What About Those In Non-Christian Lands Who Have Never Heard The Gospel?

[JAG**]

10 hours ago, other one said:

You have added something to the scripture that isn't there.   Jesus does not mention faith in his statement.   It is not through what we believe that gives us access to the Father, it is a decision made solely by Jesus himself.

It is Jesus who decides what happens to Akua Adisa and I don't think he needs our help to decide.

So I would answer your question in the title of the thread...  Those people are put in the hands of a just and fair loving God to decide what to do with them....      Personally I'd leave it at that, and stay away from philosophers.

 

Thanks for your comments. My view: it is clear to me that you have

solved \this problem by assuming that Jesus is going to save many of them, you just leave it up in the air so you don't have to intellectually deal with it. Meanwhile our brothers and sisters are preaching all over the web THAT JESUS SENDS THEM TO AN ETERNAL HELL.

 

See my new post just above on this issue.

 

Best

 

JAG

 

[]

[Alive]

2 hours ago, other one said:

The contradictions I have experienced and worked through are usually not really understanding something or some things just don't translate well.

Since I discovered my Church of Christ people were telling me things either against scripture or leaving some scripture out at the age of 17, I tend not to get too excited about what other people say about most subjects.

I don't either brother--getting overly excited leads to mistakes.

These issues have been resolved for myself and actually very simple. I am absolutely convinced after much bible study of my point of view. And my views have sure changed over the years.

I have done very large word studies on much of this, so I won't repeat here and now.

1. We know a few things about our Lord and God; he is just, merciful, loving and Gracious. These and other characteristics are where all of His choices flow from.

2. Perish, destruction and destroy have actual clear meaning in scripture. As does Sheol, Grave, Gehenna and Tartarus.

3. God does not torture humans, although there will be gnashing of teeth and the suffering of great loss at the judgement.

4. All born of Adam are doomed to final destruction and God has chosen to rescue some through Jesus Christ's work.

5. He is Gracious to every soul that has ever lived in that He has allowed them to live, love, have families and enjoy this Creation.

6. Many of these non-elect, He destroyed before there natural lives ended--He judges.

God draws some men to Himself according to His will and Plan. The rest of humanity will simply cease to exist. Grace and Mercy.

Gehenna was a trash dump where dead, unconcious, in pain no longer carcasses burned continually. That was where Jews tossed the bodies of babies sacrified to Molech.

Jesus did not teach pagan mythology.

The dead know nothing--until the resurrection and judgement.

The honest student can study these things out.

Can you picture 30 minutes in flames? How about a couple hours. A day, a week, a year, 10 years, 100 years in searing flames? God would have to sustain these with eternal life. There is only one kind of eternal Life and that is Christ.

My God cannot torture humans for an eternity...that is a doctrine of demons and it has done untold damage.

I suggest (reader) getting in your closet and asking the Lord directly, if He will act in such a manner. And do so, without assumptions, but rather with the Word of God as your ally.

I hope and pray that minds will be changed.

[other one]

1 hour ago, JAG** said:

Thanks for your comments. My view: it is clear to me that you have

solved \this problem by assuming that Jesus is going to save many of them, you just leave it up in the air so you don't have to intellectually deal with it. Meanwhile our brothers and sisters are preaching all over the web THAT JESUS SENDS THEM TO AN ETERNAL HELL.

 

See my new post just above on this issue.

 

Best

 

JAG

 

[]

The church I was raised in until about age 17 taught me that no one could go to heaven (escape hell) unless they were baptized by someone in or denomination.     People say and teach things all over the world.   I think that's why the Bible tells us to work out our own salvation with trembling and fear.

If I trust my eternity to Jesus why should I not trust him to take care of anyone with care and justice.   To be a bit blunt, it's really none of my business what he does with anyone who lived anytime in the past.

[Marilyn C]

Man and God`s responsibility.

 

MAN - To obey God from conscience. (Knowing Jesus is extra revelation.)

GOD - To provide payment for sin. (Does NOT depend on people`s knowledge of Jesus)

 

Many people in the OT and now and in the future are/will be saved according to their conscience. However, it is all BECAUSE of Jesus` sacrifice.

[DeighAnn]

9 minutes ago, angels4u said:

Yes ,when Judgment day comes ,everybody will confess Jesus Christ is Lord, but then it's too late to accept Jesus as He will judge the unbelievers ,where did you read everybody will accept Him ,do you believe in hell,the place where unbelievers go ?

Is it at the GWTJ everybody will confess or is it at the beginning of the Lords Day?


So, when is when too late?  Would you agree

ALL Unsaved People aka 'the dead' who have died, have gone to the place of the 'dead'. 

Some are them are 'just souls' just NOT SAVED yet souls, so not yet condemned to the 2nd death,

Some are 'unjust' souls, NOT SAVED yet not YET condemned to the 2nd death

Some are unjust and have 'chosen death' and are NOT RISING when Christ returns, already condemned to the 2nd death but rise at the very end to go into the lake of fire. 


The just and unjust UNSAVED DEAD who do rise when Christ returns have THE LORDS DAY, the 1000 years, to get their names into the book of life THROUGH THEIR WORKS or failing that go into the lake of fire for the eternal punishment the 2nd death.  Like the dew that disappears over the meadow when the sun rises and is no more or like the smoke goes up and finally disappears, so do they

The 'condemned' will not rising until the END OF THE LORDS DAY, and they go into the Lake of Fire.  



 

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

their WORKS.  If it were the 'never die' or the 'living' they would be judged by their FAITH.  

So, the dead were those who were 'ruled over' aka 'the nations'

by the army that returned with Christ

and the alive and remaining that were changed and joined them





AND ONCE THOSE DEAD that rose when Christ returned were judged....THEN

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[angels4u]

Just now, DeighAnn said:

Is it at the GWTJ everybody will confess or is it at the beginning of the Lords Day?


So, when is when too late?  Would you agree

ALL Unsaved People aka 'the dead' who have died, have gone to the place of the 'dead'. 

Some are them are 'just souls' just NOT SAVED yet souls, so not yet condemned to the 2nd death,

Some are 'unjust' souls, NOT SAVED yet not YET condemned to the 2nd death

Some are unjust and have 'chosen death' and are NOT RISING when Christ returns, already condemned to the 2nd death but rise at the very end to go into the lake of fire. 


The just and unjust UNSAVED DEAD who do rise when Christ returns have THE LORDS DAY, the 1000 years, to get their names into the book of life THROUGH THEIR WORKS or failing that go into the lake of fire for the eternal punishment the 2nd death.  Like the dew that disappears over the meadow when the sun rises and is no more or like the smoke goes up and finally disappears, so do they

The 'condemned' will not rising until the END OF THE LORDS DAY, and they go into the Lake of Fire.  



 

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

their WORKS.  If it were the 'never die' or the 'living' they would be judged by their FAITH.  

So, the dead were those who were 'ruled over' aka 'the nations'

by the army that returned with Christ

and the alive and remaining that were changed and joined them





AND ONCE THOSE DEAD that rose when Christ returned were judged....THEN

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

Quote

is it at the GWTJ everybody will confess

Yes,don't you think?

[NConly]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Is it at the GWTJ everybody will confess or is it at the beginning of the Lords Day?


So, when is when too late?  Would you agree

ALL Unsaved People aka 'the dead' who have died, have gone to the place of the 'dead'. 

Some are them are 'just souls' just NOT SAVED yet souls, so not yet condemned to the 2nd death,

Some are 'unjust' souls, NOT SAVED yet not YET condemned to the 2nd death

Some are unjust and have 'chosen death' and are NOT RISING when Christ returns, already condemned to the 2nd death but rise at the very end to go into the lake of fire. 


The just and unjust UNSAVED DEAD who do rise when Christ returns have THE LORDS DAY, the 1000 years, to get their names into the book of life THROUGH THEIR WORKS or failing that go into the lake of fire for the eternal punishment the 2nd death.  Like the dew that disappears over the meadow when the sun rises and is no more or like the smoke goes up and finally disappears, so do they

The 'condemned' will not rising until the END OF THE LORDS DAY, and they go into the Lake of Fire.  



 

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

their WORKS.  If it were the 'never die' or the 'living' they would be judged by their FAITH.  

So, the dead were those who were 'ruled over' aka 'the nations'

by the army that returned with Christ

and the alive and remaining that were changed and joined them





AND ONCE THOSE DEAD that rose when Christ returned were judged....THEN

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

how does this come into play?

Matt 5

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[Neighbor]

On 7/10/2023 at 1:59 PM, other one said:

Since I discovered my Church of Christ people were telling me things either against scripture or leaving some scripture out at the age of 17, I tend not to get too excited about what other people say about most subjects.

Ah  The Church  of Christ and it's devoted members.  Fascinating Christians! It took me almost two years to learn how messed up some of their conclusions  might be. BUT  I absolutely cherish my nearly two years with them as they do love God and love one another so.

[DeighAnn]

21 hours ago, NConly said:

how does this come into play?

Matt 5

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I don't understand your question. 

[DeighAnn]

23 hours ago, angels4u said:

Yes,don't you think?

I believe it is at Christs return. 

By the time of the GWTJ, at the end of the Lords Day...
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

At that point, death is defeated as far as 'deception' is concerned.  Now is judgement come, all things have been put down.  Now comes the judgment of the 'dead' that rose at the beginning of the Lords Day, PRAYERFULLY their WORKS would have gotten their names into the book of life and they receive their 'immortal' status aka go on to eternal life, if not, the payment of the eternal penalty the 2nd death in the lake of fire...

 

11And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

(we have to keep in mind that the LIVING are judged according to their FAITH though their REWARDS come from WORK.  The dead are REWARDED with Salvation...they are of 'the 2nd resurrection' not having ever died and gone to heaven or endured to the end and been changed, never having gone to the Judgment seat of Christ, never having sat and ruled with Christ for the Lords Day.  

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Already DEFEATED just being judged.  

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

a Second witness in the words of God
24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." Revelation 5:13 KJV

I think when the kingdom of Heaven is  on the earth, that ALL of us will be in the same 'realm'

"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;" Philippians 2:10 KJV

"And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon." Revelation 5:3 KJV


HOW does the Lord ACTUALLY return????
 

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

2nd witness
8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Those are the scriptures on which I base my belief at the moment.

If you have some to share that show it will be at the end rather than the beginning, I would like to read them.  Thank you