Who is Resurrected, and When?

[Diaste]

On 2/6/2023 at 7:43 AM, Uriah said:

At is coming, there will be judgment. (see Rev 11:18). Also John 5:29-  they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

The beast and false prophet have been in the lake of fore for over 1,000 yrs. by the time the devil is likewise punished. This means there had a judgment 1,000 yrs. earlier. That means there was a resurrection for the statements in Mat 25:41 and Rev 20:15 and it would have to be the first resurrection.

I'm still trying to get back to this. Work always intervenes in life.  

 

[Selah7]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Why? So this transformation is so profound it's the end of days? What about all the people living in the kingdom for 1000 years? 

Yes, it’s very profound!  Jesus returns, it’s the end of grace, and it’s the end of the flesh.

In the millennium, we are in our spiritual bodies.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Selah7

[Selah7]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

How does one count years without days?

How do those in the Kingdom know when to arrive for the Feast of Tabernacles year on year if there are no months and weeks and days?

God knows. 

[Selah7]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

On 2/7/2023 at 5:43 AM, Selah7 said:

 

The “dead in Christ” are those who have died believing in Christ who come with Him at His return; yes?

I don't understand.

 

The dead in Christ are those Christians who have left their fleshly bodies behind and whose spirits have returned to the Lord (Ecclesiastes 12:7).  These will be returning with Christ when He comes.  Yes?

Edited February 8, 2023 by Selah7

[Uriah]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

His arrival does not equate with the end of the world and in fact cannot

 

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

This doesn't tell us it's immediately upon His revealing from heaven

 

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Where does it say this happens at the onset of the 1000 years?

 

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Then the last day is last day of the 1000 years

 

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

There really isn't a direct statement to confirm when

You admit that you have no direct statement regarding "after the thousand yrs" and it still seems like a reliance on non exitance of of a statement. That would make it hard to do much bible learning at all. Trinity etc. 

But I have provided plenty of scriptural evidence. (all rejected)

Heb 2:5- For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come,  whereof we speak.

And there are other references of the "world to come" and I think it is fair to say it will be different from this one, as was pointed out by scripture. 

2Pe 3:6- Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

This is why I insist that the change is shown to us in the scriptures as well.

Rev 6:14- And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every  mountain and island were moved out of their places.

 

And I think the apostles did know when the end of the world was.

Mat 13:39- The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the  world; and the reapers are the angels.

Mat 13:41- The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Mat 13:49- So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just

 

Mat 24:3- And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him  privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign  of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Mat 24:31- And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 24:2- Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

Mat 24:33- So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near  even at the doors.

 

Mat 25:31- When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels  with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

After this verse there is a record of what happens, "when the Son of man shall come." It includes those going into their reward and those going into fire. No criteria requiring martyrdom or great tribulation is put on them. In fact to, "enter in" it does require a resurrection.

 

I believe that there is a DAY that has to be the last day of this world. It is not un discernable and can be found by comparing the pertinent scriptures.

It settles it for me. 

 

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived

You mean like yourself, right? False7t7, you're on the wrong track. You've NEGLECTED WHOLE PORTIONS of prophecy for your truncated version!

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?

Everything about the Kingdom of God is physical! That you don't know that only tells me that you've been deceived by the false teachings that have surfaced through the centuries to make most believe that we "go to heaven after we die, and live forever in eternal bliss." That's NONSENSE! The Scriptures don't teach that malarky!

The major problem is that no one has an alternative view anymore! (They DID once!)

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

2.) Physical Earthly Throne?

YES! There WILL BE a physical, earthly throne! Who do you think you are to say otherwise? THIS is what YHWH GOD HIMSELF said:

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

 That's not off in some la-la land called "heaven!" That is HERE on the earth! Too bad if you don't like it! It was PREDICTED in the Davidic Covenant! READ THIS FOR UNDERSTANDING!!!

2 Samuel 7:1-17 (KJV)

1 And it came to pass, when the king [David] sat in his house, and the LORD had given him rest round about from all his enemies; 2 That the king said unto Nathan the prophet,

"See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains!"

3 And Nathan said to the king,

"Go, do all that is in thine heart; for the LORD is with thee."

4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying, 

5 "Go and tell my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD,

"'"Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in? 6 Whereas I have not dwelt in any house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. 7 In all the places wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, 'Why build ye not me an house of cedar?' "'

8 "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD of hosts,

"'"I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth. 

10 "'"Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies."

"'Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house. 

12 "'"And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit (If He be twisted into) iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever."'"

17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

LISTEN TO DAVID'S RESPONSE!

2 Samuel 7:18-29 (KJV)

18 Then went king David in, and sat before the LORD, and he said,

"Who am I, O Lord GOD? and what is my house, that thou hast brought me hitherto? 19 And this was yet a small thing in thy sight, O Lord GOD; but thou hast spoken also of thy servant's house for a great while to come. And is this the manner of man, O Lord GOD? 20 And what can David say more unto thee? for thou, Lord GOD, knowest thy servant. 21 For thy word's sake, and according to thine own heart, hast thou done all these great things, to make thy servant know them. 22 Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears. 23 And what one nation in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, from the nations and their gods? 24 For thou hast confirmed to thyself thy people Israel to be a people unto thee for ever: and thou, LORD, art become their God. 25 And now, O LORD God, the word that thou hast spoken concerning thy servant, and concerning his house, establish it for ever, and do as thou hast said. 26 And let thy name be magnified for ever, saying, The LORD of hosts is the God over Israel: and let the house of thy servant David be established before thee. 27 For thou, O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, hast revealed to thy servant, saying, 'I will build thee an house': therefore hath thy servant found in his heart to pray this prayer unto thee. 28 And now, O Lord GOD, thou art that God, and thy words be true, and thou hast promised this goodness unto thy servant: 29 Therefore now let it please thee to bless the house of thy servant, that it may continue for ever before thee: for thou, O Lord GOD, hast spoken it: and with thy blessing let the house of thy servant be blessed for ever."

And, if that wasn't enough, the writer of 1 Chronicles thought it important enough to repeat this to establish its truth!

1 Chronicles 17:1-27 (KJV)

1 Now it came to pass, as David sat in his house, that David said to Nathan the prophet,

"Lo, I dwell in an house of cedars, but the ark of the covenant of the LORD remaineth under curtains!"

2 Then Nathan said unto David,

"Do all that is in thine heart; for God is with thee."

3 And it came to pass the same night, that the word of God came to Nathan, saying, 

4 "Go and tell David my servant,

"'Thus saith the LORD,

"'"Thou shalt not build me an house to dwell in: 5 For I have not dwelt in an house since the day that I brought up Israel unto this day; but have gone from tent to tent, and from one tabernacle to another. 6 Wheresoever I have walked with all Israel, spake I a word to any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people, saying, 'Why have ye not built me an house of cedars?' "'

7 "Now therefore thus shalt thou say unto my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD of hosts,

"'"I took thee from the sheepcote, even from following the sheep, that thou shouldest be ruler over my people Israel: 8 And I have been with thee whithersoever thou hast walked, and have cut off all thine enemies from before thee, and have made thee a name like the name of the great men that are in the earth. 

9 "'"Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning, 10 And since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel. Moreover I will subdue all thine enemies.

"'Furthermore I tell thee that the LORD will build thee an house. 

11 "'"And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore."'"

15 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

16 And David the king came and sat before the LORD, and said,

"Who am I, O LORD God, and what is mine house, that thou hast brought me hitherto? 17 And yet this was a small thing in thine eyes, O God; for thou hast also spoken of thy servant's house for a great while to come, and hast regarded me according to the estate of a man of high degree, O LORD God. 18 What can David speak more to thee for the honour of thy servant? for thou knowest thy servant. 19 O LORD, for thy servant's sake, and according to thine own heart, hast thou done all this greatness, in making known all these great things. 20 O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears. 21 And what one nation in the earth is like thy people Israel, whom God went to redeem to be his own people, to make thee a name of greatness and terribleness, by driving out nations from before thy people, whom thou hast redeemed out of Egypt? 22 For thy people Israel didst thou make thine own people for ever; and thou, LORD, becamest their God.

23 "Therefore now, LORD, let the thing that thou hast spoken concerning thy servant and concerning his house be established for ever, and do as thou hast said. 24 Let it even be established, that thy name may be magnified for ever, saying, 'The LORD of hosts is the God of Israel, even a God to Israel': and let the house of David thy servant be established before thee. 25 For thou, O my God, hast told thy servant that thou wilt build him an house: therefore thy servant hath found in his heart to pray before thee. 26 And now, LORD, thou art God, and hast promised this goodness unto thy servant: 27 Now therefore let it please thee to bless the house of thy servant, that it may be before thee for ever: for thou blessest, O LORD, and it shall be blessed for ever."

Oh, and I suppose a great CINO (Christian In Name Only)  like yourself is going to say otherwise?!

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

That's how Paul said it would be! Tell me, did Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") rise again bodily? Did He rise again PHYSICALLY?! OF COURSE, HE DID! Haven't you read about this in Luke's Gospel?

Luke 24:13-43 (KJV)

13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore (sixty) furlongs. 14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened. 15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. 16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him. 17 And he said unto them,

"What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?"

18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him,

"Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?"

19 And he said unto them,

"What things?"

And they said unto him,

"Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: 20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. 21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done. 22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre; 23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive. 24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not."

25 Then he said unto them,

"O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 26 Ought not Christ (the Messiah) to have suffered these things, and to enter into his GLORY (not a place but His BRIGHTNESS)?"

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further. 29 But they constrained him, saying,

"Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent."

And he went in to tarry with them. 30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. 31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight. 32 And they said one to another,

"Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?"

33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them, 34 Saying,

"The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon!"

35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them,

"Peace be unto you."

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit (a ghost)! 38 And he said unto them,

"Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them,

"Have ye here any meat (food)?"

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

If that's not physical, I don't know what is!

What did Paul say? When's the last time you've read through the whole 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians?

1 Corinthians 15:1- (KJV)

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel (good news) which I preached (heralded) unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved (rescued), if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ (hope in a Messiah), we are of all men most miserable!

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:

(0) Christ the firstfruits;
(1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24
(2) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The LAST enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put ALL things under his feet. (But when he saith, "all things are put under him," it is manifest that "he" is excepted, which did "put all things under him.")

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? 30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? 31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily! 32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die. 33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. 34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

35 But some man will say,

"How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened (brought back to life), except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but ...
there is one kind of flesh of men,
another flesh of beasts,
another of fishes, and 
another of birds. 40
There are also celestial bodies, and
bodies terrestrial:

but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41
There is one glory of the sun, and
another glory of the moon, and
another glory of the stars:
for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.

It is sown in corruption; it is raised in INCORRUPTION: 43
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in GLORY: 
it is sown in weakness; it is raised in POWER: 44
It is sown a natural body (Greek: sooma psuchikon = "a-body air-breathing");
it is raised A SPIRITUAL BODY (Greek: sooma pneumatikon = "a-body air-blasting"). 

The is the Greek word from which we get our word "pneumatic" as in a "pneumatic hammer!"

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written,

"The (first) man (Adam) was made a living soul (Greek: psucheen zoosan = 'a-breathing-creature living')"; (Genesis 2:7)

the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (Greek: pneuma zoo-opoioun = "a-wind life-giving"). 
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy (Greek: ek gees, choikos = "out of-[the]-earth, made-of-dust"):
the second man is the Lord from heaven (Greek: ex ouranou = "out of-[the]-sky"). 48
As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and
as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And
as we have borne the image of the earthy,
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53
For this corruptible must put on INCORRUPTION, and
this mortal must put on IMMORTALITY. 54 So

when this corruptible shall have put on INCORRUPTION, and
this mortal shall have put on IMMORTALITY, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,

"Death is swallowed up in victory!"  (Isaiah 25:8)

55 "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?"  (Hosea 13:14)

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ (our Master Yeeshuwa` the Messiah)!

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

They certainly DO! You just don't read them sufficiently!

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

No, sir! This is a MISUNDERSTANDING of the word "spiritual!" You DON'T know what you're talking about!

"SPIRITUAL" does NOT mean "NON-PHYSICAL!" If that's what you believe, then it's NO WONDER that you get this wrong! "Spiritual" means "BLASTING like the wind!" And, "natural" (or rather, "soul-ual") means "breathing naturally." It's comparing a person's normal breathing with a GALE FORCE WIND!

So, when one reads ....

Revelation 20:1-6 (KJV)

1 And I saw an angel (messenger) come down from heaven (from the sky), having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon (lizard), that old serpent (the original snake), which is the Devil (the Accuser), and Satan (the Enemy), and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

That's ALL LITERAL!!!

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls (the air-breathing-creatures) of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus (i.e., RESURRECTED), and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This is ALL LITERAL!!!

REAL people REALLY physically raised to life REALLY physically living and reigning with the Messiah of God, David's REAL HEIR, for a REAL 1,000-year period!

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

2 Peter 3:8KJV

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This is SO IRONICALLY FUNNY! You're trying to use 2 Peter 3:8 to show that the 1,000 years of Revelation 20 is not really 1,000 years, when it should be JUST THE OPPOSITE! You should be using the REAL 1,000 years of Revelation 20 to show that the "one day" in 2 Peter 3:8-10 is actually a THOUSAND years! You're trying to "squeeze the orange through the wrong end of the juicer!"

[truth7t7]

14 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

This is how Jesus will END the battle of Armageddon.

I haven't sidestepped anything or ignored anything.  That is your guilt.

Your suggestion that the Lord's fire is "Localized" to a battle in Megiddo/Armageddon is a complete distortion of scripture before your eyes, the fire will be "Global" No mortal human survives the Lord's last day fire in judgement (The End)

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV

2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV

6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV

3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV

5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV

15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

[FreeGrace]

10 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Your suggestion that the Lord's fire is "Localized" to a battle in Megiddo/Armageddon is a complete distortion of scripture before your eyes, the fire will be "Global" No mortal human survives the Lord's last day fire in judgement (The End)

Since I've already given you a very solid and rational explanation of what "the end" can refer to, there is no need to just keep repeating myself.  You seem unable to properly read Scripture.  I don't know what you agenda is, but it isn't involved with the truth of Scripture.

Your totally misguided and gobbly-gook "explanation" of Rev 20:1-6 proved beyond any doubt that you have no idea what's going on.  You couldn't even explain any indivual verses.

10 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

Sure, it you just cut Rev 20 out of your Bible.  The Bible is totally consistent, but with your misunderstanding of Rev 20, it doesn't, so you just spiritualize it out of your way.

10 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

Revelation 21:1-5KJV

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

All this follows IMMEDIATELY the MK and the GWT judgment.

10 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Matthew 24:29-30KJV

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Yes, you can count on it. 

10 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

This refers to the Bema, or the Judgment Seat of Christ.  2 Cor 5:10

10 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Psalm 97:5KJV

5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

When the Lord fulfills the Scripture regarding the melting of the elements, you can be sure rhe hills will melt along with the rest of the earth.

10 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Isaiah 66:15KJV

15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

This is the Second Advent.

10 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

This is either the battle of Armageddon or Gog and Magog.  Take your pick.

10 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Revelation 20:9KJV

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

So you don't "spiritualize" the verses that you agree with.  Why do you "spiritualize" the previous 8 verses, that are just as literal?

v.9 occurs at THE END of the MK when God sends fire from heaven and devours EVERY living mortal on earth.  The next 6 verses describe what happens to all unbelievers and Satan as well.

[DeighAnn]

On 2/7/2023 at 4:37 AM, Selah7 said:

@DeighAnn

Who is it that partakes of the FIRST Resurrection, and when?  

 

What is a FIRST resurrection?  

We have those who are born and while they yet live, come to faith and belief, and never die.  

That takes place 'every man in his own order'.  Aka we live, our first body dies and we follow Him to be where He is and we return with Him.  

The WHEN is established by the 'everyman in his own order'/of them that slept/those who are His at His return' which are ALL at different times, 

so we know a FIRST resurrection CAN NOT be about a 'certain day' or a specific time because IF, as some teach it is a 'LAST DAY', it would MAKE VOID the words of God. 

You can go back in this thread a hundred pages and besides someone STATING/proclaiming/insisting that they believe 'a verse to state' such and such a thing,

THEY never address the conflicts it creates NOR do they ever propose a solution.  And we KNOW if it could be done it would be.  So, It is EITHER every man in his own order and then those when He returns, OR IT ISN'T.  It can't be both.  


Since it is THE DEAD who 'rise' when He returns, and NOT THE LIVING/never die, that are returning WITH HIM,  the FIRST resurrection CANT be on that day or at that time. 

SO IT MUST BE OF KIND

Those who HEAR HIS VOICE and follow Him and NEVER DESCEND into hell but follow Him straight to heaven, they are of a FIRST resurrection, they never die. 

Doesn't matter if they lived and died and were raised 5 years after Christ or 2000 years after Christ, they ARE OF GOD and not of this world and they 

DON'T NEED ANOTHER CHANCE or even a 1st chance out from the DEAD. 

They don't need to be RAISED up out from the dead when Christ returns they are already with Him.  They don't need to do WORKS to get their names put in the book of life like THE DEAD that rise do before the GWTJ

because they CAME TO LIFE while they yet LIVED AND are judged at the seat of Christ in heaven by FAITH, not works.  Their FIRST resurrection took place when they went from DEAD to ALIVE by faith.  God is not a respecter of persons.  Those born 100 years ago are not WAITING for Christs return to be with Christ.  

Can we be POSITIVE?  Yes, because IT IS WRITTEN


15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord


shall not prevent them which are asleep.

The final generation that will be 'alive and remaining' DON'T STOP all those who have come before from going to be with the Lord.  

The verse PREVIOUS to that one ALSO tells us for sure that

14For if we believe that

Jesus died and rose again

EVEN SO THEM

also which sleep in Jesus

will God

bring with Him.


So EVERYONE who doesn't GO TO HELL and await the return of Christ

but INSTEAD FOLLOW HIM BECAUSE THE NEVER DIE ARE OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION.  

Try it.  TRY and find somewhere, anywhere within the words of God where IT DOESN'T REMAIN true/TRUTH

or even try and find a place in what is written where IT CAUSES CONFLICT because that is when you KNOW you are on the narrow path.   

IT is written and
it doesn't conflict and
it doesn't make void the words of God.  

How can we be sure it is not of time or day or place?  You have 100 pages in JUST THIS THREAD showing us that NO ONE can resolve the problem ANY OTHER WAY.  

One guy says it is of a last day.  One guy says it is of a 'certain' people.  One guy says it is of a 'kind of death'.  AND there is ALWAYS some sort of conflict that proves THOSE can't be GODS TRUTH.

 25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: (OF THEM THAT SLEPT)


26And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?



NOTICE WHAT THE SUBJECT ISN'T? 

THE END OF THE WORLD.  THE END OF THE TRIBULATION.  A 'LAST DAY'.  His return.  

YES, martha did say SHE KNEW....but Jesus NEVER AGREED but instead corrected her.

The 'last day' WASN'T the RESURRECTION, AS she had been taught, HE WAS has been ever since the NEW COVENANT came in and DOES what could NOT be done under the law, that being things like

forgive sin and wash us clean and pay the ransom....


So in simple, those who come to believe and are saved before they die and everyman in his own order...
  

[DeighAnn]

On 2/7/2023 at 10:36 AM, truth7t7 said:

Scripture clearly teaches the dead in Christ will be with Jesus at his return, and it teaches at the event of the second coming, the dead will receive their awaited upon glorified body in the twinkling of an eye (The End)

Scripture clearly teaches THE NEVER DIE will be coming with Jesus at His return the second Advent,

JUST AS
Scripture CLEARLY teaches at the event of the second coming, 

THE DEAD WILL RISE

so, it is YOU and not the words of God and/or what is written

that teach such a thing

as 'glorified bodies' coming from the CORRUPTION of the earth.


 

Only thing coming up from the corruption of the earth at the return of Christ

IS THE DEAD.

BOTH THE JUST AND UNJUST DEAD but none the less THE DEAD.  They may even BE 'in Christ' but they remain, NONE THE LESS, the DEAD.


YOU KNOW WHO ISN'T DEAD? nor will be 'the dead' when Christ returns?

THE LIVING.  THE NEVER DIE.  Because NOT ONLY are they NOT THE DEAD before that day

THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN IN the dead



NOR will the LIVING ever be in

THE CORRUPTION OF THE EARTH.  That is for those of THIS WORLD. 

And those DEAD that are raised up from corruption,

DON'T INHERIT incorruption

PROVING they are not THE NEVER DIE having 'at some point' been 'RENDERED' the dead.  

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
 

42So also is the resurrection of the dead.

It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:

it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 IF what you CLAIM was written YOU WOULD have already PRODUCE IT

in GODS WORDS,

and not always JUST repeating your own words.