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I find the whole thread a little strange to tell you the truth. "I like Gays", should actually, if we are to follow the teaching of Jesus, (the Word of God), read "I Love Gays". Or am I wrong?

I'm not offended at all, so no apology necessary. But......you are wrong. Hehe Spock running out the back door

If you believe that being gay is a sin and there for you should not have a boss that is gay. Then what about all the other things that are sinful? Should you quit your job if you find out your boss is cheating on his/her spouse? What if they drink to much on the weekends? What if they tell dirty jokes? What if they cheat on their taxes? What if they simply are not a Christian? Why does the sin of being gay get such attention over any other sin? For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (Romans 3:23)

Job 3 16 Or why was I not hidden away in the ground like a stillborn child, like an infant who never saw the light of day? 17 There the wicked cease from turmoil, and there the weary are at rest.

•And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:2-3) •Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, "Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." (Matthew 19:13-14)

Lol poor spider...

A pound? That's bait!

I am not a evolutionist, but evolution does not say man descended from monkeys, rather a common ancestor with the chimps. Which explains a lot about my family!

When will this debate come to an end, @dsiciplehelovestoo,you has been strongly following this topic, likewise i myself and others, all you want to hear or to see, is a passage in the bible that says, smoking tobaco is a sin, and you has been busy qouting bible, but you fail to understand that, the word of God is like two edge sword, you just quoted Deuteronomy 14:26" Does it meaning that since the bible said we should use the money and buy and eat and do what ever our heart lusted after, so if your heart lusted after a harlot who stays in a hotel, does that mean that you are free to go and sleep with her, since the bible says what soever your heart lusted after, Dose that mean you are permited to go and drink and become drunk, this question is very simple, Is smoking tobaco a sin? since we are serving the God of the bible, and the entire christian race is center on the word of God, the bible said we should not add or minus, No passage in the bible that says smoking is a sin, to answer this question base on bible, we will never come to one agreement, the bible did not talk about smoking directly, if to get the answer from the bible, both the people that says is a sin and not a sin are wrong, no passage in the bibl that directly says that smoking is not a sin, neither is there any passage that says smoking is a sin, brother dsiciplehelovestoo, shall we encourage every believer to smoke?

Might want to check the spirit you're listening to, because the Scriptures point directly to Satan himself as the coming Antichrist. And by that I mean Satan here on earth in person, and not by some demon possession idea. In Rev.12:7 forward our Lord Jesus showed us about Satan being cast out of Heaven down to the this earth in the last days, with his angels. The abode of hell, haides, or whatever one wants to call it, is in the Heavenly. When the war in Heaven between Michael and his angels vs. Satan and his angels occurs, the devil's place in the Heavenly will be no more. That leaves only one other place he can go to, i.e., this earthly dimension we live in. The many antichrists that are here on earth which work for Lucifer are continually trying to hide this specific matter, and want us to instead think the Antichrist is about some flesh man being possessed in order to fulfill the role of the coming Antichrist/false messiah. They don't want you to think it could be the Devil himself. Yet the Devil is who the Scriptures are directly pointing to. It's simply a matter of whether people are going to believe the Scriptures as they are actually written or not, or instead heed pop tradition.

by George Whitten, Editor of Worthy Devotions Jonah 1:14, 16 Therefore they cried out to the Lord and said, "We pray, O Lord, please do not let us perish for this man's life, and do not charge us with innocent blood; for You, O Lord, have done as it pleased You." Then the men feared the Lord exceedingly, and offered a sacrifice to the Lord and took vows. While most read the story of Jonah focusing on Jonah's journey, I want to pause and examine the lives of the pagan sailors. What a journey they were on! We see the hand of God touching them providentially through Jonah's disobedience. Talk about God bringing good from evil. Here He draws them into a desperate sea voyage and almost incidentally reveals to them the impotence of their gods, who have no power whatsoever to stop the deadly storm. In their total helplessness the God of Heaven then introduces Himself through his runaway prophet. And suddenly, the sailors are crying out to YHVH. They are not crying out to their gods any longer – but now are crying to the true God of Israel. And God performs a miracle for them, when Jonah is tossed into the sea, the storm suddenly calmed… and the amazing miracle evokes what sounds like prophesying, as they offer sacrifices and vows in worship to YHVH. "For You, O Lord, have done as you pleased!" The whole crew is converted. So, while Jonah is fish food – there's a revival happening on board. And now these wonder struck sailors have quite a fish story to tell in all their subsequent travels concerning the wayward prophet who disappeared beneath the waves as his God stilled the perfect storm. And the Lord has a boat full of newborn missionaries heading to Tarshish… Our God desires all people throughout the world to hear His message. His providence is such that anywhere His servants find themselves becomes a place and a moment of opportunity for Him. The apostle Paul writes to Timothy "Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; [2 Timothy 4:2] Even Jonah's gross disobedience didn't stop the Lord from using him as a testimony. We need to be aware of who we are and what we carry for Yeshua (Jesus). His love and faithfulness to us is such that even our discipline can become a vehicle for expressing His love to the world. View the full article Note: While this is 'locked' for comments, commments can be made on the article page by clicking the full article link.

If all your saying is true, then why did God say the following, and notice it's a statue that is forever. Notice what is said about holiness. Leviticus 10:8-10 And the Lord spake unto Aaron, saying, Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean.

God gave us the affinity we have towards babies (especially your own). Very emotional subject. Ephesians 1:11 (NIV) 11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, If the baby would have believed, had they reached the age and time they otherwise would have believed, God knows this already and the baby would be saved. If the baby would not have believed no matter how long they lived... God knows this too and the death of the unbelieving baby is the same as that of the unbelieving adult. Man must not allow our affinities cloud what the Bible says.

I agree with Butero. 1 Cor 7:14 says that if the husband or the wife is a believer, their spouses are sanctified by the the believer; "otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy." To me that means that until children choose to not believe, they are dedicated to the Lord. We have dedication ceremonies for babies modeled after Hannah's dedication of Samuel to the Lord. But in fact the parents are dedicating themselves to raise the baby according the the scriptures and teach them about salvation through Christ. Parents who do not teach their children to fear and love God are not guarenteed any hope that I know of. It is so sad. But God can intervene as we pray for children, and I know of a lot of praying grandmas who have seen the salvation of their grandkids, even those raised in horrible homes. Our pastor is one of them. I have a friend who was raised in a horribly abusive home as well. A neighbor prayed for the 4 wild kids and every one of them has been saved.

No not a sin But the real question is perhaps is it beneficial, will it improve or deepen my relationship with the Lord ? this is the question I keep asking myself as a Christian. Blessings Andy

There are two types of homosexual men: Those that would prefer that they weren't gay but just get on with it anyway. They carry out their homosexual practises, satisfy their lusts and look for love in the same way that many people do. They have fallen for the lie that they born that way and do not realise that knowing Jesus could transform them. You can talk to, associate with, and befriend these people. Maybe one day they will find Jesus and find salvation. Those that are proud to be homosexual. They are blinded by their own vanity. They throw their homosexuality in your face, believe that they are privileged, believe they are special, and do not want to change. They love to indulge in their own perversions. They play the victim, they use their sexuality to their advantage and work their way up the career ladder on the strength of positive discrimination (affirmative action) laws. They do not want God in their lives because they want to make up their own rules and live by their own moral code.

Smoking is a fleshly act, a lust of the flesh. 1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. Smoking is a holiness issue, period. I do not agree with the belief that we can't say anything is wrong. I do understand though, that only the Holy Spirit can convince, and it's not my job to convince anyone of anything. I personally find it greatly disturbing that some may find nothing wrong with following fleshly lusts of drinking and smoking while your suppose to be serving God. Where is the Holy fear of God????? Where is the Holiness?????

My boss is also gay. She beleves she is born that way. I don't want to change jobs right now, cause jobs so hard to find.

we have the best enemies money can buy...

I have had many friends in the past who are gay. just because its a sin, doesnt mean we should shun or hate them.

The sun is a star...you can't have night and day or life for that matter without the sun. If you argue otherwise, you shun science and rest your entire argument on faith and the supernatural. Which is ok, jiust have the intellectual honesty to admit it.

doesn't matter if it was with a microscope. It has been observed, so your point is meaningless. Evidence isn't proof. That the universe is allegedly expanding isn't proof that the universe began a singularity. Did you really say that Evidence is not proof? So if you have evidence that I stole money from a bank (me waving to the security camera on my way in and out) then I cannot be tried and put away for stealing the money right? Because even though you have evidence whether it be the money or footage it isn't proof . . . Yes, evidence isn't proof. Proof requires a different standard. Proof is undeniable. I can prove that the sun exists. I can prove water extinguishes fire. Evidence supports a claim, but it doesn't necessarily prove a claim because the evidence one possesses may not contain all of the facts on a given issue. Evidence supports a claim, but doesn't always tell the whole story. Evidence allows you to make the case that your claim has value, is rational and has a good chance of being true. But there may be evidence (facts) that might work against your claim, as well. It may be that your claim is based on insufficient evidence and in the face of new evidence your claim may need to modified or discarded altogether. It is also important to understand that in a court of law, the standard of "proof" isn't the same as is required in a laboratory. In court, it is "proof beyond a reasonable doubt." In court something is "proven" when the preponderance of evidence points in either direction of the guilt or innocence of the defendant. Science works from a far more stringent standard of "proof" that may or may not be attainable. Regardless of whatever rambling you keep doing, the facts of the matter are these. The universe is expanding. The universe, like everything else, is ruled by our laws of physics. it is not ruled by laws of physics which are non-existent, or those of some omni-verse we're yet to ever see, nor of universe X whose laws of physics are not so much laws as instructions. Our universe complies with our laws of physics, or rather, our laws of physics comply with our universe. Physical fun-fact number 1: The universe is expanding. This tells us that over time, it expanded, and so at one point, it was unexpanded. Physical fun fact number 2: Time requires motion, space, and stuff. If the universe was hot, dense and motionless, just potential energy, waiting to be released, time itself would not be existent, thus the idea of 'before the universe' is contradictory. Before 'time' is a better analogy. We know that time had a beginning, but evidence suggests the 'stuff' of the universe, in a state without time, had no beginning. That's just logic. A timeless entity cannot 'begin' or 'end', but time can become out of that beginningless, perpetual 'stuff'. Physical fun fact number 3: Every kind of 'stuff', matter or otherwise, has a gravitational negative energy, able to be counteracted by an opposing positive potential energy. The total energy in the universe is a mathematical zero. (The equilibrium zero, not the 'nothingness' zero) Physical fun fact number 4: Because of this zero-energy existence, our universe has never not-existed. Time, on the other hand, did have a beginning. If you imply God was the driving force behind the expansion of dense matters, thus beginning 'time', then there need be no contradiction between big-bang and bible. Though, 7 'yom' is more likely 7 eons than 7 days.

Now concerning smoking,the bible did not directly say christian should not smoke,neither did the bible encourage a christian to smoke, Dearly beloved,i beseech you as a stranger and pilgrims,abstain from fleshly lusts,which war against the soul. 1 peter 2:11" I QUOTES words spoken directly to me from God,concerning smoking and receiving healing, before i stoped smoking, God spoke very clear to me 24 years ago,when i needed a healing, God asked me....how can i heal one part of you, when you are damanging another? i know exactly what He meanlt, He meanlt,how can He heal one part of me,when iam damanging another with smoking, God is saying that smoking is such irresponsible care to the body that He gave us, i believe that this is a direct revelation from God and fact that He does not want His people to smoke, and possible smoking hinders us from receiving God's total healings.

I needs to put this in better words. People seems to think because your a christian, you hate gay people. There is also alot that think because your a christian, that your not supposed to hang out or be near sinners. I think were all sinners. Jesus sat with sinners and loved them. I don't want anyone to think because I'm a christian that I hate sinners or anyone.

Jerry - you are misquoting me - i never said that smoking is not a sin, nor did i say it is a sin - i said that Romans 14:21-23 applies - that there is no clear cut answer to this question from scripture. others offered scripture to support the belief that smoking is a sin, and i looked at those scriptures in context and believe the context proves that they don't mean what tradition says they do about physical things defiling the temple of the Holy Spirit which is the body. please be more careful; if you think i said something, then copy it out of my post(s) and quote it to me, don't assume you know what i mean - you can't see my heart nor read my mind. you have made a number of assumptions and accusations in this post - but where is the scripture??? not a verse taken out of context, but clear scripture taken in context that deals with this subject? those who say that smoking is clearly a sin are focused on actions, not heart intent. God is focused on heart intent, because as the heart changes the actions change automatically. to say that smoking is a sin is to actually strengthen it, because you are laying down a law, and sin revives when the law comes. i'm sorry you don't see this. God bless you my brother in Christ @dsiciplehelovestoo, I believe we are here to learn and to help our christian life, the bible said we should not lean on our own understanding, By the reason of the comment you made above, iam not misquoting you, I have been following your replies on this topic, mind you,we are debating,only on one question, whether smoking tobaco is a sin, I myself, i have never come accros any passage in the bible that says smoking tobaco is a sin, when i was trying to disagree with you, on your opinion concerning this topic, It all started when you quoted a passage in the bible, that says, what enter into a man body through the mouth,can never defile him, so what are you insinuating by quoting that passage? we have three believe on this topic, some believe that smoking is not a sin, some believe that smoking is a sin, some believe that smoking is not a sin,But it is unwise to smoke, where do you belong? from my cultural point of view, and how i was brought up as a christian, I use to believe that it is a taboo and a sin before God and man for a believer to smoke, that was what warranted me to say boldly in my above replies, that a genuine born again can never smoke, but many people over here disagree with me, May the good God i serve bless Shiloh, His believe is very clear, you said, neither said smoking is a sin or not, but all your replies indicated on one believe, mostly you has been disagreeing with us, I mean i and Shiloh, no doubt you are good in quoting scripture, all the scriptures you have been quoting here,is center on one believe, to me i strongly believe that anything that is distructive to the body, Is a sin, I will like to know your opinion on this very topic, Do you believe that smoking is a sin? Do you believe that smoking is not a sin? Do you believe that smoking is not a sin,But unwise to smoke? we are debating on one topic with three believe. like i always says, iam here to learn and to help my christian life, Always open to correction.

I was actually reading something this week about misused Bible passages and this passage came up... As the character Inigo Montoya made famous in Princess Bride... "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." What do you think brother? God bless, GE Interesting read. Very possible that is the proper application of the verse. However my point in my post remains unchanged. It is following the flesh/carnal nature to smoke. Smoking is a holiness issue. We are to be set apart. Not sitting with our friends drinking and smoking. If it's ok to smoke at all at any time, then go light up in a church service. If it's not sinful, why not allow people to smoke in church?

Just curious, do you think the verse that says "avoid all appearance of evil would apply to this"? I mean sin is the transgression of the word. Jesus is the word made flesh, and I can NOT see Jesus Christ ever smoking. So who are we to do it? Something is either Holy or it's not. There is no middle, contrary to popular opinion. Smoking is a sign or symptom of following and pleasing the fleshly/carnal nature, and not following the spirit. How can being led by, and/or following the flesh not be sin? We are the called out ones. We are to be in the world but not of the world. That's scripture. We are to be different than the world, not sitting beside them smoking it up. IMHO this whole debate comes down to a bigger debate/problem in the church, and that is holiness. I don't know if people forgot, don't know or what the problem is. But there is a big problem in the church as a whole, when it comes to holiness when we see nothing wrong with sitting down and smoking it up, divorce for any and every reason, and a host of other things. To finish my little rant here I will quote an old Carmen song, "we need a little bit more conviction"!!!! God bless you Firestormx Joseph

@disciplehelovestoo, you have a very strong believe that, smoking is not a sin, even to the extend in saying that the person that asked the question is wrong, if it happen that the question goes like this, does it make sense for a believer to smoke? Does bible support smoking? can Holy Spirit ask a believer to smoke? can Holy Spirit ask a believer to stop smoking? generally we know that tobaco is dangerous to our health, why then supporting what is not good for our health, if any believer that newly gave his life to christ, and he is struggling to quit smoking, just because it is not generally supported,for a believer to smoke, and the Holy Spirit directed him on this site, and he look into this thread and the replies, he will simple believe that, it is wise to smoke, the last thing i will do is to encourage a believer to smoke, God forbid, i will only encourage a believer to quit, with God all things are possible, anything that has a begining will surely have an end. it is just a matter of time and prayers, whether smoking is a sin or not, whether it is right or wrong for a believer to smoke, but all of us know that it is very bad to our health. even the person that asked the question know that, know where in the bible that says, smoking tobaco is a sin, that was why he ask the question, the bible said that anybody that knows what is good and refuse to do it,the bible said it is a sin to that person.

I don't see the Big Bang as opposed to the Bible. Just as long as we cut it short of life forming by random molecules. The incredible complexity of atoms, neutrons, protons, etc, plus the even more complex way chemicals work in our cells, tells me this was all created by a God who's intelligence dwarf ours as much as we dwarf an ant. But why can't the BB be the way God created the universe. I think it can. And I don't see that as a problem. I often think Genesis picks up where God started to cool down the mass we call Earth, and carries on from there. And since the Bible says with God a day can be as 1000 years (or maybe even 1 million) the 7 days of Genesis can be any amount of time. If we have evidence that the BB isn't true, which is quite possible, then what theory is replacing it?

Very well said Wolf.

Of course this mostly refers to a "building",I still thought you mind find it interesting Another point of interest may be in the 2nd article.....quoted above

Heath and the body as a temple is one thing, but being a slave to anything goes beyond heath. So with that said, smoking can be a sin if its a habit, but if its not a habit then its not. It's an individual by individual assessment. Any habit which is out of ones control is a sin.

Nobody is worthy to stand before God and declare him or herself Immaculate, The bible is like two edge sword,the knowledge of the word of God will empower or enable a true child of God, To know and to depart from evil, every genuine born again must be conversant with the word of God, The entire christian race is center on the word of God, We all know what is right and what is wrong, Rebuke them that sin before all,so that others also may fear, 1 Timothy 5:20" How do you rebuke someone that is doing what is not right before God and man, telling the person that what he or she is doing,is bad and he is sinning against God, does that mean you are judging the person?

not quite; be led by God and not by your own understanding; He may lead you to inform, but never to condemn, and always with the goal to bring the other person to focus on His grace, not their poor performance Thanks for the clarification. I agree with you there is a big difference between quoting the word of God on something being a sin and condemning someone for a sin.

you are taking it personally,i never mean to offend anybody,i believe we are here to learn and to help our christian life,Apostle Paul was born out of due time,but he labour more than the rest Apostles,just food for a thought. from my own understanding,the way of christianity over here, is 100% difference from the way we pratice it in my country,in my country there is a difference between born again and a christian,i never mean to offend your ways of christianity,i have never been to USA before,so i did not know that you guys encourage a believer to smoke,i was only talking from my experience in my country,please you guys should not be offend,iam here to learn,in other to help my christian life and my walking relationship with God, Travelling is a part of experience,now i know better. there is only one God, and only "one" way of Christianity. (that "way" being to learn to model our behaviour after Jesus, loving God first and others next.) i'm not offended for myself, jerry. i am rock solid in my assurance of eternal life. what i'm trying to do is exactly what you said: "i believe we are hear to learn and help our christian life". i have no reason to doubt that you are a christian, born again and looking forward to eternity with Jesus Christ. but your error is in thinking that only those who are instantly made perfect are "truly" born again. we are all a work in progress, jerry. God's not finished with any of us yet. and i can promise you this... if you have accepted Christ as your savior and strive to live your life for Him, then the blood of His sacrifice covers all the multitude of sins you commit in your life. as a child of God, you must develop that same understanding towards others... that His sacrifice covers the sins in their lives too. this doesn't mean that we all have a license to do whatever we want. far from it! but God deals with each of us, perfecting us as He would lumps of clay. as we grow and mature in our relationship with Christ, we shed more and more of our old lives. but we will never reach that perfect sinless state on this side of heaven. and to look at another person's sin and say they are not truly born again is absolutely a sin. unlike smoking, it is something that God repeatedly and specifically tells us we are not to do. my concern is that when condemning another person as unsaved by the grace of God, a newer believer may take your cue and apply it to their lives and begin questioning their own salvation. these people often become like the seed that falls on rocky ground, never taking solid root, and their faith withers away.... because someone told them they weren't good enough to really be saved. because they believed the lie of satan that says 'because you keep stumbling and tripping over (insert sin here) you are too filthy to be cleansed by the blood, and you're never going to make it to heaven". and many people who become convinced of that lie will give up trying. you speak of the apostle paul. i'd like to encourage you to study the book of romans again. at least chapter 7. paul acknowledges that as humans, our spirit and our flesh are always at odds, and that the desire to be transformed by God and our human, sinful nature will be in a state of continuous struggle while we are alive. paul states unequivocally that in his heart and mind, he is a slave to God's law, but that in his flesh, he is still a slave to the law of sin. we should always encourage people to turn away from sin... to give up smoking, excessive drinking, drugs, sexual impurity, lying, stealing, gambling, or whatever sin that person struggles with. but we, and by that i mean both you and i and everyone else here, must be careful to do it in a way that actually ENcourages them rather than DIScouraging them. God by His great mercy brought me to this site,God doesn't make a mistake,just two months and 2days, that the grace of God that bringeth salvation appeared to me. my best companion,in the person of the Holy Spirit,directed me to this site,on 29th" of july 2013" God has bless me in many ways,through you guys on this site,infact this site is a special gift and a blessing from God to us,every good and perfect gift comes from above. I know that my statement was too bad to your liking. I never mean to offend or to judge anybody,you guys are a blessing to me,i think i was a little bit too hash, By saying that a genuine born again can never smoke, Iam a good listener,always eager to learn,to the glory of God, for many years i was a christian without Christ,but on 27th" of may 2013" A Divine being enter into me and change me.

I have a quick question if you don't mind. After reading your post it seems to me that you are saying that we are not allowed to say something is a sin, otherwise we are judging. Is the correct understanding of your post?

I think anything bad for your health is a sin.

Amen~! But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death. Proverbs 8:36

Yep wrong choice of words from me, but I agree if we are not in the spotlight we are comfortable discussing a subject, once we start talking stuff that affects us directly, we often get indignant... For instance, talk to me about a short temper at times.... It's a problem I am working on. I dealt with my smoking addiction two years ago, my painkiller addiction as well (both overnight through answered prayer), but when I was addicted I could justify stuff a whole lot easier than I can now. It is one reason why I will never judge a smoker or someone addicted to over the counter medication, I know what it's like to quit. My decision was not to look at sin, but to look at what in my life did not glorify God, or shine as a light on the hill, and eradicate them through the power He invested in me by His Word. One. By. One.

Nobody is judging any one, the bible make us to understand that judgement will start from the house of God,i just believe that because of church doctrine and tradition of man,many of us will go to hell fire,Jesus said on that very day many of us will call Him Lord Lord, He will tell us to depath from me,for i know you not,may that not be our portion,in Jesus name,the bible said any one that wanted to correct or rebuke,should do it openly,so that others may learn,beating around the bush will not help us,James 4:17 says"anydody that know what is good and refuse to do it,the bible said it is a sin, Does smoking tobaco good? I have said before that i will never comment on this topic again,because of what my bible tells me in Roman 14:1-23" everything you are doing,without faith is a sin,God is watching I rest my case,

Ok jerry, lets list them. What else can a "genuine born again" never do? I'll start.. 1 Gossip 2 Lose their temper 3 Lie (even slightly) 4 Break the speed limit 5 Come to work late 6 Eat the wrong diet and too much and put on weight 7 Not pay all the taxes they are due to pay 8 Take office supplies like paper or staples, or a blank Cd home 9 Spend time on Worthy while at work 10 Read gossip magazines... Over to you..... (Worthy has lots of space so don't concern yourself, the list will be very long please i beg you guys in the name of God,i was only talking base on how i was brought up as a christian in my country,difference culture and difference way of life,iam not judging anybody,I just believe that tobaco is not made for a genuine born again,but now i can see that my believe is totally disagree by 90% over here,majority carry the vote,as some believers are free to drink,likewise, some believers are free to smoke,after all no were in the bible,that says drinking and smoking is a sin,I rest my case.

you are taking it personally,i never mean to offend anybody,i believe we are here to learn and to help our christian life,Apostle Paul was born out of due time,but he labour more than the rest Apostles,just food for a thought. from my own understanding,the way of christianity over here, is 100% difference from the way we pratice it in my country,in my country there is a difference between born again and a christian,i never mean to offend your ways of christianity,i have never been to USA before,so i did not know that you guys encourage a believer to smoke,i was only talking from my experience in my country,please you guys should not be offend,iam here to learn,in other to help my christian life and my walking relationship with God, Travelling is a part of experience,now i know better.

There is no way the issue of a bad start will show it ugly face in the house of God,i never mean to offend you,we are here to learn to the glory of God,to help our christian life and our walking relationship with God,all iam trying to point out is that it is not right to encourage a fellow believer to smoke.

from my own understanding,you absolutely misunderstood the passage you quoted from the bible,what you are insinuating is not what the bible mean,I believe the bible said a drunkard will not enter into heaven,were does alcohol enter, is not through the mouth,can the Holy Spirit ask someone to start smoking,but the Holy Spirit can ask somebody to stop smoking,the bible said by their fruit we shall know them,a genuine born again can never smoke,

Blessings fire-heart God Bless you,great to see you................... In any version I have always found this verse to be very powerful.......& also Proverbs 16:25 Anyone can "say" they are a Christian,they know ABOUT Jesus but do not KNOW Him at all................can we really know them?WE are told that we will know them by their fruits but only God can really know a man's heart(we can know them if we walk in spirit & in truth,therefore we have the Heart & Mind of Christ)........Sad to say,I think it is true and that is why it is so important we reason & learn together,encourage one another,look out for one another,support one another,pray & praise together......being established in our Faith that it is ever increasing,pray without ceasing ,seeking God with all our hearts. We are to go out into the world & spread the Gospel to everyone but without being indwelled with the Holy Spirit ourselves we are of little or no effect,Jesus is truly the Way,the Truth & the Life..............Our relationship with the Lord is vital as is the Body of Christ ,we should always be striving towards perfection & regard our Precious gift of Gods Grace as the Treasure that it is With love-in Christ.Kwik I put in my little 2 cents but my answer to your question is "yes",I do believe that is true