What is a "soul?"

[Retrobyter]

On 12/21/2020 at 4:07 PM, David1701 said:

"Soul", from Gen. 2, can mean "air-breathing creature", but that is far from its only usage, in other places in the Bible; so, while I agree with what you posted, from "...God the word.." onwards, there is more to it than that.

Shalom, David1701, and Happy Conception Day ("Christmas").

Nope. Sticking to Genesis 2:7, the word for "soul," "nefesh" in Hebrew, spelled "nun-segol-fei-segol-lamed," means an "air-breathing creature." Nothing more and nothing less. It describes PERFECTLY what God was doing within that verse!

Today, when someone "breathes a puff of living things into a person's nostrils," we say they are giving that someone mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. That's because the person for whom one performs this, for some reason or other, is no longer breathing on his or her own. The resuscitator steps in and breathes FOR that person until he or she can breathe on his or her own, again.

In Genesis 2:7, God is doing this FOR THE FIRST TIME for this individual that we call "Adam" from his designation as a "red-[man]." He GAVE LIFE to the man, because life is in the blood, and oxygen is in the blood! Without oxygen, the man would not be able to survive. BUT, God constructed the man made of flesh to have nostrils, sinuses, a trachea, and lungs with alveoli that have capillaries where the oxygen is chemically added to the hemoglobin in the red blood cells, and that oxygen is fed to all the cells in the man! When the oxygen is used up, it converts to carbon dioxide which is then carried from the cells, through the blood, back to the lungs, and is released into the alveoli, where the carbon dioxide is then removed by exhaling through the trachea, through the sinuses, and back out the nostrils into the air. One other necessary thing I left out: the man also has a diaphragm that flexes in two ways, first, it brings the air into the lungs for the exchange, and then it blows the air out of the lungs and back. into the air. This diaphragm is controlled by the body non-voluntarily by the nervous system of the man, but God had to first "give it a jump start," so to speak!

This was ALL designed by YHWH Elohiym, translated as "the LORD God." He built every last cell in the man, and knew just how all the various organs that He designed would work together for that man's lifetime! He was built PERFECTLY and should have lasted indefinitely, i.e., FOREVER, had not the man, and the woman made from the man, introduced sin into the world, death and decay into the world from the sin, and began the Second Law of Thermodynamics to be in effect from that moment on.

And, it won't be undone until the Messiah, acting as King on God's behalf, finally defeats death and its decay as the last enemy destroyed, which doesn't happen until AFTER He has defeated and subdued all other enemies.

Regardless how OTHERS may have used (or misused) the word "nefesh" ("soul") in other places of the TANAKH (the "Old Testament"), that's how GOD HIMSELF used the word in Genesis 2:7.

[David1701]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, David1701, and Happy Conception Day ("Christmas").

Nope. Sticking to Genesis 2:7, the word for "soul," "nefesh" in Hebrew, spelled "nun-segol-fei-segol-lamed," means an "air-breathing creature." Nothing more and nothing less. It describes PERFECTLY what God was doing within that verse!

Today, when someone "breathes a puff of living things into a person's nostrils," we say they are giving that someone mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. That's because the person for whom one performs this, for some reason or other, is no longer breathing on his or her own. The resuscitator steps in and breathes FOR that person until he or she can breathe on his or her own, again.

In Genesis 2:7, God is doing this FOR THE FIRST TIME for this individual that we call "Adam" from his designation as a "red-[man]." He GAVE LIFE to the man, because life is in the blood, and oxygen is in the blood! Without oxygen, the man would not be able to survive. BUT, God constructed the man made of flesh to have nostrils, sinuses, a trachea, and lungs with alveoli that have capillaries where the oxygen is chemically added to the hemoglobin in the red blood cells, and that oxygen is fed to all the cells in the man! When the oxygen is used up, it converts to carbon dioxide which is then carried from the cells, through the blood, back to the lungs, and is released into the alveoli, where the carbon dioxide is then removed by exhaling through the trachea, through the sinuses, and back out the nostrils into the air. One other necessary thing I left out: the man also has a diaphragm that flexes in two ways, first, it brings the air into the lungs for the exchange, and then it blows the air out of the lungs and back. into the air. This diaphragm is controlled by the body non-voluntarily by the nervous system of the man, but God had to first "give it a jump start," so to speak!

This was ALL designed by YHWH Elohiym, translated as "the LORD God." He built every last cell in the man, and knew just how all the various organs that He designed would work together for that man's lifetime! He was built PERFECTLY and should have lasted indefinitely, i.e., FOREVER, had not the man, and the woman made from the man, introduced sin into the world, death and decay into the world from the sin, and began the Second Law of Thermodynamics to be in effect from that moment on.

And, it won't be undone until the Messiah, acting as King on God's behalf, finally defeats death and its decay as the last enemy destroyed, which doesn't happen until AFTER He has defeated and subdued all other enemies.

Regardless how OTHERS may have used (or misused) the word "nefesh" ("soul") in other places of the TANAKH (the "Old Testament"), that's how GOD HIMSELF used the word in Genesis 2:7.

Thanks for the Biology lesson.  I studied Biology at school and university...

The whole of the OT is inspired by God.  As I'm sure you're aware, words often have more than one meaning.

[David1701]

18 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Neither verse states or in any way says we are without a body. Neither verse even remotely suggests the spirit that goes to be with God does so without a body. 

What "body" is Paul referencing in 2 Cor. 5? 

1 Cor. explicitly states the body buried is corruptible and mortal but it is raised incorruptible and immortal. What is the "it" of 1 Cor. 15:42? 

Yes, Jesus gave up the spirit but he did not do so absent a body. You have not proven your position or disproved mine. 

Then we are at an impasse.  I've made my case, so I'll leave it there.

[Frits]

57 minutes ago, Josheb said:

No, we have one body.

@Josheb,

If man has only a natural body and no spiritual body, with what kind of body did the Lord Jesus entered Hades to preach to the spirits?  After all, his dead body was still in the grave of Joseph of Arimathaea.

"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison" (1Pe.3:19)

 

God bless you.

(Again you haven't used a single Bible verse Josheb.)

[Frits]

13 hours ago, Josheb said:

Piles of contradictions. Then one one false accusation, followed by one scapegoat, and now one straw man. You're gonna have to change that Frits if you wish to continue. 

@Josheb

If I want to continue? What kind of question is that, do you want me to stop?
Is that the reason for your allegations of my posts, because they expose your unbiblical statements?

Here is such a unbiblical statement of yours:

"There is no Hades."
"There is no Hades."

The name Hades is Greek, it means the kingdom of death.  Some translations use the term "hell".  The terms "Hades" and "hell" are used interchangeably to refer to the kingdom of death.
According to the Lord Jesus, the rich man lifted up his eyes in Hades. He then saw father Abraham and poor Lazarus from a distant. (Luk.16:19-26)
In Revelation 20 death AND hell (Hades) are mentioned separately and are both cast into the lake of fire.  So if Hades is mentioned by the Lord Jesus, Peter and John, then it exists without any doubt.

"There is only 1 human body"

We know from the Bible that the body of the Lord Jesus was placed in a tomb when it died. (Jh.19: 40-42)
Then the apostle Peter mentions that the Lord Jesus at that time entered Hades with a spiritual body ('by the Spirit'), to preach his Gospel of salvation.  (1 Pet. 3: 18-19)
For He Himself had said to the thief on the cross, "TODAY" you will be with me in paradise.
His earthly dead body was still in the grave all this time and only rose after three days.

Regarding the total destruction of man, so to spirit, soul and body:

The destruction of man, you believe, would mean that his soul and spirit also cease to exist completely.  The punishment means that they are destroyed and disappear completely into nothing.
Biblically this is impossible, because it is taught by John in Revelation that man - so also his soul and spirit!  - undergoes an eternal destiny. In the lake of fire the anti-christ's soul still exists, because the torments of eternal punishment are felt by him.

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Rev.20:10)

But instead of being annoyed and boiling, you could have realized that these Bible verses take precedence over your unscriptural conception.  
It's now clear to me why you never quote a Bible verse on these themes, there are no verses to be found that prove your statements.

That's why you could have said, thank you Frits for the tip with these correct Bible verses, I am going to take advantage of it.
Isn't that what brothers in the Lord Jesus are for?

God bless you.

[enoob57]

10 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Thank you for your time. 

your improving on your delivery method  
this is divided out by The Scripture
1 Thess 5:23

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
KJV
so how could one combine any of the listed and remain with Scripture?

[enoob57]

We are told that the exegetical responsibility is to rightly divide the Word...
This inspired Scripture divides out body and soul and spirit which would then be a tri-part being but you say no... wouldn't that be wrongly dividing the Scripture which claim otherwise?

[enoob57]

the fact that verse does divide out by conjunctions

the parameter is 3 parts thus it cannot be two parts or one part but three as the Scripture 'It is written'

[etymology]

2 hours ago, enoob57 said:

the fact that verse does divide out by conjunctions

the parameter is 3 parts thus it cannot be two parts or one part but three as the Scripture 'It is written'

The grammatical divisibility of conjugated nouns in the greek for spirit soul and body in this verse express a fact of unity and divisibility. A conjugated noun, in this instance καί + noun, is not to emphasise a division but rather to desire a unity because the linguistic direction is a complete ἁγιάζω (sanctify) and not a divided preservation. So when speaking about spirit, soul and body from this verse in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 the meaning is wholeness. That wholeness is the whole man. The verse is speaking about God preserving the whole man, spirit, soul and body through being sanctified unto the day of the Lord. 

αυτος δε ο θεος της ειρηνης αγιασαι υμας ολοτελεις και ολοκληρον υμων το πνευμα και η ψυχη και το σωμα αμεμπτως εν τη παρουσια του κυριου ημων ιησου χριστου τηρηθειη

The semantic is intentionally to give direction to the question implied in the passage and means that the Apostle Paul was praying that God would sanctify (ἁγιάζω) the Thessalonians, spirit, soul and body. In other words a man can live and become unholy in one part of his being. One would imagine that this would be self evident, unless one held to a sinless perfection doctrine. So tripartite would be a way of saying three parts forming one whole part. It is doctrine and not linguistics that is at fault. 1 Thessalonians does indeed linguistically determine that there are three parts and one man. 

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by etymology
Changed personal pro noun

[Alive]

To me this is a very simple thing and the truth of it has almost, but not quite, gotten lost in a great many posts--posts that are like ships passing in the night.

All agree we as humans made in God's image are 'composed' (good word is that one) of three distinct parts. The point of contention is whether or not any of the three can be divided asunder (deconstructed) and still remain the 'being' that God created.