Partial Rapture Theory

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The Bible doesn't support a partial rapture.

How do you interpret Matthew 27: 52-53 and elsewhere?

[missmuffet]

3 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

How do you interpret Matthew 27: 52-53 and elsewhere?

Matthew 27:52-53 is regarding the event where the tombs were opened, and many of the bodies of the Saints were raised. They then entered the Holy City. This event happened as a testimony to the immortal power of Jesus Christ. The resurrection is a cornerstone for Christianity. This event was for God's glory.

It has nothing to do with a partial rapture.

[seeking the lost]

5 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The Bible doesn't support a partial rapture. God doesn't pour out His wrath on Christians.

Romans 8:1

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who^[a] do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

1 Thessalonians 5:9

 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

 

Wrath will come on the disobedient.  Those who call themselves Christian but walk in disobedience will experience the wrath of God.

Edited October 7, 2024 by seeking the lost
I need to add scripture

[missmuffet]

6 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

Wrath will come on the disobedient.  Those who call themselves Christian but walk in disobedience will experience the wrath of God.

Yes, lukewarm Christians or counterfeit Christians will go through the 7 year tribulation. God said it was good to be either cold or hot.

Revelation 3:14-21

¹⁴ “And to the ^[a]angel of the church ^[b]of the Laodiceans write,

‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: ¹⁵ “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. ¹⁶ So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither ^[c]cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. ¹⁷ Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— ¹⁸ I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. ¹⁹ As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten.^[d] Therefore be ^[e]zealous and repent. ²⁰ Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. ²¹ To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

God knows everyone's heart.

[farouk]

15 hours ago, NConly said:

John 5:

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

@NConly Great verse there.

I just don't get the partial rapture theory. The idea that God effects an uncertain salvation but only those who are "good enough" will actually be taken to be with the Lord, make absolutely no sense in the light of plenty of Scriptures, imho.

[Neighbor]

11 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Wrath will come on the disobedient.  Those who call themselves Christian but walk in disobedience will experience the wrath of God.

Those that are saints OT or NT , not only those that consider themselves Christian, will experience, do experience, and always have experienced God's wrath. 

In part consider: ... you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten?  But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.  Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?  For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness.  Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it."....

[Neighbor]

Personally I am not dogmatic about any of the rapture theories nor if a rapture is a separate event from the "second coming" of Jesus.

What is found within each ( theory ) is the same  hope certain that is the absolute reliance on the faith of Jesus. His sacrifice being  fully sufficient to bring salvation to all those given him by his Father,  of whom He loses not a one; as is made known to those that the Holy  Spirit calls specifically to their repentance of sin against God and to the awareness of Jesus as Lord, God, and personal savior.

[DavidReese]

On 4/26/2024 at 1:30 PM, Vine Abider said:

On another thread, a few people seemed interested in talking again about the Partial Rapture Theory.  (I say again, because we did a thread on this about 1.5 years ago that got to over 90 pages before George closed it!)

Here's a few of the comments I thought to bring over from that other (current) thread:

Below posted by me (as a response to @AnOrangeCat on that other current thread: 

We had quite the thread going on this over a year ago (actually  may have been a couple threads) - I can see if I find them if you'd like. But the basics are this: many argue incessantly for either pre or post trib rapture, and some also for mid trib.  I subscribe to the notion that there are some merits for all these in scripture, therefore multiple, partial raptures.  There have been God's people who have been caught away at various points, so I don't understand why Christians insist on dogmatically staking claim to just one rapture at the end.

To me, we are all saved equally, and He puts His Spirit of life into us to make us children.  Therefore we are all on equal footing in that regards - saved by grace period.  But then there is the matter of how we grow and what we do with this grace and life we've been given.  The Bema Seat judgement will address this and differentiate between God's children.  So why should the rapture idea be any different, that is, ones taken up according to how well they have allowed the seed of life in them to grow?

Much more could be said, but after some digging I found this thread I started in December 2022.  (FYI - there were over 90 pages to this thread and it was closed by George, but if you read a few of the beginning pages I think you'll get the idea.)

 

Below posted by me responding to @Dennis1209 on that other current thread:

I don't know much about what the anti-Nicene church fathers held regarding the rapture(s) . . . and I would defer to @AdHoc regarding any teachings from back then about multiple/partial reapings.   And even if no church father source for the idea comes from that period, I would maintain that this, in and of itself, certainly does not negate the idea.

I do agree that much of the partial rapture teaching did get promulgated by 19th century authors.  Here's something from Wikipedia in an article on "Rapture" subsection "Partial pre-tribulation premillennialism":  As stated by Ira David (a proponent of this view): “The saints will be raptured  in groups during the tribulation as they are prepared to go.”[98] Some notable proponents of this theory are G. H. Lang, Robert Chapman, G. H. Pember, Robert Govett, D. M. Panton, Watchman Nee, Ira E. David, J. A. Seiss, Hudson Taylor, Anthony Norris Groves, John Wilkinson, G. Campbell Morgan, Otto Stockmayer and Rev. J. W. (Chip) White Jr.  Found here  - an interesting read on the whole matter of the rapture:                                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture 

I am familiar with a number of these authors and many were in the 19th century.

If anyone is interested, here is a website I found today that promotes Partial Rapture Theory (PRT): https://www.bible-prophecy.co/partial-rapture-theory/  I have just started to look through it, so I can't vouch for its veracity.  UPDATE:  Just realized this website is by an author whose book I have on my shelf:  "The Partial Rapture and the Left Behind Church" by Paul Shoenbarger

Below posted by @Dennis1209 as a response to me (on that other, current thread):

To coin an old secular adage, “The closer to the bone, the sweeter the meat.” The closer we get to the source material and references, the more detail and accuracy.

My point is:

1 Thes. 4: ¹⁵For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. ¹⁶ For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: ¹⁷ Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. ¹⁸ Wherefore ^lcomfort one another with these words. [emphasis mine]

On scripture: I am not dogmatic, but I see nowhere in scripture that teaches a partial rapture. How could we comfort one another knowing some of our beloved brethren and loved ones missed the church age (age of Grace) Rapture and Resurrection? It seems the pronoun WE is all-encompassing and all-inclusive.

I mentioned the early so-called church fathers. Polycarp was a personal friend and disciple of John the Revelator, studying under John, not to mention Irenaeus under Polycarp and all the other so-called Ante-Nicene fathers. None of them knew what is spouted today as partial raptures.

Short of reverifying, I do not recall any Reformation leaders of the sixteenth century mentioning partial raptures. This doctrinal introduction is a product of the 19^th century, which is very late in Biblical terms.

It is not to say there will only be one rapture and one glorification. I believe those Tribulation martyrs (and ourselves) will return with Christ at His 2^nd coming, then having their glorified bodies.

And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. (Revelation 6:11)

The final resurrection is the Great White Throne judgment, where those not written in the Lamb’s Book of Life are bodily resurrected, condemned, and join the Antichrist and False Prophet in the Lake of Fire.

I also would like @AdHoc to chime in. I consistently learn from you both, getting alternate views and thoughts.

In all my study's around Christian sites, the best I found was someone that says that in Babylon there will be them that are alive go to heaven, then Babylon will  be destroyed. When Babylon is destroyed the dead in Christ rise and go to heaven from both places. Then after the dead rise a short time after them alive will go to heaven. Not sure if the dead rise first in Babylon just assume. Babylon destruction in one day. As in Revelation our destruction is not in one day.

Two raptures and one dead in Christ rise.

[TheBlade]

"Yes, lukewarm Christians or counterfeit Christians will go through the 7 year tribulation. God said it was good to be either cold or hot."

"Wrath will come on the disobedient.  Those who call themselves Christian but walk in disobedience will experience the wrath of God."

 Its written for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness. 

Ask Him pray seek for me it took 15years but I asked show me people through your eyes. Short is I saw people not Christians nor sinners just people and He was crying so hard because not one knew how much He loved them. In that moment which has only happened once in my life part of me wanted to slam on the breaks (was in a car) and run to each on hold them tell them how loved they are. I have never had that kind of love but what was so odd was there was this other part of me that didn't want to.. it was so hard.. a real fight.. anyway. 

So lukewarm.. its not written will go through the great tribulation. Not written they are lost nor He did spit them out. Its not written when they or anyone that after they read this repented as He told them to and got right with God. 

Its not written His wrath "will" come on those that call themselves Christian but walk in disobedience will experience the wrath of God. Verse 6 because of these things .. what things? I like how the AMP says it "So put to death and deprive of power the evil longings of your earthly body [with its sensual, self-centered instincts] immorality, impurity, sinful passion, evil desire, and greed, which is [a kind of] idolatry [because it replaces your devotion to God].

Eph 2 talks about this also. Not sure why but this verse which I can't remember the last time I thought of it heard it "My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires"

See Col/Eph/Rev just taking one verse out what did it produce? So your sitting there with who knows what.. what verse did He bring to mind to tell them? Wrath to come? No.. sitting there "Behold I stand at the door and knock". Wow I wondered where is that written "Rev 3:20". I had never read Rev or Jude or Peter so forth so on at that time. He loves them He wanted them to know He loves them and He is knocking on their heart. 

 

[angels4u]

1 hour ago, TheBlade said:

"Yes, lukewarm Christians or counterfeit Christians will go through the 7 year tribulation. God said it was good to be either cold or hot."

"Wrath will come on the disobedient.  Those who call themselves Christian but walk in disobedience will experience the wrath of God."

 Its written for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness. 

Ask Him pray seek for me it took 15years but I asked show me people through your eyes. Short is I saw people not Christians nor sinners just people and He was crying so hard because not one knew how much He loved them. In that moment which has only happened once in my life part of me wanted to slam on the breaks (was in a car) and run to each on hold them tell them how loved they are. I have never had that kind of love but what was so odd was there was this other part of me that didn't want to.. it was so hard.. a real fight.. anyway. 

So lukewarm.. its not written will go through the great tribulation. Not written they are lost nor He did spit them out. Its not written when they or anyone that after they read this repented as He told them to and got right with God. 

Its not written His wrath "will" come on those that call themselves Christian but walk in disobedience will experience the wrath of God. Verse 6 because of these things .. what things? I like how the AMP says it "So put to death and deprive of power the evil longings of your earthly body [with its sensual, self-centered instincts] immorality, impurity, sinful passion, evil desire, and greed, which is [a kind of] idolatry [because it replaces your devotion to God].

Eph 2 talks about this also. Not sure why but this verse which I can't remember the last time I thought of it heard it "My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires"

See Col/Eph/Rev just taking one verse out what did it produce? So your sitting there with who knows what.. what verse did He bring to mind to tell them? Wrath to come? No.. sitting there "Behold I stand at the door and knock". Wow I wondered where is that written "Rev 3:20". I had never read Rev or Jude or Peter so forth so on at that time. He loves them He wanted them to know He loves them and He is knocking on their heart. 

 

Will lukewarm born again Christians going trough the Tribulation ?

Will Jesus have to die for them again? They will lose reward but not their Salvation as Jesus died ones for our sins,we can't crucify Him again?