense of humor.

Now as for your Dan 11 commentary, I told you a few days ago I was looking forward to reading it....I didn’t say that just to be kind. Bring it brother! 
 

spock waiting patiently.....