The Unpardonable Sin

[Marathoner]

@Starise, if you blasphemed the Spirit of the Lord, you wouldn't agonize about it. All manner of things, whether they be foolish or borne of ignorance, will not result in the Lord abandoning us.

We can do stupid things. We can be utterly mistaken. We can blow it royally, miss the boat, sulk, or even lash out in anger at the Lord. 

The Lord is faithful to finish that work He started in us, but I know there are some who believe we can lose the gift which God bestowed upon us through His Son. I'm not writing to change anyone's belief hut rather, to encourage you with my own example.

I did all of those things I mentioned above not for a little while, but for a very long time. Years... decades. I fell, and fell hard. I believed the Lord despised me.

I was utterly mistaken about that!

I had no clue. That sums up man rather well, yes? I fit the bill, brother. If you had known me 30 years ago, then ran into me about 10 years ago, here's what you would ask:

"Marathoner, what on earth happened to you? You're a completely different person!" 

I would tell you, "The Lord. The Lord happened to me, brother. He has had His way with me for the past 20 years."

My lumps had lumps. 

 

[AdHoc]

3 hours ago, Starise said:

 I wonder if the accusation was entirely of human origin. Jesus told the Pharisees they were of their father the devil. I say this because I believe they KNEW they were lying when they did it.  They were the kind that would say anything to win true or not. If they were truly ignorant to this, on what grounds could they claim ignorance? God's signals are not easily misinterpreted.

Very valid points David, but man, you come on like a hornet's nest. Possibly @Jayne has some reasoning to justify her views? Could just be an honest mistake too. I very much enjoy Jane's input. I don't recall anything that would place a timing dependent on this to my knowledge. Maybe there is some more to the idea I am unaware of.

AdHoc, I appreciate your breakdown of context here within the framework of what is required to be saved and fully secured. It all maybe seems to some as if there are a lot of hoops to jump through, but really it all happens by simple confession and repentence of sin, putting our Faith in Christ. I feel affirmed that my actions many years ago did not result in my inability to be saved. Never have I denied the power of God or attributed His power to any other than Himself.

I also see your point in claiming a brother or sister are saying things from the devil in blasphemy here because maybe they don't entirely fit into our reality, or maybe we don't immediately understand. Such judgements would be also a form of the same things and very dangerous waters to be treading in. I think we need strong biblical basis and support for such claims. All too easy to jump prematurely to conclusions.

I think it is important you touched on some of the internal process these types of people have to go through to be in this frame of mind. 

In the case of these references in Mark, immediately before the rebuke from Jesus on the unforgivable sin, slander is mentioned as one of the sins that would be foregiven. Obviously then, running someone down is very different than attributing God's Holy Spirit power to Satan in a knowing act of blasphemy.

Let me ask you this, do you think the Pharisees could have been saved afterwards> Or do you feel, like David indicates, they all are waiting to be kindling in hell today?  Is it possible for someone who is an unbeliever living in denial, who more than insinuates that maybe we are all duped and follow Satan who has fooled us all, could such a person still be redeemed? My opinion has always been that yes, they can be redeemed if they change their heart or maybe more accurately if God changes their hearts.

I can't pin down specific historical people who were known to have attributed God's real working power to the devil other than pharisees and atheists, and I think that in the case of atheists, it is more of a taunt. There have been plenty who were against God, maybe they claim He didn't exist who later became believers. The secret gnostics do a similar thing in making the Devil out to be the good guy and our God the bad loser through the twisting of history and the deception of the craft. Never mind the child sacrifice and crude gross practices they perform as if they are normal things. If that doesn't tip one off, I don't know what will.

Your perceptive answer has exposed a weakness in mine. I did not emphasize the salient point.

The people who attribute a work of the Holy Spirit of God are those with knowledge of such things. And those who have knowledge of such things are deeply dependent on a favorable outcome FOR THE NEXT AGE. Of the three peoples on earth, two are dependent on how the next age pans out for them - the Israelite and the Christian. For discussion I proffer two scriptures. 

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt (Da 12:1–2)

24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. (Mt 16:24–28)

Daniel is written for "Daniel's People". Michael is the Chief Angel for Israel. The Great Tribulation has its center at Jerusalem because Israel choose a Gentile king to insert in the holy of Holies (Mat.24:15-22). Israel will be recovered (Ezek.37, Rom.11, Act.15:14-16). The recovery is due to the Covenant made with Abraham. Those written in the Book are the 144,000 of Revelation 7:1-8. The "many" of verse 2 should read "all", but if a Jew is not circumcised he is to be "cut off from his people". There will be many who are not recovered because they broke covenant. We Christian students of the bible call this AGE after Israel's restoration "The Messianic Age". Of the Israelites who are restored to their Land, verse 2 says that there will be those who enjoy Christ's rule, but the guilty will be restored but IN DISGRACE. The Next age - the Messianic Age, will produce joy and fame OR shame and contempt. Romans 11 says that Israel will receive unmerited grace, and despite not believing till the end, be restored. Now, let's take Solomon.

Solomon achieved great fame in his life. He was the wealthiest and wisest king Israel had. His kingdom of 40 years knew NO war. Prosperity was the order of the day and Solomon enjoyed the attention of 700 wives and 300 concubines. Yet God was so displeased with him that He ripped the northern Kingdom of Israel from his House - Judah. Solomon enjoy his 70 years, but when he is part of the restoration of Israel, he will suffer shame and "everlasting" contempt. the NEXT AGE is vitally important to every Jew - and it lasts 1,000 years. The Pharisees need FORGIVENESS now and in the next age. They could have been FORGIVEN for the murder of Jesus. he prayed so on the cross. But they could never be FORGIVEN for attributing Jesus casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub. The Jew who commits this sin has the old Testament. He knows about God and His Spirit. He is a prime candidate for the unforgivable sin.

So also the Christian. This age and the next AGE are very important. "Losing your soul" is the combined result of suffering and self denial. the "Gaining" of your soul is "joy" or bliss. Those Christians who lived deliciously in this age and were not prepared to put themselves aside for the sake of the coming KINGDOM ON EARTH, will experience "weeping and gnashing of teeth" IN THE NEXT AGE. If there was any redeeming factors that God could have used to usher them into the Millennial Kingdom, He WILL NOT FORGIVE their slander. A Christian has the bible. he knows about spirits and angels. He knows the Triune God. He is in the KNOW! He is a prime candidate for slander of the Holy Spirit. Just let things go wrong for him in the are of his most ambition. The spoiled Christian is in danger. He badly needs maximum forgiveness IN THE NEXT AGE but could forfeit it all by slander.

The Gentile is in less danger than the Jew or Christian. He is in UNBELIEF. God doesn't cross his mind. He curses at misfortune, but does not bring God into it. He doesn't even think of God from one crisis to the next. He attributes evil in his life to "bad luck".

I propose that the unforgivable sin is more likely to be committed by a Christian than anybody else. The next age is very important to me. It is then that rewards are dished out. This life had tears and I was expected to give my money and coat away. Suffering is my portion and persecution guaranteed. I need God's favorable decision at the Judgment Seat.

Let me close with an example. On this Forum people are mostly polite. But I've been on others where a novice student of the Bible - a Christian, called me a teacher of the devil. It could always be that I am wrong. But if my posting, and the truths that were in it, were from the Holy Spirit, that brother comes close to what we are discussing. I still think that brother will be forgiven as it was caused by ignorance and not conspiracy, but we ALL should be very careful with our mouths. The NEXT AGE is very important.

[DeighAnn]

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

But confusion reigns as to the consequences. Why? All the major truths of scripture are cast into confusion by the belief that being saved for a Christian means going to heaven. This doctrine annuls the need of resurrection. This doctrine annuls Christ's Kingdom on earth. This doctrine leaves death undefeated. And this doctrine attributes to God defeat because He made man of the earth and FOR the earth (Gen.1:26-28). But if God is to achieve what He planned, and what the prophets, old and new Testament, say, then THIS AGE and the NEXT AGE are vitally important for men. The consequences of slander against the third Person of the Triune God become crucial to TWO AGES. The salvation of man is FIVE-FOLD:

If you are going to put it that way, I am sure you understand why I believe this is necessary.  

All major truths of Scripture are cast into confusion

by the belief that being SAVED means

'death and dying JUST LIKE THE UNSAVED aka 'Dying and going to be amongst the dead, so as to be resurrected out from the dead when Christ returns (the opposite of never dying), IN a decomposing body raised up OUT of the corruption, that in its entirety REQUIRES BLOOD, and calling it a 'raised up glorified spiritual body' etc.

AND rendering VOID the words of Jesus when He said 'NEVER DIE and Follow Me and be where I am, along with He will come receive us and bring to the Father AND return with Him in the army to rule and reign'

GOING to heaven DOESN'T annul the need for resurrection as the resurrection takes place BEFORE going to be amongst the dead, because you never die and you FOLLOW HIM to the place He went to prepare for us.  He is in heaven.  WE will go to heaven and then we will return with Him.

It DOESN'T annul Christ kingdom on earth, but PRE TRIB RAP of the body of Christ SURE WOULD

Going 'to heaven' is the ONLY way to PROVE DEATH was defeated BECAUSE DEATH 'doesn't hold us in bondage', like it did before Christ and the work on the cross, the opposite of NEVER DIE to be resurrected OUT FROM the dead.  

WE are no different than Christ as PARTAKERS of the flesh and blood, Pilgrams on the earth.  We RETURN to GOD meaning we with with HIM previously.   Just like Jesus.  We RETURN with Christ to the earth.  Pre trib has 'the church' going to heaven.  How would that be different than when the flesh dies going to heaven?  

Don't fear the death of the flesh body as we have another.  

BUT DON'T BELIEVE WHAT I SAY, THE WORDS OF GOD DO A MUCH BETTER JOB SO HERE IS WHAT IS WRITTEN, SO YOU KNOW IT IS TRUTH
 

1 Cor 15
19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


John 6

54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

John 11
25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

13
36Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

14
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


Isaiah 61
11The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;


Matt 27
50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
 

Ephesians 4
8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)



1 Thess 4
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;" Hebrews 2:14 KJV



"Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:" Colossians 1:12 KJV


 

[Selah7]

The UNPARDONABLE sin:
 

Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

- Luke 12:8-12 (KJV)

[grahampaul]

10 hours ago, Starise said:

Many years ago I was certain I had committed the unpardonable sin, even as a believer. I had a very frustrated loose tongue moment and I said some things that had mention of the Holy Ghost in them in a not good way.

I looking back, I believe God forgave me for it, but even to this day when things go bad I look back and wonder if some of it is the result of those words. Not necessarily unforgiven, just that it follows me as an event that should not have ever happend.

Since I'm bringing it up I will post scripture references.

Mark 3:22-30

22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, "He is possessed by Beelzebul! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons." 23 So Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables: "How can Satan drive out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27 In fact, no one can enter a strong man's house without first tying him up. Then he can plunder the strong man's house. 28 Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin." 30 He said this because they were saying, "He has an impure spirit."

Matthew 12:31-32

And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. 33

My understanding of this text is that since the Holy Spirit IS ABSOLUTELY the working force behind our salvation through Jesus, then blasphemy or denying the Holy Spirit's power effectively cancels out the ability to get saved by that individual's choice.

Nearly as I can tell, what makes the sin unforgivable is the ongoing nature of the sin. If an individual however, has a change of heart later on and stops with those attitudes and thoughts, then they are allowing the Holy Spirit to do His work in their life.

The two key phrases in the above passages are " blasphemes against" and "speaks against" which I interpret to mean any unbelief against the HS or attributing the power of the Holy Spirit to Satan. Another consideration is that since God is triune, then speaking against God Himself would also be speaking against the HS correct? Why does Jesus single out the Holy Spirit? In fact in these passages God is not mentioned at all only Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Thoughts? Can somebody help to unpack this a little better?

I would think probably one of the most horrible realizations would be to realize you committed this sin and can't ever become a child of God, although I have been under the impression that those who commit the sin are so spiritually dead, this realization never occurs to them.

the unforgiveable sin is being born of the devils seed, hence Christ to the pharousees
jn8v44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

we know that we are not,for we confess Christ,.and Him rissen.

peace

 

[Starise]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Matthew 12:31-32: My understanding today: Today, we cannot have witnessed the Holy Spirit working through Jesus’ miracles; to call them the work of Satan. Therefore, we cannot commit this particular unpardonable sin. I believe today, the only unpardonable sin we can commit is rejecting the free offer of Salvation given to us by Christ dying on the Cross for our sins. At our last heartbeat, our very last breath, our fate is sealed if we reject Him, those on the fence, and procrastinate or are undecided. There would be no forgiveness after death, no second chances, if one did not accept Jesus as their own personal Savior while they had the opportunity to do so in the flesh. John MacArthur explains it well below.

Thanks for your comments Dennis. Much appreciated. Do you care to elaborate any more on why you think there could be a difference in effect from the time of Jesus ? Aside from Jesus being at the right hand of the Father now, I believe the Spirit still works.If the Spirit still works, then couldn't He also be Blasphemed? Or are you seeing a difference between Jesus miracles and other having gifts to perform miracles?

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

Your perceptive answer has exposed a weakness in mine. I did not emphasize the salient point.

The people who attribute a work of the Holy Spirit of God are those with knowledge of such things. And those who have knowledge of such things are deeply dependent on a favorable outcome FOR THE NEXT AGE. Of the three peoples on earth, two are dependent on how the next age pans out for them - the Israelite and the Christian. For discussion I proffer two scriptures. 

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt (Da 12:1–2)

24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. (Mt 16:24–28)

Daniel is written for "Daniel's People". Michael is the Chief Angel for Israel. The Great Tribulation has its center at Jerusalem because Israel choose a Gentile king to insert in the holy of Holies (Mat.24:15-22). Israel will be recovered (Ezek.37, Rom.11, Act.15:14-16). The recovery is due to the Covenant made with Abraham. Those written in the Book are the 144,000 of Revelation 7:1-8. The "many" of verse 2 should read "all", but if a Jew is not circumcised he is to be "cut off from his people". There will be many who are not recovered because they broke covenant. We Christian students of the bible call this AGE after Israel's restoration "The Messianic Age". Of the Israelites who are restored to their Land, verse 2 says that there will be those who enjoy Christ's rule, but the guilty will be restored but IN DISGRACE. The Next age - the Messianic Age, will produce joy and fame OR shame and contempt. Romans 11 says that Israel will receive unmerited grace, and despite not believing till the end, be restored. Now, let's take Solomon.

Solomon achieved great fame in his life. He was the wealthiest and wisest king Israel had. His kingdom of 40 years knew NO war. Prosperity was the order of the day and Solomon enjoyed the attention of 700 wives and 300 concubines. Yet God was so displeased with him that He ripped the northern Kingdom of Israel from his House - Judah. Solomon enjoy his 70 years, but when he is part of the restoration of Israel, he will suffer shame and "everlasting" contempt. the NEXT AGE is vitally important to every Jew - and it lasts 1,000 years. The Pharisees need FORGIVENESS now and in the next age. They could have been FORGIVEN for the murder of Jesus. he prayed so on the cross. But they could never be FORGIVEN for attributing Jesus casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub. The Jew who commits this sin has the old Testament. He knows about God and His Spirit. He is a prime candidate for the unforgivable sin.

So also the Christian. This age and the next AGE are very important. "Losing your soul" is the combined result of suffering and self denial. the "Gaining" of your soul is "joy" or bliss. Those Christians who lived deliciously in this age and were not prepared to put themselves aside for the sake of the coming KINGDOM ON EARTH, will experience "weeping and gnashing of teeth" IN THE NEXT AGE. If there was any redeeming factors that God could have used to usher them into the Millennial Kingdom, He WILL NOT FORGIVE their slander. A Christian has the bible. he knows about spirits and angels. He knows the Triune God. He is in the KNOW! He is a prime candidate for slander of the Holy Spirit. Just let things go wrong for him in the are of his most ambition. The spoiled Christian is in danger. He badly needs maximum forgiveness IN THE NEXT AGE but could forfeit it all by slander.

The Gentile is in less danger than the Jew or Christian. He is in UNBELIEF. God doesn't cross his mind. He curses at misfortune, but does not bring God into it. He doesn't even think of God from one crisis to the next. He attributes evil in his life to "bad luck".

I propose that the unforgivable sin is more likely to be committed by a Christian than anybody else. The next age is very important to me. It is then that rewards are dished out. This life had tears and I was expected to give my money and coat away. Suffering is my portion and persecution guaranteed. I need God's favorable decision at the Judgment Seat.

Let me close with an example. On this Forum people are mostly polite. But I've been on others where a novice student of the Bible - a Christian, called me a teacher of the devil. It could always be that I am wrong. But if my posting, and the truths that were in it, were from the Holy Spirit, that brother comes close to what we are discussing. I still think that brother will be forgiven as it was caused by ignorance and not conspiracy, but we ALL should be very careful with our mouths. The NEXT AGE is very important.

Thanks @AdHoc Sin is then categorized here by group and  the effects of it in the next age. So then, are you saying that some of the unforgiven sin is not sin to death? Or might it rather be said, it is the repercussion of forgiven sin in the future? The mention of 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' brings up visions of hell for me. Where do you tbelieve God draws the line with worldly Christians?

Your comments on the Gentiles are what's probably at my reasoning for the topic in the first place. I spoke with an atheist, who could be reading this, who said not to pray for them because they had committed the unpardonable sin and just to be sure they indicated they could do it again to be sure they couldn't be saved. After having looked at atheists who eventaully came to Christ, one of the things that we as Christians sometimes misinterpret according to them, is they REALLY did not believe before they became Christians. With a bunch of them, they slowly became agnostic first, then eventually moved to Christianity. I always figured they knew the truth but were squeching it instead, and I understand no two of them are alike, so maybe one denies and another simply does not believe.

I would reason if a person really doesn't believe at the time, then they don't really believe in the God they are blaspheming, therefore in their own eyes it's a joke to them, and in the eyes of God it is really ignorance we are dealing with. If however, the person is in denial of the truth they know to be, if that person is all too aware what they are saying is against the truth, then it appears to be similar to what the pharisees were guilty of with possibly the only difference being the pharisees were on site at the events as they happened, while often atheists will scoff because they claim it doesn't happen. I can't recall ever hearing of an atheist who seen a real miracle. If it did happen though most atheists would probably look for a way to dispute it, unless it happened to them personally.

[grahampaul]

2 minutes ago, grahampaul said:

oops

the unforgiveable sin is being born of the devils seed, hence Christ to the pharasee

jn8v44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

[Starise]

1 hour ago, David1701 said:

We need to respond appropriately to how the other person has posted.  If she had said something like, "I think it could be that...", then your kind of response would have been appropriate.  This was not the case.  What was posted was dogmatic - stated as fact, not conjecture or opinion.  This needed to be dealt with more robustly; in fact, I wish that more people on this forum would deal with this kind of dogmatic error more robustly.  It happens a lot, and it shouldn't; however, because it is treated with kid gloves (and those who correct it are not), the perpetrators seem to think that they can keep getting away with it.

It's in the nature of correcting opinionated error that the culprit will often feel offended (although a wise person would take the rebuke as a blessing, and I've had to receive such rebukes myself, in the past - they are humbling and unpleasant, but very helpful).  The correct response to such a rebuke is apology and repentance, not a desire to be able to continue without being offended; in fact, feeling offended, in such a situation, is a manifestation of the pride that caused the problem in the first place.

Since you responded back to me on this I will respond back.

Rude is rude, would you agree with this? In fact I would be surprised if it hasn't been reported. I haven't done it yet....notice I said 'yet'.

I always looked at reporting like a last ditch effort. I had hoped you would have taken my well meaning suggestions to heart on this. 

What I hear you saying here isn't adding up to anything that I can get a handle on so far as it making sense. Let me see if I have this right- Dogmatic people should all be shouted off the board? That would probably eliminate you 

" Opinionated error" ??? Who gets to make that call and why? Just curious.

If I didn't see it as an overeaction I wouldn't have said anything.

But HONESTLY, I didn't want to get into any of THIS at all. I wanted to stay OT. We veered from the subject matter to accusing an individual, and this is against the TOS unless I misunderstand. Telling a person they need to repent because they hold a different view on a non essential is taking it right off the cliff lol.

 

[Omegaman 3.0]

I have not read the thread, but the way I understand the passage, in context, is that they said that Jesus cast out demons by the power of Beelzebub, the lord of the flies, a  Philistine false god, a demon - even Satan from a Jewish perspective. In essence, they are saying that Jesus cast out demons by the power of an unholy spirit. If Jesus was casting out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit, then the accusers stood guilty of equating the Holy Spirit with Satan, certainly that is a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. All (other) manners of sin can be forgiven. I suspect, that as many of the people as there are who have wondered is they have committed the unpardonable sin, I would guess that nearly none of them have ever called the Holy Spirit a devil.

I would also guess, that if a person did that, and their heart was not already hardened, that God would help then to that self chosen state of being. In such a case, I would imagine that they are not interested in the things of God. Concern, shows a certain amount of faith that God exists, and can punish. It also shows a sense of guilt - probably even repentance. Since it is God who grants repentance, I suggest that implies that the person is either saved, or at least not doomed, and still can follow God and be with Him eternally.

[Omegaman 3.0]

7 hours ago, Starise said:

Rude is rude, would you agree with this? In fact I would be surprised if it hasn't been reported. I haven't done it yet....notice I said 'yet'.

I always looked at reporting like a last ditch effort. I had hoped you would have taken my well meaning suggestions to heart on this. 

To all (not picking on anyone in particular)

FYI, there have been a couple of reports on this thread, do there need to be, should actions be taken? Or do we suppose that we can act like mature Christians and just move on to the topic, not behaviors of participants?