Does water baptism precede regeneration?

[Regenerated-Adult]

A born again person is a person that has been saved, redeemed, regenerated, made a new creation, and so on and so forth.  And this is a result of having a genuine experience of God, in Christian terminology it is to be baptised by the Holy Spirit.  This action of God's grace on persons is completely independent from water baptism.  Water baptism is not salvation, and the Bible doesn't anywhere say that it is.  If baptism is more multi tiered to include further acts of grace such as an "infilling" or being "filled", the Bible does not indicate this except in different interpretations of the same words used therein.  But according to some theological interpretations, the case is made that salvation without water baptism is ineffective, and hence it is possible to lose salvation.  The Bible, if it is inerrant and the words of God literally, doesn't allow for any confusion on this point anywhere, since salvation is by the HOLY SPIRIT and independent of WATER BAPTISM, though the latter ritual surely can help a person gain some virtues and not to lose their salvation.  If Jesus could lose any of the humans the Father gave unto Him, to whom they were drawn and given to the Son, then God is not God because God failed to do something He wanted to do but couldn't.

[Starise]

I attended  Baptist churches for years. Obviously to be called "Baptist" one would think Baptism is a large focus of their ministry. 

While any Baptist church I've ever attended  did indeed baptize is was seen as a secondary act to salvation or as you say regeneration. It was only a symbolic representation of what has happened inside a person. This can also be misleading because a person can fake a conversion and be baptized. This would in fact be confirming a lie to the congregation. Hopefully most who are baptized in this way understand how very important an inner conversion is.

Want to stress I have never heard it taught in any church I attended that Baptism was anything but an act of obedience to God and symbolic of salvation. In fact, any pastor worth his salt would deny a person baptism if he had any doubts as to their understanding of the process.

9 minutes ago, Regenerated-Adult said:

though the latter ritual surely can help a person gain some virtues and not to lose their salvation. 

I see this as in no way tied to keeping one's salvation. Baptists teach once saved always saved and I think scripture bears this out. 

In some churches baptism might be under emphasized in the same way that I note some churches have the Lord's table more often than others do.  Baptism is also over emphasized in other churches. There should be a balance and I think Baptism is simply a step of public confession and obedience. Even if you were baptized with only one person in attendance the value is the same.

[other one]

Baptism does not save a person, but a saved person will be baptized as soon as they can.   Why?   Because Jesus told us to; and if one has confessed Jesus as their Lord and they do not do as he has instructed us, they are not saved, they are liars.    And we are told that liars will not see heaven.

[Justin Adams]

To answer the OP. NO.

[Charlie744]

All good thoughts !

Personally, I believe the only baptism that is necessary for our salvation is being baptized in the Holy Spirit. 

To move this discussion along perhaps folks might consider the following:

1) The Temple, the animal sacrifices, the ceremonial practices were a type and shadow of things to come. The perfect example of course is the sacrifice of a blemish free lamb would represent the perfect sacrifice of the Messiah.  Was the water baptism a type and shadow of the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

2) If the water baptism was sufficient then why would God send His Holy Spirit to us on Pentecost?

3) Jesus went to the Jordan and was baptized by John. Immediately, we see a dove representing the Holy Spirit come down from heaven and rest on Him. Further, God the Father spoke from above and declared “this is my Son ....” Doesn’t this event also tell us that Jesus was also baptized in water (type and shadow) BUT it was necessary even for Him to receive the Holy Spirit? I believe it does AND it does not mean a water baptism is required but Jesus is showing us He obeyed His Father’s Laws in the physical but now it is required and necessary (after the cross) to be baptized in the Spirit- not both!

Just some thoughts on this controversial topic.

 Thanks, Charlie 

 

 

[Alive]

Think about it--what if a individual is drawn to the Lord by the Father, believes and is saved and the folks he hangs with aren't into water baptism. 6 months later, the person reads in his bible about baptism and gets baptized.

Some folks would say he isn't saved until then.

C'mon man!

[Sower]

Ah...the poor thief...

[Alive]

Us Jesus freaks back in the day were baptizing new converts....we went down to the lake or bathtub when cold.

I remember getting dunked within a day or so as I recall. It was a wonderful experience as I knew I did what my new to me Lord wanted.

Those were great days!

[Starise]

9 minutes ago, Alive said:

Think about it--what if a individual is drawn to the Lord by the Father, believes and is saved and the folks he hangs with aren't into water baptism. 6 months later, the person reads in his bible about baptism and gets baptized.

Some folks would say he isn't saved until then.

C'mon man!

I have known people who were baptized much much later. Years later. Mainly because the need for it was never preached to them. 

I think I made my ideas known on the salvation end. Hopefully no one is exposed to the false teaching that Baptism is in any way tied to salvation. There are probably some out there somewhere teaching it sadly.

[Arrabon]

10 minutes ago, Alive said:

Us Jesus freaks back in the day were baptizing new converts....we went down to the lake or bathtub when cold.

I remember getting dunked within a day or so as I recall. It was a wonderful experience as I knew I did what my new to me Lord wanted.

Those were great days!

I love this.

I was "DUNKED" on a July summer day, with many brothers and sisters coming to witness on a Saturday, in 1978.

We celebrated afterwards with soda and watermelon in the church parking lot, in the shade of several huge maple tree's.

FANTASTIC MEMORIES .