Jump to content
IGNORED

Do people of other religions who never heard of Gospel can receive forgiveness at the GWT ?


Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  93
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  2,057
  • Content Per Day:  0.54
  • Reputation:   1,759
  • Days Won:  4
  • Joined:  12/09/2014
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

What may be known of God, God reveals to all.  

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who [d]suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is [e]manifest [f]in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 

It is what people do with that knowledge that defines them.  Can Jesus save someone if they never heard his name?  Yes I think so if their response to God is genuine and pure

  • Thumbs Up 1

  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  93
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  2,057
  • Content Per Day:  0.54
  • Reputation:   1,759
  • Days Won:  4
  • Joined:  12/09/2014
  • Status:  Offline

Posted
32 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

I am not sure either; I cannot even wrap my head around the concept of unmerited favor, other than we do not deserve it and naturally cannot earn it. I have yet to hear of anyone in 100% harmony in their theology and hermeneutics.

Grace is God giving us what we do not deserve - Salvation

Mercy is God not giving us what we do deserve - Judgement

 

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all [f]and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 

24 being justified [g]freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 

25 whom God set forth as a [h]propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  11
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,848
  • Content Per Day:  2.92
  • Reputation:   1,956
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/29/2021
  • Status:  Offline

Posted
1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

Good morning, the following is only my opinion.

Anyone with the Beast's mark or kneeling before God at the Great White Throne judgment is already condemned. Their fate is set in concrete, and those people will be judged and sentenced according to their "works."

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. [emphasis added]

It appears just as Christians (and those with saving faith like Abraham) will receive different crowns and rewards based on their faith, service, and fruit produced. A person that does not possess saving faith likewise will receive judgment based on their works, but all will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

A person's good works apart from God are like filthy rags. Would it be just and fair for a person who tried to live a moral life and did many good works for humanity apart from having saving faith in God to receive the same or worse pain, torment, and suffering as, say, Hitler, Stalin, or Pol Pot? The Lord's wrath and judgment are always "measured" in proportion to His will.

Speaking of "measured," every person has been given a measure of truth and understanding throughout history. That includes people living in the deepest jungles of Africa and South America, everyone who has never heard. I think the standard for those pre-Gospel, and those that have never heard the Gospel is:

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [without the excuse of what?]

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the Grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. [emphasis added]

Bible scholars have divided all human history into dispensations (Innocence, conscience, human government, promise, law, Grace, divine government, and redeemed and faithful angels).

One can observe it in a child; they inherently know right from wrong, good from evil. I would cite some examples, but this has already grown too long.

Suffice it to say; the standard is acting upon, seeking God and the truth, with the measure of faith, trust, truth, and awareness each person is given and repenting.  

I believe the following applies to the dispensation of Grace in which we are living and beyond:

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The Gospel was hidden and a mystery before the arrival of Jesus. The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed. The New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.

Ephesians 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 1 Timothy 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

 

You hold, more or less, the majority view. I held it for a decade or so and then was more comfortable with another view - which I've posted already. I would like, in the friendliest way, to point out a few things which you could perhaps consider over time. (I actaully think that you've already considered them. You are knowledgeable and diligent with scripture. The following are the major problems we face. with this judgment.

  1. All Christians will be judged at the Bema, in the sky, at our Lord's coming (or better said "presence"). So why is the Book of Life present at the White Throne?
  2. God's promise to Abraham was that "IN him would all the families of the earth be blessed". How can this be if 99% of the all men who ever lived go to the Lake of Fire
  3. Although it is clear that all are judged on their works, there is a strong tendency to make FAITH the criteria. This is because a man's sin and sins are set aside because of FAITH in Jesus and His Work and John 3:18 gives the reason for condemnation as no faith - not works
  4. And if this be true, how will Israel be forgiven?

The astute Bible student will at once admit that we have almost the same problems with the judgment of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25:31-46.

  1. There, "All Nations" are judged.
  2. They are judged at the "Throne" (Thronos - Gk. - not Bema like the Christians)
  3. They are judged on how they treated "the least of the Lord's BRETHREN". The word "brethren" could mean Israelite because they have a common father - Abraham. Or it could mean Christian for we are, by the New Birth, brothers of Jesus. What ever, the Sheep AND the Goats are CONTRASTED with Jesus' brethren. So together with the description "ALL Nations", the Sheep could NOT be Christians. If so, why and how do they "enter LIFE"

If these facts are introduced then we already have problems with both these judgments. If we add the common Christian viewpoint that the "bad" ones go to hell, then we automatically overturn the Reformation because we admit that a man goes to hell FOR WORKS! But this is not the case.


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  32
  • Topic Count:  675
  • Topics Per Day:  0.09
  • Content Count:  59,902
  • Content Per Day:  7.65
  • Reputation:   31,303
  • Days Won:  326
  • Joined:  12/29/2003
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

Matt 25:31-46

31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 "And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You drink? 38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 'And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' 41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' 44 "Then they themselves also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." 
NASB

 

  • Loved it! 1
  • Thanks 1

  • Group:  Servant
  • Followers:  22
  • Topic Count:  219
  • Topics Per Day:  0.10
  • Content Count:  12,035
  • Content Per Day:  5.74
  • Reputation:   9,830
  • Days Won:  45
  • Joined:  09/12/2019
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  01/09/1956

Posted
8 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

God's promise to Abraham was that "IN him would all the families of the earth be blessed". How can this be if 99% of the all men who ever lived go to the Lake of Fire

I see problems with this logic.

First of all 99% is n arbitrary figure, which I figure you know, but it bears mentioning.

Secondly, unless you are suggesting universalism, this most likely means that members of all families are blessed, which is in fact what has and is happening.


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  9
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  1,070
  • Content Per Day:  1.02
  • Reputation:   622
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  07/26/2022
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

One thing the scriptures teach is that God is kind, merciful, and fair. I believe every person who ever lived has the chance for salvation. How exactly this happens is a mystery. However in Romans we are told that God has given all mankind 2 witnesses to himself, creation & conscience. It also says that people will be judged by the light they receive. Therefore, people who have never heard the gospel ( if they reject God ) will have a smaller punishment than someone now who hears about God all the time. The kind of God is a bit of a mystery, BUT we can have confidence that everyone will be judged fairly in God's court. 


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  93
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  2,057
  • Content Per Day:  0.54
  • Reputation:   1,759
  • Days Won:  4
  • Joined:  12/09/2014
  • Status:  Offline

Posted
33 minutes ago, AdHoc said:
  • all Christians will be judged at the Bema, in the sky, at our Lord's coming (or better said "presence"). So why is the Book of Life present at the White Throne?
  • God's promise to Abraham was that "IN him would all the families of the earth be blessed". How can this be if 99% of the all men who ever lived go to the Lake of Fire
  • Although it is clear that all are judged on their works, there is a strong tendency to make FAITH the criteria. This is because a man's sin and sins are set aside because of FAITH in Jesus and His Work and John 3:18 gives the reason for condemnation as no faith - not works
  • And if this be true, how will Israel be forgiven?
  • The book is at the great throne because an accounting is to be made.   We are not saved by works, but our works will condemn us if we have rejected the Grace of Christ
  • All all nations were blessed, for through Abraham came Christ and everyone in the world who accepts Christ is saved
  • The judgment of the sav ed is not to determine salvation but reward, but even  (1 Cor 3:15) If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
  • Jesus said Israel will be cut off and a new vine grafted in...the new israel.

It is faith in The Messiah that saves, Hebrews 11 tells us that the Patriarchs had faith in the coming Christ, and we have faith in the Risen Christ but it is the same faith, the same Christ who saves all in all - to those who repent and believe

 

 

  • Thanks 1

  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  110
  • Topics Per Day:  0.05
  • Content Count:  2,667
  • Content Per Day:  1.31
  • Reputation:   1,439
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  11/06/2019
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  03/25/1961

Posted

"Do people of other religions who never heard of Gospel can receive forgiveness at the GWT"

Oh yes praise God glory to Jesus. What did Christ say? If you were blind you would have no sin you say you see your sin remains. Most are blind. Then all the religions out there again blind. I believe as is written His laws are written on our hearts so those in the GWT answer to the light they had within them and what they did with it. Still hard to judge someone on a truth they never knew never heard. Yet they/we all know a GOD is out there and we all know to do good or bad. 

The number of those from every tribe and nation? Yeah no one can number. That's how many will be there YES AMEN!

  • Interesting! 1

  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  17
  • Topic Count:  84
  • Topics Per Day:  0.05
  • Content Count:  13,727
  • Content Per Day:  7.46
  • Reputation:   17,791
  • Days Won:  143
  • Joined:  05/24/2020
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

I'm in agreement with some regarding the dead, who are resurrected to judged by the Lord upon His throne in the end. There may be some of the dead whose names are found in His book of life, and so they will be spared from the lake of fire. 

The relevant scripture from Revelation does not state that all of the dead were cast into the lake of fire; only those whose names were not found in His book of life were cast into the fire. That's what answers the question asked by the OP. 

So, yes. 

  • Thumbs Up 1

  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  11
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,848
  • Content Per Day:  2.92
  • Reputation:   1,956
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/29/2021
  • Status:  Offline

Posted
4 hours ago, Alive said:

I see problems with this logic.

First of all 99% is n arbitrary figure, which I figure you know, but it bears mentioning.

Secondly, unless you are suggesting universalism, this most likely means that members of all families are blessed, which is in fact what has and is happening.

99% was and is arbitrary. No one knows the percentage, but that first Pentecost, which had the full power of the Holy Spirit tells a story. Jerusalem had, under Roman occupation, a population of about 400,000. During the Feasts this swelled to over a million. Acts 2 tells us that the crowds were made of "pious Jews" - men who were cut to the heart when they heard what had happened. Acts 2 also tells us that "about three thousand converted that day. Let's say (arbitrarily I again admit) that three quarters heard about Peter's address. That's 750,000. 3,000 converted. This gives o.4 %. 1% is still arbitrary, but you can see where it comes from. 

You're correct. I do not propose universalism. Every family on earth will be blessed by the Seed IN Abraham. This is achieved at least in two ways. Galatians 3:14 says that the actual blessing promised was the Holy Spirit. But that is by no means all the families on earth. So there is a second way that men are blessed. That is, by having a righteous and fair government. Proverbs 29:2 says: "When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn." The present rule on this earth is Satanic. It will be replaced after Armageddon. The new Kingdom will be "righteousness, peace and joy". During the Millennium there will be no more war, health, wealth and long life. On the New Earth will be no war, no shortage of anything, all things made new and no death. In this way will every family on earth be blessed by what was IN Abraham. Note that it is not "every man" - for there will be those in the Lake of Fire.

Of course, I am aware that a vast Christian majority believe that all unbelievers are going to hell. God's Word and God's honor are at stake because this effectively annuls the promises to Abraham.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • You are coming up higher in this season – above the assignments of character assassination and verbal arrows sent to manage you, contain you, and derail your purpose. Where you have had your dreams and sleep robbed, as well as your peace and clarity robbed – leaving you feeling foggy, confused, and heavy – God is, right now, bringing freedom back -- now you will clearly see the smoke and mirrors that were set to distract you and you will disengage.

      Right now God is declaring a "no access zone" around you, and your enemies will no longer have any entry point into your life. Oil is being poured over you to restore the years that the locust ate and give you back your passion. This is where you will feel a fresh roar begin to erupt from your inner being, and a call to leave the trenches behind and begin your odyssey in your Christ calling moving you to bear fruit that remains as you minister to and disciple others into their Christ identity.

      This is where you leave the trenches and scale the mountain to fight from a different place, from victory, from peace, and from rest. Now watch as God leads you up higher above all the noise, above all the chaos, and shows you where you have been seated all along with Him in heavenly places where you are UNTOUCHABLE. This is where you leave the soul fight, and the mind battle, and learn to fight differently.

      You will know how to live like an eagle and lead others to the same place of safety and protection that God led you to, which broke you out of the silent prison you were in. Put your war boots on and get ready to fight back! Refuse to lay down -- get out of bed and rebuke what is coming at you. Remember where you are seated and live from that place.

      Acts 1:8 - “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses … to the end of the earth.”

       

      ALBERT FINCH MINISTRY
        • Thanks
        • This is Worthy
        • Thumbs Up
      • 3 replies
    • George Whitten, the visionary behind Worthy Ministries and Worthy News, explores the timing of the Simchat Torah War in Israel. Is this a water-breaking moment? Does the timing of the conflict on October 7 with Hamas signify something more significant on the horizon?

       



      This was a message delivered at Eitz Chaim Congregation in Dallas Texas on February 3, 2024.

      To sign up for our Worthy Brief -- https://worthybrief.com

      Be sure to keep up to date with world events from a Christian perspective by visiting Worthy News -- https://www.worthynews.com

      Visit our live blogging channel on Telegram -- https://t.me/worthywatch
      • 0 replies
    • Understanding the Enemy!

      I thought I write about the flip side of a topic, and how to recognize the attempts of the enemy to destroy lives and how you can walk in His victory!

      For the Apostle Paul taught us not to be ignorant of enemy's tactics and strategies.

      2 Corinthians 2:112  Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. 

      So often, we can learn lessons by learning and playing "devil's" advocate.  When we read this passage,

      Mar 3:26  And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. 
      Mar 3:27  No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strongman; and then he will spoil his house. 

      Here we learn a lesson that in order to plunder one's house you must first BIND up the strongman.  While we realize in this particular passage this is referring to God binding up the strongman (Satan) and this is how Satan's house is plundered.  But if you carefully analyze the enemy -- you realize that he uses the same tactics on us!  Your house cannot be plundered -- unless you are first bound.   And then Satan can plunder your house!

      ... read more
        • Oy Vey!
        • Praise God!
        • Thanks
        • Well Said!
        • Brilliant!
        • Loved it!
        • This is Worthy
        • Thumbs Up
      • 230 replies
    • Daniel: Pictures of the Resurrection, Part 3

      Shalom everyone,

      As we continue this study, I'll be focusing on Daniel and his picture of the resurrection and its connection with Yeshua (Jesus). 

      ... read more
        • Praise God!
        • Brilliant!
        • Loved it!
        • This is Worthy
        • Thumbs Up
      • 13 replies
    • Abraham and Issac: Pictures of the Resurrection, Part 2
      Shalom everyone,

      As we continue this series the next obvious sign of the resurrection in the Old Testament is the sign of Isaac and Abraham.

      Gen 22:1  After these things God tested Abraham and said to him, "Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am."
      Gen 22:2  He said, "Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you."

      So God "tests" Abraham and as a perfect picture of the coming sacrifice of God's only begotten Son (Yeshua - Jesus) God instructs Issac to go and sacrifice his son, Issac.  Where does he say to offer him?  On Moriah -- the exact location of the Temple Mount.

      ...read more
        • Well Said!
        • This is Worthy
        • Thumbs Up
      • 20 replies
×
×
  • Create New...