Eternal Salvation – From the Perspective of Life

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

The problem with thinking one can loose their salvation is that you can never get all the verses to line up with that thought.  There are way too many verses that state that the life we receive is eternal (e.g., "I give them eternal life and no one can pluck them out of My hand")

Now, granted, passages can be cited (which you and others have done) where it appears that a believer can put their own salvation in jeopardy. But a closer look at those passages usually reveals that the Holy Spirit is warning us or talking about discipline for the children of God - not loss of eternal salvation.

For instance - see my response to you on another thread about the warning in Hebrews 6 . . .

I UNDERSTAND eternal salvation.  I UNDERSTAND that for those who follow and obey because THEY have been made a NEW creature, born of the SPIRIT  who follow the commands as Christians, will never perish.  They won't go to HELL at the first death, and they won't go into the lake of fire the 2nd death.  

I got the eternal salvation.  You got eternal salvation, FOR THOSE WHO DO IT RIGHT.

but those who 'turn away' 'DON'T receive the love of the truth', turn to the ways of the world, may  END UP WITH eternal salvation

but NOT till they do it by WORKS cause they BLEW IT as to doing it through faith.  

A

I understand at the death of the natural body those who have NOT TURNED BACK are fit for the kingdom of God and they are assured of salvation and will receive their immortality when they rise in glory and power to the judgment seat of Christ and that they will be RETURNING with Him when He returns with a rod of iron to rule the world.  

On that, WE AGREE

 

Now MOVING ON TO THE GIFT OF SALVATION, aka the NEW COVENANT brought forth so that those who 'have sin' not repented of FALL UNDER GODS GRACE, and DON'T HAVE TO GO TO HELL.  



BUT for those who have tasted and left, how far they have gone, I HAVE NO IDEA but God does, and Jesus is quite clear

there is no more sacrifice for sin.  WHAT does that mean?  If one doesn't have the blood of Christ, then one doesn't have the gift of salvation.  EVEN IF they are ETERNALLY SAVED, 

they are still GOING TO HELL TO PAY THE PENALTY OF DEATH.  


as there is no going to heaven WITH SIN.  You have to GO THROUGH CHRIST to rise up at the first death.  If you don't rise up BECAUSE you don't know the way the life the resurrection, you CAN'T FOLLOW HIM.

Those are just the hard core facts of the LAWS OF GOD.  


You like the grammar right?  GO and check it out yourself  it is he that HAS AND THAT IS A PRESENT TENSE HAS

NOT A PAST TENSE HAD

that HAS eternal life.  If I am incorrect please come and show me because I would have had to be looking at the wrong lines on those verse and would like to know if that is true.  If so and it actually says HAD or says at one time HAD rather than has
I will be the first to apologize.  BUT

If it is a PRESENT TENSE hath then I can not give to anyone what is not given to me to give, 

NO MATTER WHAT MY PRESENT BELIEFS MAY BE.  

I hope I have showed you that I UNDERSTAND THE POINTS you are trying to make, and YOU HAVE MADE, and why I disagree with them. 

 

Thank you


Why the CHURCH thinks they are  'different'  I don't know
 

9And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

10And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for my people that have sought me.

11But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.

12Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

We got a NEW COVENANT so those who are TRYING don't have to go to hell.  

Jesus DIDN'T get crucified so people could just DO AS THEY PLEASE.  IF you REFUSE TO ANSWER WHEN HE CALLS, OR HEAR WHEN HE SPEAKS

you are going to hell to pay a penalty.  If all you were ever taught is OSAS then you can't hear when He calls so you can't answer, so you will do evil and you will choose to do the things HE doesn't delight in and you are going to hell because you are going to hear I NEVER KNEW YOU because the CHURCH keeps putting forth OSAS is a truth LIKE THEY DON'T KNOW THERE ARE FALSE TEACHERS JUST LOOKING FOR ANY WAY TO STEAL SOULS AND THIS DOCTRINE JUST MAKES THEM LOOK LEGIT.  

How MUCH WORSE it will be for those under GRACE...who have received THE HOLY SPIRIT and STILL WON'T stay the course....


So, make your claims in the reply post but I feel we have completely covered our points of views and let it go from there.  

Thank you for your time.  
 

[FreeGrace]

19 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I UNDERSTAND eternal salvation.  I UNDERSTAND that for those who follow and obey because THEY have been made a NEW creature, born of the SPIRIT  who follow the commands as Christians, will never perish. 

Except for one detail:  there are NO verses that say any of this.  The only verse that is even close to this is John 10:28, which DOES says "shall never perish".

However, there are huge differences between the statement above and was "IS WRITTEN" in the Bible.  

The statement above includes "follow and obey" who "will never perish", yet Jesus NEVER EVER said such a thing.

In fact, Jesus was very clear and unambiguous.  The people who "shall never perish" are those who have been given eternal life.  "I give them eternal life and they shall never perish".  

And Jesus previously made unambiguously clear WHEN a person is given eternal life, in John 5:24.  He said "whoever believes has (POSSESSES) eternal life.

So, it is very clear;  from the MOMENT one believes in Christ for salvation, that person "shall never perish" because Jesus gave him/her eternal life.

So, eternal security is from the MOMENT a person becomes a Christian.  

That is what "IS WRITTEN" in Scripture.

[farouk]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Except for one detail:  there are NO verses that say any of this.  The only verse that is even close to this is John 10:28, which DOES says "shall never perish".

However, there are huge differences between the statement above and was "IS WRITTEN" in the Bible.  

The statement above includes "follow and obey" who "will never perish", yet Jesus NEVER EVER said such a thing.

In fact, Jesus was very clear and unambiguous.  The people who "shall never perish" are those who have been given eternal life.  "I give them eternal life and they shall never perish".  

And Jesus previously made unambiguously clear WHEN a person is given eternal life, in John 5:24.  He said "whoever believes has (POSSESSES) eternal life.

So, it is very clear;  from the MOMENT one believes in Christ for salvation, that person "shall never perish" because Jesus gave him/her eternal life.

So, eternal security is from the MOMENT a person becomes a Christian.  

That is what "IS WRITTEN" in Scripture.

@FreeGrace

Paul also says:

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

³⁹ Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8.38-39)

[farouk]

20 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Thanks. So are you in Christ and is He in you? And if so, was it something you did or did someone else put you there? 

If someone continues in sin and is lost, he or she was never a true believer in the first place (otherwise it makes nonsense of the work of the Cross in one's life).

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

3 hours ago, farouk said:

If someone continues in sin and is lost, he or she was never a true believer in the first place (otherwise it makes nonsense of the work of the Cross in one's life).

That's not true!

Numerous passages in the New Testament speaks of people falling away from the faith... one cannot fall away from something they were never in to begin with.

Also read Mark 4:13-20 and notice that all the people with bad ground did receive the word with gladness.  Jesus does not say they never received the Word and believded

Notice Jesus give 5 things the devil uses to choke the Word out of one's life causing it to be unfruitful - persecution, afflictions, cares of this world, lusts of other things, and deceitfulness of riches.

And notice Jesus said these things ENTERING IN is what cause the Word to be choked so it did not bare fruit.

We are the ones who are supposed to keep God's Word and not allow these tings to enter in an choke the Word.

This is why Jesus said if you love me keep my Word (John 14:23) as in don't let the devil come in and choke the Word out of you.

This is what it means to lay hold on eternal life

1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

 

 

[farouk]

35 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

That's not true!

Numerous passages in the New Testament speaks of people falling away from the faith... one cannot fall away from something they were never in to begin with.

Also read Mark 4:13-20 and notice that all the people with bad ground did receive the word with gladness.  Jesus does not say they never received the Word and believded

Notice Jesus give 5 things the devil uses to choke the Word out of one's life causing it to be unfruitful - persecution, afflictions, cares of this world, lusts of other things, and deceitfulness of riches.

And notice Jesus said these things ENTERING IN is what cause the Word to be choked so it did not bare fruit.

We are the ones who are supposed to keep God's Word and not allow these tings to enter in an choke the Word.

This is why Jesus said if you love me keep my Word (John 14:23) as in don't let the devil come in and choke the Word out of you.

This is what it means to lay hold on eternal life

1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

 

 

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

³⁹ Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8.38-39)

Paul also says in Philippians 1.6: "He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".

[FreeGrace]

9 hours ago, farouk said:

@FreeGrace

Paul also says:

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

³⁹ Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8.38-39)

Absolutely!  I'd like to point out to all our Arminian friends/posters who believe that salvation can be lost what Rom 8:38 above says at the end:

"nor things present, nor things to come".  Hmm.  What possibly could 'things to come' be referring to?

Well, ANYTHING at all.  Paul gave no exceptions to what might occur in the future.

Yet, Arminians seem to have whole long lists of things that will forfeit salvation, all being things that they say will result in loss of salvation.

But Paul debunked that notion.

[FreeGrace]

9 hours ago, farouk said:

If someone continues in sin and is lost, he or she was never a true believer in the first place (otherwise it makes nonsense of the work of the Cross in one's life).

If someone is "lost", then they never believed.  But the Bible warns believers to NOT continue in sin, so that shows that believers are able to but commanded not to.

Sin has no effect on the cross.  Jesus died for all sin.  So whether a believer lives in sin or not, changes nothing, since Christ already died for all sin.

What it does do, is show the stupidity of the believer who thinks (falsely) that they can get away with whatever they choose to do.  God's discipline is said to be painful in Heb 12:11.  

Any volunteers to see if that verse is really true?

Paul turned the incestuous man over to Satan for "the destruction of the flesh" (physical death).  Doesn't sound like a picnic to me.  Or just a mere hand slap.  

And Paul gave a general progression of God's discipline to the carnal congregation in Corinth in 1 Cor 11:30 - "weakness, sickness and death".  

[FreeGrace]

6 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

Also read Mark 4:13-20 and notice that all the people with bad ground did receive the word with gladness.  Jesus does not say they never received the Word and believded

The parallel passage on the parable of the soils DOES say the second soil believed!!

Luke 8:13 - Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

The term "fall away" doesn't refer to salvation, but leaving the faith.  There are no verses that say that one can "leave salvation".  And that would be impossible, given all that comes with salvation:  The indwelling Holy Spirit, the new born again nature, being a new creature, being justified.  

6 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

Notice Jesus give 5 things the devil uses to choke the Word out of one's life causing it to be unfruitful - persecution, afflictions, cares of this world, lusts of other things, and deceitfulness of riches.

And notice Jesus said these things ENTERING IN is what cause the Word to be choked so it did not bare fruit.

We are the ones who are supposed to keep God's Word and not allow these tings to enter in an choke the Word.

This is why Jesus said if you love me keep my Word (John 14:23) as in don't let the devil come in and choke the Word out of you.

This is what it means to lay hold on eternal life

1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

To "lay hold of eternal life" means to live according to the principles of what God's children are commanded to do.  

[Mike Mclees]

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I UNDERSTAND eternal salvation.  I UNDERSTAND that for those who follow and obey because THEY have been made a NEW creature, born of the SPIRIT  who follow the commands as Christians, will never perish.  They won't go to HELL at the first death, and they won't go into the lake of fire the 2nd death.  

I got the eternal salvation.  You got eternal salvation, FOR THOSE WHO DO IT RIGHT.

but those who 'turn away' 'DON'T receive the love of the truth', turn to the ways of the world, may  END UP WITH eternal salvation

but NOT till they do it by WORKS cause they BLEW IT as to doing it through faith.  

A

I understand at the death of the natural body those who have NOT TURNED BACK are fit for the kingdom of God and they are assured of salvation and will receive their immortality when they rise in glory and power to the judgment seat of Christ and that they will be RETURNING with Him when He returns with a rod of iron to rule the world.  

On that, WE AGREE

 

Now MOVING ON TO THE GIFT OF SALVATION, aka the NEW COVENANT brought forth so that those who 'have sin' not repented of FALL UNDER GODS GRACE, and DON'T HAVE TO GO TO HELL.  



BUT for those who have tasted and left, how far they have gone, I HAVE NO IDEA but God does, and Jesus is quite clear

there is no more sacrifice for sin.  WHAT does that mean?  If one doesn't have the blood of Christ, then one doesn't have the gift of salvation.  EVEN IF they are ETERNALLY SAVED, 

they are still GOING TO HELL TO PAY THE PENALTY OF DEATH.  


as there is no going to heaven WITH SIN.  You have to GO THROUGH CHRIST to rise up at the first death.  If you don't rise up BECAUSE you don't know the way the life the resurrection, you CAN'T FOLLOW HIM.

Those are just the hard core facts of the LAWS OF GOD.  


You like the grammar right?  GO and check it out yourself  it is he that HAS AND THAT IS A PRESENT TENSE HAS

NOT A PAST TENSE HAD

that HAS eternal life.  If I am incorrect please come and show me because I would have had to be looking at the wrong lines on those verse and would like to know if that is true.  If so and it actually says HAD or says at one time HAD rather than has
I will be the first to apologize.  BUT

If it is a PRESENT TENSE hath then I can not give to anyone what is not given to me to give, 

NO MATTER WHAT MY PRESENT BELIEFS MAY BE.  

I hope I have showed you that I UNDERSTAND THE POINTS you are trying to make, and YOU HAVE MADE, and why I disagree with them. 

 

Thank you


Why the CHURCH thinks they are  'different'  I don't know
 

9And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

10And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for my people that have sought me.

11But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.

12Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

We got a NEW COVENANT so those who are TRYING don't have to go to hell.  

Jesus DIDN'T get crucified so people could just DO AS THEY PLEASE.  IF you REFUSE TO ANSWER WHEN HE CALLS, OR HEAR WHEN HE SPEAKS

you are going to hell to pay a penalty.  If all you were ever taught is OSAS then you can't hear when He calls so you can't answer, so you will do evil and you will choose to do the things HE doesn't delight in and you are going to hell because you are going to hear I NEVER KNEW YOU because the CHURCH keeps putting forth OSAS is a truth LIKE THEY DON'T KNOW THERE ARE FALSE TEACHERS JUST LOOKING FOR ANY WAY TO STEAL SOULS AND THIS DOCTRINE JUST MAKES THEM LOOK LEGIT.  

How MUCH WORSE it will be for those under GRACE...who have received THE HOLY SPIRIT and STILL WON'T stay the course....


So, make your claims in the reply post but I feel we have completely covered our points of views and let it go from there.  

Thank you for your time.  
 

Well spoken Deighann