Futurism

[Your closest friendnt]

24 minutes ago, Josheb said:

lol! Sure, I'm sure. I read God's word and I believe exactly as written.  You're not disproving what I posted and you're still not dealing with the Luke 18 text. 

 

So we're done here. 

People can read and think for themselves, you cannot tell them how to think they know Abraham was chosen by God and Issac was chosen and Jacob and all his house the twelve tribes.  

And he told them when you die you will go to your ancestor and your children will be gathered to you and wait for me there.

And David said that the Lord will not abandon me down there I will  be waiting for him.

Jesus found faith in the place of the dead but when he came back to the earth he found them wanting to bury him.

No one believed in him.

Jesus said that when he returned from the place of the dead he knew that he want find anyone waiting for him. 

No one, he said it before it Happened, his words came to pass. 

He found them in their unbelief, preparing them selves for his burial, getting ready to put him in the ground "for dust to dust".

David he disagree with them, and he left enough for them to know that Jesus Christ body will not see corruption. 

Their bodies will see corruption but Jesus Christ body will not see corruption. 

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

Huge red herring. 

At no time have I this is how anyone or everyone must think and neither did I impose my personal views or personal opinions. I posted scripture!!! So far, not a single word I've posted has been proven incorrect. Lots of protest, no proof. Every single claim I posted is objectively observable in the Bible text itself AND anyone and everyone reading these posts can verify that fact anytime anywhere simply by opening their Bible and reading what is written. They can also just as objectively observe you have 1) repeatedly ignored the surrounding text and 2) jumped around and pasted disparate passages into the one verse in complete disregard to the surrounding text. 

And now the topic has been abandoned altogether in favor of a baselessly accusatory red herring. 

 

 

Will Jesus find faith when he returns? Yes. How can I say that? Because the question is a rhetorical question gleaned from a parable and in the parable the widow is faithful. I can answer the question in the affirmative because the reason for his return is explicitly stated: he's coming to meet out justice for the elect who cry out to God day and night - thereby indicating their faith..... because according to Hebrews those who pray to God must first believe He exists and according to Paul in Romans the elect are those of faith. Those without faith are not the elect - they are never the elect. Furthermore, the larger narrative is a repeated juxtaposition by Christ of faithless Jews and faithful converts. The Luke narrative ends with, "everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away, but these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence." 

Jesus will find faith when he returns because he is returning for his elect. 

And if the best dissent that can be mustered is "you can't tell folks how to think" then I'll  le that argument stand for all its worth. We'll have to agree to disagree, though, because red herrings are worthless. 

And the claim Jesus didn't find belief upon returning from the grave is also incorrect. Two women came to the tomb to anoint his corpse and upon learning he was no longer there..... but had instead risen..... they believed. So profound was their belief they ran to tell others. Upon hearing their report the disciples thought it nonsense - all but one of them. Peter, wondering about what he'd heard, ran back to verify their report. That same day two others gave this report: 

Luke 24:17-24
"....they stood still, looking sad.  One of them, named Cleopas, answered and said to him, 'Are You the only one visiting Jerusalem and unaware of the things which have happened here in these days?'  And he said to them, 'What things?' And they said to him, 'The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word in the sight of God and all the people,  and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to the sentence of death, and crucified him.  But we were hoping that it was he who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, it is the third day since these things happened.  But also some women among us amazed us. When they were at the tomb early in the morning,  and did not find his body, they came, saying that they had also seen a vision of angels who said that he was alive. Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just exactly as the women also had said; but him they did not see." 

They believed. They did not understand. 

So Jesus explained it to them. 

Luke 24:25-27
"And he said to them, 'O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into his glory?' Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, he explained to them the things concerning himself in all the Scriptures."

So even if we were to say his resurrection was the "return" he was referencing in Like 18:8 you've still got it wrong. They were slow of heart to believe, not unbelieving. Big difference. Jesus did find faith, but he also found a profound lack if understanding. Big difference between those two conditions, too. A lack of knowledge should not be conflated with a lack of faith. 

Mark then tells us Cleopas and his fellow traveler were not believed. Jesus appeared and reprimanded them: 

Mark 16:14
"Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and he reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen him after he had risen."

Some believed. Most did not. Among a few he did find faith. You got it incorrect.

Finally you begin to come around.

Little by little you will correct your self. 

You will reconcile with the scriptures. 

Jesus just before he enter Jerusalem he is said something not about his elect but about God's elect. 

It is all about God's elect, it's all about the people of God and we are still in the OT.

We are not in the NT.

This is the question: Why the people of God in the OT cry and weep and mourn? 

Jesus on the sermon on the mountain said: bless are those who cry and mourn because they will be comforted. 

When someone cries and mourns, is it not when he is separated and cannot be with someone he wanted to be with? 

This is why the chosen people of God from the descendants of Abraham cried and mourned because they are separated from their God.

In the OT when the people die they were separated from their God.

 

[Your closest friendnt]

It's a good post you identify the issues and you make your argument which can be discussed. 

And the most important you keep the post clear from pollution.

It's a clean post BRAVO 

[Diaste]

On 3/20/2021 at 2:40 PM, Arrabon said:

Why does any of these differing opinions matter, if we are prepared for Christ's second coming - THE "RAPTURE."

I think it matters as preparation in wisdom and understanding should we be living witnesses. 

It's also kind of telling in that there are many voices, very few agree, and we are far from unity in the Spirit. That really matters.

[Diaste]

"Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened." - Matt 24:34

"Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. " - Mark 13:30

"Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened." - Luke 21:32

Three witnesses. Word for word. This cannot apply to a past generation as all those things did not yet come to pass. It can only apply to a future generation. That's simple enough.

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." - Matt 24:14

"And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all the nations." - Mark 13:10

Even a cursory exam of the above shows the Gospel must be preached to all the inhabited earth before the end comes. It is said there are several tribes inhabiting dense jungles that have not yet heard the Gospel. Looks like this has not yet come to pass yet either. 

"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand)"                                                                                                                    - Matt 24:15

"So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand)," - Mark 13:14

"So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God." - 2 Thess 2:4

This wasn't the A of D in 167 BC. There was no event as described as above in 70 AD as the Temple was burned and razed. This can't be the living temple of God made up of the body corporate and individual as the man of sin cannot posses that which the Holy Spirit inhabits. Both Daniel and Jewish History record the A of D, Jewish history in great detail. The A of D as prophesied by Jesus is yet to come.

All these things have not yet occurred in a single generation, the Gospel has not yet been preached to all the inhabited earth, the A of D has not yet been placed where it ought not to be, and the man of sin did not yet ascend the Temple and declare himself to be God.

Taken together the arguments against futurism are invalid.

Maybe people don't like it, I get that. Facts is facts.

[Uriah]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

"Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened." - Matt 24:34

"Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. " - Mark 13:30

"Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened." - Luke 21:32

Three witnesses. Word for word. This cannot apply to a past generation as all those things did not yet come to pass. It can only apply to a future generation. That's simple enough.

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." - Matt 24:14

"And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all the nations." - Mark 13:10

Even a cursory exam of the above shows the Gospel must be preached to all the inhabited earth before the end comes. It is said there are several tribes inhabiting dense jungles that have not yet heard the Gospel. Looks like this has not yet come to pass yet either. 

"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand)"                                                                                                                    - Matt 24:15

"So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand)," - Mark 13:14

"So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God." - 2 Thess 2:4

This wasn't the A of D in 167 BC. There was no event as described as above in 70 AD as the Temple was burned and razed. This can't be the living temple of God made up of the body corporate and individual as the man of sin cannot posses that which the Holy Spirit inhabits. Both Daniel and Jewish History record the A of D, Jewish history in great detail. The A of D as prophesied by Jesus is yet to come.

All these things have not yet occurred in a single generation, the Gospel has not yet been preached to all the inhabited earth, the A of D has not yet been placed where it ought not to be, and the man of sin did not yet ascend the Temple and declare himself to be God.

Taken together the arguments against futurism are invalid.

Maybe people don't like it, I get that. Facts is facts.

YIKES!!!

You are thinking JESUS is a futurist???

Wait till the a-mils get a hold of Him....(hahaha)

[Justin Adams]

Maybe read Josephus. Where the vases of dead birds sacrificed to pagan gods were dumped in the entrances to synagogues etc. And the abominations that occurred in the actual temple when the Jews were raping and pillaging and murdering each other. Then the privations of all manner of horrific acts were performed.. lots of stuff.
Oh and per Matt 24, the Christians heeded that warning by Yeshua and escaped, but their fellows that were performing the Passover that year were all killed. 

https://josephusonline.weebly.com/jewish-war.html#

It is a heavy read...

[Alive]

This is a good debate, but there are several that are making it personal with personal insults slung that are simply not necessary in making points of debate.

C'mon folks--you can do this. You know the difference. THIS--is the last warning.

Stick to the topic and not the persons.

[Heleadethme]

11 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

People can read and think for themselves, you cannot tell them how to think they know Abraham was chosen by God and Issac was chosen and Jacob and all his house the twelve tribes.  

And he told them when you die you will go to your ancestor and your children will be gathered to you and wait for me there.

And David said that the Lord will not abandon me down there I will  be waiting for him.

Jesus found faith in the place of the dead but when he came back to the earth he found them wanting to bury him.

No one believed in him.

Jesus said that when he returned from the place of the dead he knew that he want find anyone waiting for him. 

No one, he said it before it Happened, his words came to pass. 

He found them in their unbelief, preparing them selves for his burial, getting ready to put him in the ground "for dust to dust".

David he disagree with them, and he left enough for them to know that Jesus Christ body will not see corruption. 

Their bodies will see corruption but Jesus Christ body will not see corruption. 

I think I see what you're saying brother.  This is why Jesus said blessed are you who have not seen and yet believe.  OT saints had not seen.....those who were not with Jesus when He walked the earth have not seen.  The disciples had seen and when what they had seen with their natural eyes appeared to have been defeated and taken away from their sight, they could no longer believe what they could no longer see with their natural eyes.  Walking by faith and not by sight is something that needs to be learned, by even we who have not seen and yet believe.  (And those who are always needing to have everything "proved" to their sight are not yet walking by faith and seeing by faith.)

But the things Jesus said were not spoken just to make conversation or point out a fault, but there are deeper reasons why He said the things He said....I believe He is speaking in spirit and showing spiritual truths (principles), so His word is still alive in that sense, so myself I believe they can be applied to future times as well as in the present to individuals or in corporate ways.

[Heleadethme]

33 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Maybe read Josephus. Where the vases of dead birds sacrificed to pagan gods were dumped in the entrances to synagogues etc. And the abominations that occurred in the actual temple when the Jews were raping and pillaging and murdering each other. Then the privations of all manner of horrific acts were performed.. lots of stuff.
Oh and per Matt 24, the Christians heeded that warning by Yeshua and escaped, but their fellows that were performing the Passover that year were all killed. 

https://josephusonline.weebly.com/jewish-war.html#

It is a heavy read...

Could it be a case of "first the natural, then the spiritual"......?  The church seems so far to fall into the same snares that our ensample Israel did.   And it's not that hard to see cages of foul birds and haunts of demons in certain "Christian" circles, most prominently the RCC, but also increasingly within protestant evangelical ministries, sadly.