Not that many of you want to know, but some of my thoughts on free will

[missmuffet]

9 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

A man can try to fly across the gap, either without help with disastrous results or with a flying device....say a jet pack. So limitations are not so strict.

A man can even try to save himself...again with disastrous results.  The choice is not the problem the consequences are

But WHY you would want to do that...is another question

I agree. People can do some stupid things. It is all about the consequences of our actions. 

[missmuffet]

3 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

You are free to make any choice you want.  But you are not free from the consequences of those choices.

But I have to disagree, we often want things we do not choose to pursue.  As Man I am attracted to many women. As a married Christian man I choose to be faithful. As an Italian man I have a great weakness for sausage of all kinds, but as an older man I do not eat them as they are bad for me.  As a married man I often want to withhold some truths from my wife, knowing that she will catch me up short on them, but as a Christian man I try not to. (Success is variable on this one  )

All through life we are faced with a dichotomy of choices. Will we do what God wants, or will we do what our flesh wants. It is a constant battle of freewill and choices, and priorities. It is not a matter of what we want, its a matter of what we want MORE. To please God or please ourselves.

2nd Corinthians 10: 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not [a]carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.

Jonah was free to run away from Ninevah, but he was not free from the consequences of the choice. He could have continued to resist God and died in that fish's belly.  But he finally decided that God's deal was better. and even still he did it grudgingly and was mad when those darn Ninevites repented. But the point is  he decided what was more important to him, and based on that  he made his choice. To live instead of to die.

So Jonah we free to do choose to do what he wanted

He was able to do it

And he did it.

God will straighten the path, open all the doors but it is still up to us to walk that path, or walk another and face the consequences

You are Italian. Are you Catholic?

[Dennis1209]

Interesting theological thoughts, but my thoughts and perspective differ. I think everything the Lord does is 100%. The way I'm interpreting your post is; we could be partially robotically programmed or predestined. Omniscience, knowing the beginning from the end is not predestination.

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. [emphasis mine]. All means everyone has a free will choice to accept or reject, there's no middle ground or on the fence. 

Humanities problem is sin and the human condition and heart. Love, or anything else that is forced or programmed is not love or free will. Paul doesn't say anything about jumping out of a plane @ 30,000 feet and trying to fly but, moving mountains seems to be a tad harder.

1 Corinthians 13:2 (KJV) And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Satan is currently restricted from what he wants to do by the Holy Spirit. As Christians, our "wants" changed when we accepted the Lord as our Savior. Speaking of restrictions and wants, the below verse is interesting from 4,000 years ago, and today.

Genesis 11:6 (KJV) And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. [Emphasis mine].

There's a whole lot of "Babylon" going on in Revelation, and leading up to it... Good topic.

[Arrabon]

@Omegaman 3.0

If your theory is correct, then why all the warnings in the bible about sinning and loosing our salvation.

I'd rather believe in free-will simply because I do have free-will, and as a Christian I can sin and walk away from God whenever I want to.

I'm not a robot and God doesn't want robots.

I loved my mom and dad and sister and no one forced me to. 

They earned my love by being loving, and I stayed in their life as long as they were.

My God is a loving God who takes care of me and provides because He loves me and He doesn't have to force me to do anything.

I choose to love Him on my own. I choose to honor His commands and do the best I can because Jesus bled for me and died for me, and I'm grateful with all my heart - FREE-WILL, and PRAISE GOD IT IS FREE TO CHOOSE .

Why would I need to be "Forced" not having free-will.

Your theory doesn't doesn't even make any sense to me.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Arrabon

[Riverwalker]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

You are Italian. Are you Catholic?

I grew up catholic, and I still have a fondness for it my baby bones, but no, I am not catholic, just your average run of the mill bible believing non denominational Christian.

Christianity has no denominations, only people do

[missmuffet]

46 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

I grew up catholic, and I still have a fondness for it my baby bones, but no, I am not catholic, just your average run of the mill bible believing non denominational Christian.

Christianity has no denominations, only people do

Thank you for answering my question. 

[DeighAnn]

I think of it this way. 

There is a beautiful mansion, 'Top of the Top of the Line' and it is, in all amenities, 'status and cash' don't matter.  One day your friend starts talking about it and next thing you know you hear the management is offering rooms for free, forever and you have been reading all about it and this is for you, the only caveat is you must abide by the rules of the house. The rules just seem super simple  -  no loud noises, no pets, no parties.  Sure it kinda goes against your natural way of living, but you are ready for that change, AND YOU just love the place, and you've read enough info on it,  you pretty much understand the ins and outs and you are in.  Sign that contract and NOW THAT PROMISE is yours, that gift of free room and board FOREVER is yours. THIS IS a promise that will never be broken or changed in any way, at least not by management.  Management is solid.  You can count on everything they say as being true.  

SO, you sign the contract and move in.  BUT after a while you get to really want to start playing the stereo loud, and to have an animal and to have a party.  Soon you forget the contract and one day you have 400 cats and 75 dogs and are cranking your stereo non stop.    


DOES MANAGEMENT HAVE TO SPEND ETERNITY HONORING THAT PROMISE, free room and board when every decision you have chosen since moving in, goes against ALL the rules?  DO you really anyhow, you have been  ASSURED that the CONTRACT says NO MATTER WHAT YOU won't ever be kicked out anyhow.  Why try and follow rules you don't really like if they can't do nothing.  

IF ONLY THERE WERE SOME 'IFS' IN THOSE RULES cause if there were there would be  no neighbor praying you would get run over by a bus on the way home just so they could sleep at night.   



Some will say YOU NEVER REALLY MOVED IN, so you never really move out, HUH?
Some will say  YOU WOULD HAVE never moved in IF MANAGEMENT DIDN'T MAKE YOU.   
Some will say you will never get kicked out because YOU REALLY wanted to live there in the beginning and since management let you move in, THEY CAN NEVER MAKE YOU LEAVE. 
Some will say SINCE YOU MOVED IN, Control of your entire life now sits squarely on MANAGEMENT, and THEY WILL BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING "you" from now on and so you will never want to leave. 

YES!!!  MANAGEMENT  ONLY  will be held responsible and giving an account of

'HOW well THEY made YOU do'  it's no longer about HOW WELL YOU DO

And your rewards will be based NOT ON WHO YOU WERE, but how GOOD management WAS to you.  

AND THE BIGGEST AND MOST IMPORTANT RULE OF ALL IS

don't EVER work around the PLACE
Never ever,  with the THOUGHT
that you 'trying to keep it clean' HAS ANYTHING to do with the mansion or the invite

DON'T THINK IT, make sure you are always aware of it, don't let other people think it, stop everyone who looks like they might think it, in any way shape or form

(NOT that ARE or that they WOULD, never having BEEN under the law,NEVER even HAD THE THOUGHT that doing their part would be 'looked upon' like they were trying to work for something they had received.  SURE there may have been some people for the first 46 or 47 years who would have had that mind set, BUT NO ONE HAS been under the law for 2000 years SO IT IS JUST BIZZARE that some would think others would.  It just doesn't occur to someone under GRACE.  When anyone under GRACE thinks 'works', they are thinking I LOVE GOD and want to do what I can so that HIS WILL will be fulfilled.  I want to become more like Him.  I want to try to help others who are seeking Him.)

 

[Starise]

On 3/14/2021 at 7:57 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

ummary:
You can choose what you want,
 You cannot choose what to want,
 You have limited power to make your choices effective.

 

A choice to trust in something greater than us  when we  can't achieve the fruition of it ourselves is a wise choice if we are talking about God Almighty Yahweh. We should trust Him to give us what we need which is really what we want because He made us and He knows the answer to that better than we do. What we often think we want would end in total disaster if we had it.

" Thy will be done".

[Willa]

I tend to think of it all as a giant chess game.  God is the master player and has a countermove for any move we could dream up.  He will always win.  But he gives us the choice to make any move we wish.  He may even set us up to severely limit our choices.  He may guide us like He did Jonah.  

[BeyondET]

28 minutes ago, Willa said:

I tend to think of it all as a giant chess game.  God is the master player and has a countermove for any move we could dream up.  He will always win.  But he gives us the choice to make any move we wish.  He may even set us up to severely limit our choices.  He may guide us like He did Jonah.  

I liked the post Willa, nice explanation.

Proverbs 11:14
Where there is no guidance the people fall,
But in abundance of counselors there is victory.