Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

 

If you will not for all this obey me, then I will punish you seven times more.

.. seven times more

.. seven  times more

.. seven times

Leviticus 26:18,21,24,28

 

"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams,
and gives you a sign or a wonder,
and the sign or wonder comes to pass,
whereof he spake saying, let us go after other gods,
do not follow him, for the Lord tests you"

Deuteronomy 13:1-3 which no doubt ties directly into Revelation 13.

Clearly it is a description of the false prophet,
making clear that there will be an actual person doing signs and wonders.
 

"In the first year of Darius, I Daniel understood
by the books the number of years,
which came as the word of the Lord by Jeremiah,
how that the Lord would accomplish 70 years
in the desolations of Jerusalem."

And therefore, it being 70 years of him in captivity,
Daniel cries out to the Lord to not destroy Jerusalem: Daniel 9:3-19.

But the angel Gabriel comes and gives Daniel skill in understanding
and tells him straight out:
"Seventy captivities are determined upon they people
and upon they holy city, to finish the transgression
and to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and the prophecy,
and to anoint the Holy of Holies" [as King of Kings and Lord of Lords]
Daniel 9:24

Thereby we know that Jerusalem will be destroyed 70 times.

70 sets of 70 year captivities are determined,
each ending with the destruction of various cities including Jerusalem.
Jeremiah 25:12-18

So we can infer as many as 70 different temples.

At the end of world war 2 half of Jerusalem became uninhabited
until 1967, in 1967 a war and occupation, a captivity,
started that continues to this day.

 

"..and the end thereof shall be with a flood
And until the end of the war, desolations are determined" Daniel 9:26

"the serpent cast out of his mouth, a river of water as a flood after the woman,
that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood" Revelation 12:15

 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

 

If you will not for all this obey me, then I will punish you seven times more.

.. seven times more

.. seven  times more

.. seven times

Leviticus 26:18,21,24,28

 

"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams,
and gives you a sign or a wonder,
and the sign or wonder comes to pass,
whereof he spake saying, let us go after other gods,
do not follow him, for the Lord tests you"

Deuteronomy 13:1-3 which no doubt ties directly into Revelation 13.

Clearly it is a description of the false prophet,
making clear that there will be an actual person doing signs and wonders.
 

"In the first year of Darius, I Daniel understood
by the books the number of years,
which came as the word of the Lord by Jeremiah,
how that the Lord would accomplish 70 years
in the desolations of Jerusalem."

And therefore, it being 70 years of him in captivity,
Daniel cries out to the Lord to not destroy Jerusalem: Daniel 9:3-19.

But the angel Gabriel comes and gives Daniel skill in understanding
and tells him straight out:
"Seventy captivities are determined upon they people
and upon they holy city, to finish the transgression
and to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and the prophecy,
and to anoint the Holy of Holies" [as King of Kings and Lord of Lords]
Daniel 9:24

Thereby we know that Jerusalem will be destroyed 70 times.

70 sets of 70 year captivities are determined,
each ending with the destruction of various cities including Jerusalem.
Jeremiah 25:12-18

So we can infer as many as 70 different temples.

At the end of world war 2 half of Jerusalem became uninhabited
until 1967, in 1967 a war and occupation, a captivity,
started that continues to this day.

 

"..and the end thereof shall be with a flood
And until the end of the war, desolations are determined" Daniel 9:26

"the serpent cast out of his mouth, a river of water as a flood after the woman,
that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood" Revelation 12:15

 

Hello Deso,  

Could you please explain how you went from 'times' to 'captivities'?  I can't find the path you took to make that connection and 70 different temples.

Thank you


 

[DeighAnn]

On 6/20/2021 at 6:41 PM, DeighAnn said:

Same fruit.  

The Holy Place.  Remember Daniels prophecy?  Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

BUT the evidence does NOT prove otherwise except in your opinion.  

The evidence follows exactly as I have stated it.  IF only YOU COULD FIND A CONNECTION instead of just a conjunction to hang your hat on... 

Were they at the temple?  Was the destruction of the temple spoken of?  Were there any other 'end time events' spoken of at that time?  

Did they leave the temple?  Did they bring up it's destruction once they did?  

So no end times talked about when destruction was and no destruction spoken of when end times were 

AND you say I GOT it wrong?  And still not once have you shown the connection.  

 

NO it is not.  

AGAIN, The 1st prophecy was spoken about the temple AT the temple

The 2nd prophecy was spoken about the end and was spoken AT the Mount of Olives



SO ANY AND WITHIN THE VERSE THAT CAME AT THE MOUNT OF OLIVES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE.  

Doesn't matter how many people have said it for how many years.  IT IS WRITTEN.  

2 DIFFERENT PLACES
2 DIFFERENT TIMES
2 DIFFERENT PROPHECIES

I can't help it if I don't just take the tail of the elephant in front of me and follow where ever he leads BECAUSE

I READ about the SCRIBES WAY back in Chronicles.   I read the first words out of the mouth of Satan and the FIRST THING HE said wasn't even SOMETHING I would have noticed as 'CHANGING THE TRUTH INTO A LIE' but none the less from that time on I have been very aware of just how Satan works in Gods Word and what it LOOKS like and how I can FEEL the bait and switch long before I ever see it.  

Show me  ANY MENTION OF TEMPLE DESTRUCTION once they get to the Mount. and that conversation begins.

                                NASB LEXICON

2521  TO BE SEATED
3735  A MOUNTAIN
1636  AN OLIVE
3101  A DISCIPLE
4334  TO APPROACH, TO DRAW NEAR
2596  DOWN, AGAINST, ACCORDING TO
3004  TO SAY
4219  WHEN
3778  THIS
1510  I EXIST, I AM
5101  WHO WHICH WHAT
4592  A SIGN
3952  A PRESENCE, A COMING
4930  A JOINT PAYMENT (FOR PUBLIC SERVICE), JOINT ACTION, SPEC COMPLETION
165  A SPACE OF TIME, AN AGE

INTERLINEAR

2521  {AS} WAS SITTING
1161   NOW
846    HE
1909  UPON
3588  THE
3735  MOUNT
3588 
1636  OF OLIVES
4334  CAME TO
846    HIM
3101  DISCIPLES
2596  IN
2398  PRIVATE
3004  SAYING
2036  TELL
1473  US
4219  WHEN
3778  THESE THINGS 
1510  WILL BE
2532  AND
5101  WHAT {IS}
3588  THE
4592  SIGN
3588  
4674  OF YOUR
3952  COMING
2532  AND
4930  OF THE CONSUMMATION 
3588  OF THE
165    AGE

 

 

 AND the "these things" cannot be solely about the signs because of the conjunctions and conjugation of the text itself.

 

THAT is the evidence??  IS that HOW we are told to read the WORD OF GOD?  Does that sound like something the common child would pick up on?  

Is it really EVERYONE else here with whom you are trading posts TRYING TO MAKE THE TEXT SAY SOMETHING other than what is stated????????


 

1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

1 Corinthians 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1 Corinthians 3:18 LET NO MAN DECEIVE HIMSELF. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

1 Corinthians 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

1 Corinthians 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's;

1 Corinthians 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's;

1 Corinthians 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

Christ was rejected, Crucified.  The Kingdoms of this world did not all become His at that time. (ALL THE WHILE REMEMBERING THAT GOD ULTIMATELY OWNS AND CREATES AND RULES AND IS IN CHARGE AND ALL THE REST but HERE IN HIS PLAN OF SALVATION are THE DETAILS UNFOLDING AND THAT HE IS ALLOWING FOR HIS PLAN TO COME TO FRUITION)


BUT
2  Corinthians 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;

2  Corinthians 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

2  Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost

Can we BE SURE who the god of this world PRESENTLY IS?  

2  Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2  Corinthians 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

2  Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

(WE can never forget that WHEN Christ returns ALL will be changed and since WE are not changed, Christ has not returned.  We have heard that 'YES HE HAS' BUT AS WE KNOW straight from the mouth of Jesus that 

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.  30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.  So there could be no marriage and no child birth either and since there presently is.....)

 

2  Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.


Do you think that when CHRIST WITH A ROD OF IRON IS RULING THAT WE WILL EVER FEEL

2  Corinthians 4:8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;

2  Corinthians 4:9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed

NOT A CHANCE ON GODS GREEN EARTH WILL WE BE CAST DOWN WHEN REIGNING WITH CHRIST

AND WE ALSO WILL NOT BE
2  Corinthians 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
BECAUSE IT WILL HAVE ALREADY HAVE HAPPENED

2  Corinthians 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
 DEATH WILL BE BOUND FOR THE 1000 YEARS AND WE WILL IN NO WAY BE BEING DELIVERED UNTO DEATH , AND NOT IN MORTAL FLESH BECAUSE 'ALL WILL BE CHANGED' .  CAN'T GET AROUND IT.  
 

[The Light]

On 6/20/2021 at 12:15 PM, Josheb said:

False dichotomy. 

What you're talking about is the difference between evidence and proof. The fact is the temple is mentioned in Matthew 24 AND the temple that is mentioned is the temple of stone that was standing in Jerusalem during the incarnation AND the "these things" cannot be solely about the signs because of the conjunctions and conjugation of the text itself. THAT is the evidence. No interpretation has yet been applied to those facts by me. Everyone else here with whom I am trading posts has tried to make the text say something other than what is stated. The fact is the temple is mentioned and it was claimed the temple was not mentioned. 

Now my comment, "Then there is a mention," was based on your comment, "Two full chapters, Matt 24-25, no mention of the coming 70 AD Temple destruction except Matt 24:2." Well, dear brother, IF Matthew 24:2 mentions the temple then the temple was mentioned. Do not dismiss it because it is the only mention. It is PROOF the temple was mentioned AND that fact is evidence the conversation Jesus was having with his disciples that evening was in part about the temple of stone. We're not trying to work from proof through evidence to other proofs. We should be doing so exegetically. 

Furthermore, the entire statement is factually incorrect because Matthew 24:2 is not the only mention of the temple AND the narrative isn't just two chapters long; it is five chapters long!  

 

So...... consider things from my perspective because what you post - what you may intend to post - is much different than what I am reading as far as a cogent case for anything goes because I'm reading explicit statements in scripture being dismissed. I am reading a lack of exegesis. I am reading fallacies like the construction error, false dichotomy and straw man. I am not reading an impeccable argument. I am happy to examine the argument and submit my positions to the exact same standards. So far what I am reading is not as evidenced as the positions I have posted and the only reason I can see for the disagreement is the eschatological biases (none of which I have yet posted, even though I was accused by another of doing so). 

Well, the evidence proves otherwise . 

 

 

.

Phfff. I've don't recall ever seeing so much smoke being blown around. I was watching my 6 after the 1st sentence. I don't think anyone, beyond the Lord himself, is capable of getting you out of what you are in. The confusion is running amuck. 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 6/22/2021 at 12:33 PM, DeighAnn said:

Could you please explain how you went from 'times' to 'captivities'?  I can't find the path you took to make that connection and 70 different temples.

1.

Daniel 9:2

I Daniel understood by the books the number of the years...
that He would accomplish 70 years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

2.
With Daniel 9:3-19 together with 2 Chronicles 36:6-21
we can understand that Daniel had been in captivity 70 years.
And therefore Daniel was praying to God to not destroy Jerusalem: Daniel 9:3-19.
Because, as Daniel referenced, Jeremiah had prophesied that after 70 years,
Jerusalem, along with other cities in the world,
would be destroyed: Jeremiah 25:12-18.
 

3.
But the angel Gabriel comes and gives Daniel skill in understanding.

[Simply by the context of Daniel 9:2 through 19;
Daniel was concerned about his captivity in Babylon and its ending,
it makes contextual sense that Gabriel would come and give
Daniel information concerning the captivity,
because that is what Daniel was praying about, as we can clearly read]

'70 captivities are determined upon thy people...'
Which ties into Leviticus 26 where the Lord repeated over and over that
He would punish them seven times.
And as we read Daniel 9:24-27 it makes completely more sense
with 'captivities' instead of 'weeks' or 'times'.
After about 32 captivities, the Messiah was crucified,
that is what it specifically says: Daniel 9:26,
thereby really making sense out of 'captivities' instead of 'weeks'.

Jeremiah 25:12-18 is therefore prophesied via Daniel to happen 70 times.

4.
We can generally see at least 3 captivities in time.
The one ending in 70 A.D.
The one starting in 1090 A.D.
And the one starting in 1967 that continues now.
But the record of time has been heavily messed with
such that it is hard to clearly see or know about the various 
captivities that have happened.

-------

The record of time has been messed with by the office of the anti-Christ,
which office also headed the invasion of Jerusalem in 1090.
Remember that the anti-Christ pretends to be for Christ.

Also the synagogue of Satan, red haired descendants of Esau,
have been successful in getting people to believe that they are the
truest 'Jews' but they do lie.

"But the day of the Lord is near..
Deliverers shall come up on mount Zion, to judge the mount of Esau,
and the kingdom shall be the Lords." Obadiah 1:15,21.

"I will be a swift witness against.. false swearers..
and them that turn aside the stranger from his right." Malachi 3:5

Which is happening right now, the 'strangers' in Israel
are being turned aside from what is rightfully theirs
by those pretending to be Jews. It has been going on since 1967.

"I know the blasphemy of them who say they are Jews
and are not but do lie, and are a synagogue of Satan,
behold, I will make them come and bow before your feet"
Revelation 3:9 which connects with Obadiah 1:21.

The truest descendants of Jacob are under the curse; Deut 28:43-44, 64
and are being oppressed in Israel right now.
The oppression they face has the goal of trying to expel them from
Israel. When it started in 1948-1967 many thousands of them
indeed were scattered abroad from Israel, as the so called 'settlers'
moved in and took over the high hills of Israel, [Ezekiel 36:1-3] as it is now.
What is going on in Israel today is apartheid, and the Lord specifically
promised that He would be a witness against it; Malachi 3:5.

-------

-------

 

Clearly the audience of Matthew 24 would have understood Daniel because Christ specifically mentions Daniel in Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:15 together with Mark 13:14 and Daniel 9:27,11:31
makes clear that Christ was speaking about something
being placed inside of a physical temple. For certainly Daniel
was speaking about a physical temple and its sacrifices.
And in Mark it specifically says "standing where it ought not".

1 Corinthians 10:11

"upon whom the ends of the ages are come"

Because when Christ died and rose from the dead,
at that time the end of the world began.

He went up to heaven, sat down at the right hand of God,
and opened the first seal of the book that was,
in the right hand of God,
thereby starting the end times. 

Revelation chapter 5:

"I saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne
a book .. sealed with seven seals .."

"..in the midst of the throne.. stood a Lamb.."

Revelation 6:1-8;

"And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals..."

White

about 33 A.D. through to about 1825
[1792 years, 1792 is a multiple of 7:  1792 / 7 = 256 ]
The Napoleon era, the conquest and formation
of the worlds countries as we have them now.

Red

about 1825 to 1986
[161 years, another multiple of 7]
All modern major war is in this time period
including ww1 and 2. Hitler was the climax
and a obvious rider on the red horse.

Black
1986-88 and ongoing
World wide economic collapse.

Pale
The anti-Christ period of time, death personified.

Revelation 6:9-11 the saints cry out for the day of the Lord.

Revelation 6:12-17 then describes the day of the Lord
as described in other places such as Matthew 24 and Joel 2.

The book of Revelation repeats the same story
using different visions each giving different details
of the same story.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Desopixi Seilynam
the temple and the end of the ages, 1792

[WilliamL]

On 6/17/2021 at 3:40 PM, Josheb said:

Yes, it will happen quickly...... because the time is at hand. 

Not, when the time is at hand but because the time is at hand.... in the first century when John was told to write those words. 

Yes, the time was at hand regarding the letters to the 7 churches. But not for "the things which must take place after these things."

Rev. 4:1 After these things [regarding the 7 churches], I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after these things [regarding the 7 churches].”

If you try to lump the timeline together, making all occur at once, you violate the meaning of the above text.

[R. Hartono]

Let's wait for the fulfillment of Jesus return n every prophecy in Bible.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by R. Hartono

[TheBlade]

I agree with the OP there is no secret caught up (rapture) in Matt 24. I believe its tied with what Daniel said in Chapter 7 I believe. I don't see Matt 24 and 1st Thess 4 as the same. Matt He comes in the clouds sends His angels vs with the voice of an archangel. How the voice equals "angels" ok. Matt Hes not bring any of those that have fallen asleep as in Thess 4 "For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep". Also left out is "And the dead in Christ will rise first.". See is the "given" I can't agree with. Its a given those things are there just not said. 

Oh just something I have honestly never heard before was this "The generation that saw the new Israel established in 1948 has passed away; that's why they are moving the date to the capture of Jerusalem in 1967". Saying the fig and blooming is not Israel.. we can say that but hard to prove that argument. Saying they (whos they? no really?) are moving it to the 6 day war? Maybe to fit ones personal view. To also make this work I am guessing a generation is now 40years vs up to 70+. As of now I think were about age 73?

Caught up before the great tribulation causes fear? Lets see what Christ said "For there will be trouble then worse than there has ever been from the beginning of the world until now, and there will be nothing like it again!". They asked Him are you going to restore the kingdom of Israel He said "And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power"

Now some want to keep running to and fro trying to figure this out. you won't. Each of us can stick to our guns lol to so to speak "my doctrine is sound yours is false" praise GOD. Fact Christ still come in the air those that have died will be with Him.. the dead will rise then we which are alive will be caught up together to meet Him in the air and will be with Him forever. No one here can say "if you are not watching do not believe". Yes we can say "it only happens at the end" <--I can't find that verse.  I will not put my faith into some man/woman of this world that has no more information about this then I have. To me to be watching ready now seems wise and I get a great peace. 

Just my thoughts.. just sharing not "this is fact/proof" Yeah I can be wrong. 

[WilliamL]

On 6/23/2021 at 4:52 PM, Josheb said:

Have you read the book of Revelation? Are you aware that with only one singular exception the word "tribulation" does not occur after the letters to the seven churches? If what you just posted then the tribulation is a past-tense event because it was for the seven churches and pertained to events that were then at hand.

That "one singular exception" (Rev. 7:14) speaks of the raptured saints before the throne in heaven in our day. Big exception! 

[R. Hartono]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

Do please show me where the 21st century is mentioned in Revelation 7:14 (or any of its immediately surrounding verses). 

Please show where in history it has ever happened