Adam- Gentile or Jew

[Starise]

Adam was the first man. The man all other men came from. Jesus was called the last Adam. Since Jesus was Jewish does this mean Adam was Jewish? If Adam was Jewish, then where do the Gentiles come from?

Thoughts?

I see various branches of men through history and I associate gentiles with the line of Cain maybe inaccurately.

God called Abraham who was the progenitor of the Jews. Was Abraham a Jew before he was called? In some writings he is even said to have worshiped the sun god before God called him. God initiated specific sacrificial requirements for Himself with Abraham, although both Cain and Abel offered sacrifices to God. Were these sacrifices gifts of honor or early examples of the symbolic sacrifice which was to follow?

I believe much of the answer lies in how we we see Jews and being Jewish. 

Possibly I see an archetype of God's plan with Jew/Gentile in Sarah and Hagar. Sarah was to give birth to the lineage of Christ. Hagar  was supposed to be plan B due to Sarah's lack of faith. Sarah having given up on having children. Later texts say God wanted to spur the Jews to jealousy over the Gentiles. This is what happened with Sarah and Hagar.  Hagar became prideful over having children and held it over Sarah's head. Sarah could not bear this and disliked Hagar demanding she be expelled from the camp. Comparisons here to modern day Jews and Gentiles? The Jews can't stand Jesus and demand he be expelled from their religion. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Starise

[teddyv]

I would not classify as either.

Abraham was from Ur, therefore he was likely a Sumerian.

The term of "Jews" does not even show up until the exile and post-exile history (Esther, Ezra). Gentile, I assume, is purely a distinction only from a Jewish POV. 

[Who me]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

Adam was the first man. The man all other men came from. Jesus was called the last Adam. Since Jesus was Jewish does this mean Adam was Jewish? If Adam was Jewish, then where do the Gentiles come from?

We are decended from Adam via Noah's sons.

They are the ones whose decendandants spread out and populated the world and cause the different races of humanity to form.

 

Was Adam a Jew or a gentile? He was not a Jew as Jews come from him so he has to be a gentile.

[enoob57]

Jews came out of gentiles... God chose out of gentiles a chosen people that would be called Israel starting with Abraham...

[Marathoner]

Adam, the first man of the dust, was neither Jew nor gentile. 

He was not a Jew, for his flesh wasn't circumcised and the Law was given to Moses who came after him.

He also wasn't a gentile, which to my knowledge means foreigner according to the Hebriac mindset. During Paul's day, "Greek" meant gentile. The ancient world of the second temple period was Hellenized which also affected the Jewish diaspora, and the Greek language was the most commonly spoken and written tongue at that time.

Remember, the Roman empire was heavily influenced by Greek culture, which is a reflection of former Greek hegemony (Hellenization of the ancient world). The Romans sought to replicate Greek architecture and improve upon it (Greco-Roman); these pagans adopted Greek mythos for their own.

Adam couldn't be a foreigner as he was the first man. I'm not following regarding the descendants of Cain because "Jew" and "Gentile" were distinctions which came about with the Law, and the Law was given to Moses, not Adam. I'm aware of strange brew swirling around about these things so a good rule of thumb is this:

Measure that stuff with scripture. Adam, Enoch, Job, and Noah are never referred to as Jews nor gentiles. That distinction is unique to Israel of the flesh. Besides, there is neither Jew nor gentile (Greek) in Jesus Christ, and He is the last Adam. 

We can see how Man (Adam) is redeemed by the Son of Man. 

[Dennis1209]

Starise, you sure can pick topics with no quick explanations. Is that intentional? 😊 There is so much ground to cover; a short Campbell’s Condensed Rehydratable Soup version is all I can muster.

Once again, my disclaimer: My theology and interpretations may not be correct or mainstream. First, we have to ask, what is a Gentile and what is a Jew?

ĠEN´TĪLE, n. [L. gentilis; Fr. gentil; Sp. gentil; from L. gens, nation, race; applied to pagans.]  In the scriptures, a pagan; a worshipper of false gods; any person not a Jew or a christian; a heathen. The Hebrews included in the term goim or nations, all the tribes of men who had not received the true faith, and were not circumcised. The christians translated goim by the L. gentes, and imitated the Jews in giving the name gentiles to all nations who were not Jews not christians. In civil affairs, the denomination was given to all nations who were not Romans.

Webster, Noah. Noah Webster’s First Edition of An American Dictionary of the English Language., Foundation for American Christian Education, 2006.

Therefore, if you are not a Jew, you are a gentile. Everyone is familiar with the Tower of Babel, the confusion of tongues, the division-dispersion of the 70 nations (probably by language), and the listed table of nations in Genesis. These were all gentile nations, worshipping and sacrificing to their pagan gods.

Deuteronomy 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Psalm 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance. [emphasis mine]

Shortly after the dispersion of nations, the Lord wanted a people and nation of his own. This “inheritance” alone is a lengthy subject, and there are a lot of details and gaps not addressed for brevity.

Very shortly after the dispersion of the nations, the Lord chose Abram to be the father of all nations, both Gentile and Jew.

Genesis 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

Technically, Abram, Isaac, and Jacob (the progenitors) are given the promise, but they are not Jewish; they were the fathers of Judaism. The children of Jacob by all his wives (Jacob, changed to Israel by the Lord) were technically the first Jews. There was a change (substitution) along the way with Joseph’s children, and that is another story.

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

The Lord Himself performed the first animal sacrifice to literally and spiritually cover Adam & Eve. What was the difference between Able & Cains’s offering, the Lord accepted, and the one He rejected? One of blood and one of the earth.

In the Old Testament, they had no idea about the coming Messiah, and it was masked and hidden. In hindsight, we see Jesus in various places, such as Genesis 3:15. The Hebrews-Jews worshipped the Father only, as they do today, still looking toward the first coming of their Messiah.

You are observant and correct with your examples of types, shadows, and lineages about Sari & Hagar and others. It is a blessing to live in this age and have God's complete word, and we understand so much more of God’s plan and purposes. I like the following statement that I do not believe was around in Old Testament times:

The Old Testament Is The New Testament Concealed, The New Testament Is The Old Testament Revealed.

 

[other one]

I think the term Jew began from the decedents of  Juda.    After the ten tribes were carried away it kind of stuck when the two tribes remaining and those who migrated from the ten to the then country of Judah.  

In considering Abraham, we should keep in mind that he was 58 years old when Noah died.   And up until he was about 40 all nine generations of Noah's offspring were still alive.   Noah was the tenth.   Shem lived 35 years after Abraham died.  Abraham was in his 40s when Nimrod died; and that was thirty or so years before God told him to pick up and leave home to a place he would give him.

 

I'm not sure there were gentile/jew in Adam's lifetime.   Gentile/Hebrew then later Jew kind of started at the tower of Babel when God divided up everyone according to the sons of God.....    God chose Abraham to make him a tribe to keep for himself, and everything else was gentile.....    but that's a long story.

 

[JohnD]

The actual name Jew is derived from Judah (Yehuda) son of Yacob (Jacob / Israel).

First biblical mention of the term is:

2 Kings 16:6 (AV)
6 At that time Rezin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and drave the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day.

The term is also derived from Judah the Southern Kingdom and later Judea and became synonymous with all the decedents of Abraham Isaac and Jacob (i.e. Judaism etc.).

But traditionally in Judaism the first Jew was:

Abraham.

Abraham is hailed as the first Hebrew and the father of the Jewish people. As a reward for his act of faith in one God, he was promised that Isaac, his second son, would inherit the Land of Israel (then called Canaan).

Abram (later Abraham) the Eber-ew (Hebrew heir of Eber) the Shem-ite (Semite) heir of Shem.

 

[JohnD]

Adam preceded any nation (Gentile means non-Jew which stems from goy which means nation).

Noah (much to the chagrin of Noahides) was also Gentile / goy.

[Starise]

So would you say this was more of a territorial rather than an ethnic separation ordained by God? Or is it both?

Technically I see Adam as a progenitor of the eventual gentiles if he wasn't a Jew. If Adam had not sinned would there be a need for a distinction of men as separate?  A savior was necessary.

Jesus finishes the circle. Gentiles>Jews coming from them for a purpose >purpose circles back to gentiles because Jews rejected>Jews to eventually return. 

These are wide brush strokes because we know many Jews will not return. Many have already died in their sins. 

What could have been an all encompassing plan ends up being a salvage operation because men's hearts were not receptive to acknowledge God.

Back when Jews came from gentiles via  Abram there was no physical difference between him and the rest of the gentiles. This leads me to believe the difference is not physical at all. God made the first Jews from gentile blood.Even so lineage was critical to God's plan. We can find Rahab in Jesus family history. I guess I don't see where the blood changed?

Early on I don't think they were called Jews, yet they as a separate people existed before the name.

Maybe over time the distinctions have become more markedly physical through marrying close in the tribe.

Many today who call themselves Jewish probably don't originate from Israel.

I'm not stating all of this as fact,just kicking it around