GoldenEagle Posted August 13, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 13, 2013 I was speaking to my brother about this subject last night and he was making similar comments. Between the 2 of you it helped me see what your saying. Also, since 2 people, who don't know each other have effectively said the same thing to me in the span of 12 hours, maybe God is trying to teach me something. May he open my heart and understand that I may see the truth of Christ, In Jesus name. Amen brother! May God open all our hearts to understanding the truth of God found only in Christ. I think this is worth bringing into this discussion... III. Suggestions on how to give more horizontal grace? A. Refocus on things that encourage peace. B. Remember that sabotaging saints hurts God’s work. C. Refuse to play God in anyone’s life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micheal Westin Posted August 14, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 616 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 96 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/07/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) Why is there no unity in the body of Christ? There are disputes on every single point of doctrine there is. Very few agree on a lot of things. Even fewer agree on most things. I've never come across 2 believers that agreed on everything. The bible states in the book of Acts that the Apostles were of 1 accord. The first believers were in unity. With each other and Christ. Why aren't we? People often say it's ok, because we are never going to agree on everything. But, the bible says Christ is not divided. Where is the unity? Is it we understand the scripture differently? Well, if we are all being led to the truth by the same Holy Spirit, then shouldn't it be the same truth we arrive at? Is it because we are at different places in our walk with Christ? But even then, the same core truth should be there, should be the same. Just built upon. Line upon line. An unfolding living revelation coming from the living Word. How can every believer be hearing and being led by the same Holy Spirit and all of us come to different answers to the exact same questions? Why is it seen as such a bad thing to say " I don't know " or " I was wrong ". If Christ is love, then shouldn't unity start there to? Isn't forgiveness apart of love? Where is the Unity? May the living Lord Jesus Bless you all Firestormx Joseph I'm not sure what bible you have been reading but mine shows multiple instances of disunity among even the apostles, Paul verses Peter in the case of circumcision, Paul verses Barnabus in the case of Mark, even while Jesus was still with the twelve they were fighting on who would sit at His right and left hand, not to mention Jesus Himself saying His gospel would split families, Fathers against sons Mothers against daughters.......and then there is the end time prophesies that prophesy that believers would hate one another and there love would wax cold not exactly sure where you read Christianity was a unifying faith, It can be for small groups as the church was intended to be, not huge monolithic buildings dressed like prostitutes that take huge amounts of money just to keep them working the streets like any prostitute would Edited August 14, 2013 by GoldenEagle <<< replaced word in bold. >>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted August 14, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2013 I was speaking to my brother about this subject last night and he was making similar comments. Between the 2 of you it helped me see what your saying. Also, since 2 people, who don't know each other have effectively said the same thing to me in the span of 12 hours, maybe God is trying to teach me something. May he open my heart and understand that I may see the truth of Christ, In Jesus name. I think Nebula had a good perspective on this... Kind of like zits... I. Two Strong Tendencies that Nullify Grace Along this train of thought - There was a song that came out back in the 70's: "And they'll know we are Christians by our love." I've often marveled, though, at how this principle never seemed to manifest itself in the Body of Christ. Rather, it has seemed: "And they'll know we are Christians by our obsession with sin." It's like a problem I have. For some reason, I got into the habit of pinching the zits on my face. It turned into an addiction where I feel better from squeezing oil out of my face. So I look for zits and blackheads and any potential pocket of oil to squeeze out. So what that it damages my face, I'm getting the nasty oil out! This seems to be what we are like as the body of Christ. We don't see the beauty of the face, we see the nasty zits and we look close up for the nasty oil because it feels so good to eliminate it. And then we believe that eliminating the oil is love, even though it leaves behind wounds and swollen tissue, rather than believing love is covering over the zit or treat it in a way that brings healing in its own time and way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coheir Posted August 15, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,458 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 729 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1950 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Why is there no unity in the body of Christ? There are disputes on every single point of doctrine there is. Very few agree on a lot of things. Even fewer agree on most things. I've never come across 2 believers that agreed on everything. The bible states in the book of Acts that the Apostles were of 1 accord. The first believers were in unity. With each other and Christ. Why aren't we? People often say it's ok, because we are never going to agree on everything. But, the bible says Christ is not divided. Where is the unity? Is it we understand the scripture differently? Well, if we are all being led to the truth by the same Holy Spirit, then shouldn't it be the same truth we arrive at? Is it because we are at different places in our walk with Christ? But even then, the same core truth should be there, should be the same. Just built upon. Line upon line. An unfolding living revelation coming from the living Word. How can every believer be hearing and being led by the same Holy Spirit and all of us come to different answers to the exact same questions? Why is it seen as such a bad thing to say " I don't know " or " I was wrong ". If Christ is love, then shouldn't unity start there to? Isn't forgiveness apart of love? Where is the Unity? May the living Lord Jesus Bless you all Firestormx Joseph most likely it is caused by the highly educated people that come up with things like legalism and telescoping among other subjects and bring it into the church; whether or not it was intentional it creates the division. just a guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 15, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,132 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,859 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 15, 2013 human nature. what in this world has mankind ever been in unity on anything for any length of time. Add to that different languages don't always convey full meanings when we write to and read so there are small differences in how we precieve things. we have different Bible translations that don't fully agree and then there are people who want power. Add to that a very capable enemy who does everything he can to cause confusion and chaos. so it's really no wonder we can't agree. and it really started at the very beginning. 1 Cor 1:11-12 12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ." NASB then you have some of the Jews wanting the gentiles to basically become Jewish before they could be part of the church...... to me it's a wonder how Christianity even managed to stay in existence.... much less in unity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Why is there no unity in the body of Christ? There are disputes on every single point of doctrine there is. Very few agree on a lot of things. Even fewer agree on most things. I've never come across 2 believers that agreed on everything. The bible states in the book of Acts that the Apostles were of 1 accord. The first believers were in unity. With each other and Christ. Why aren't we? People often say it's ok, because we are never going to agree on everything. But, the bible says Christ is not divided. Where is the unity? Is it we understand the scripture differently? Well, if we are all being led to the truth by the same Holy Spirit, then shouldn't it be the same truth we arrive at? Is it because we are at different places in our walk with Christ? But even then, the same core truth should be there, should be the same. Just built upon. Line upon line. An unfolding living revelation coming from the living Word. How can every believer be hearing and being led by the same Holy Spirit and all of us come to different answers to the exact same questions? Why is it seen as such a bad thing to say " I don't know " or " I was wrong ". If Christ is love, then shouldn't unity start there to? Isn't forgiveness apart of love? Where is the Unity? May the living Lord Jesus Bless you all Firestormx Joseph I want to address something you asked in the last paragraph. "Why is it seen as a bad thing to say "I don't know" or "I was wrong?" I think some people don't say they don't know on something because they want to be seen as an expert, and when you admit you don't know the answer to something, it causes people to look at you as not being all that smart, especially if it is something that was obvious to others? Another reason why people don't say they don't know is because they genuinely believe they do know. I think the reason people are reluctant to say they were wrong is partially for the same reason. If they are wrong in one area, people will think they may be wrong in others? In another debate, they may even be reminded they said they were wrong about something. Nobody wants to deal with that. Sometimes people won't admit to being wrong because it means they have to change something in their lives, and so long as they keep disagreeing, the matter remains in dispute, so they feel ok staying the way they are. Then there are those who genuinely are convinced they are right, and even if others don't agree with them, and think them off the wall, they are still convinced they are the ones in the truth. Look at these words of Jesus: Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division. For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. This can certainly apply to division because some accept the gospel and others reject it, but it also can simply mean that people won't be in unity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted August 16, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted August 16, 2013 Why is there no unity in the body of Christ? There are disputes on every single point of doctrine there is. Very few agree on a lot of things. Even fewer agree on most things. I've never come across 2 believers that agreed on everything. The bible states in the book of Acts that the Apostles were of 1 accord. The first believers were in unity. With each other and Christ. Why aren't we? People often say it's ok, because we are never going to agree on everything. But, the bible says Christ is not divided. Where is the unity? Is it we understand the scripture differently? Well, if we are all being led to the truth by the same Holy Spirit, then shouldn't it be the same truth we arrive at? Is it because we are at different places in our walk with Christ? But even then, the same core truth should be there, should be the same. Just built upon. Line upon line. An unfolding living revelation coming from the living Word. How can every believer be hearing and being led by the same Holy Spirit and all of us come to different answers to the exact same questions? Why is it seen as such a bad thing to say " I don't know " or " I was wrong ". If Christ is love, then shouldn't unity start there to? Isn't forgiveness apart of love? Where is the Unity? May the living Lord Jesus Bless you all Firestormx Joseph I want to address something you asked in the last paragraph. "Why is it seen as a bad thing to say "I don't know" or "I was wrong?" I think some people don't say they don't know on something because they want to be seen as an expert, and when you admit you don't know the answer to something, it causes people to look at you as not being all that smart, especially if it is something that was obvious to others? Another reason why people don't say they don't know is because they genuinely believe they do know. I think the reason people are reluctant to say they were wrong is partially for the same reason. If they are wrong in one area, people will think they may be wrong in others? In another debate, they may even be reminded they said they were wrong about something. Nobody wants to deal with that. Sometimes people won't admit to being wrong because it means they have to change something in their lives, and so long as they keep disagreeing, the matter remains in dispute, so they feel ok staying the way they are. Then there are those who genuinely are convinced they are right, and even if others don't agree with them, and think them off the wall, they are still convinced they are the ones in the truth. Look at these words of Jesus: Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division. For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. This can certainly apply to division because some accept the gospel and others reject it, but it also can simply mean that people won't be in unity. Enjoyed reading your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddaeus Posted August 18, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 375 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2013 Why is there no unity in the body of Christ? If there is no unity, can it really be called the body of Christ? Of all the posts to this point, this is a very discerning statement. I don't often speak about personal issues, however this is probably a good exception. Sixteen years ago I had the very same observations. The framework was a little different but the core disillusionment existed. I thought that if scripture was correct, I believed it was, Christ made some astounding statements regarding His Church. The Unity would be the same as He is with the Father. In other words the unity in Christ could not possibly be divided or at a discord. Christ also stated that He would never leave His Church. He would guide the Church into all Truth and preserve both until the end of time. What I observed around me and in the denominations I had beem a member but also the discord between thousands of other denominations could not be the Body of Christ. I decided that I would begin a search for Christ's Church, the one He founded at Pentacost and would begin in the beginning. To make the next four years shorter, because it took me four years of dedicated research, I eventually found the Church that Christ founded at Pentacost. It does still exist in this world, it still teaches, believes and practices the same faith as the Apostles did in ;the beginning. In that search I also found that what I had believed, what my parents had believed, in fact for 7 generations had believed, coming right out of the reformation had no relationship with scripture in how it was believed in the beginning. It was based on a lot of man made theories, notions, doctrinal developments that were far different than the Original Gospel was believed and practiced and still is today. For the most part, protestants due to history, circumstances of time and place are misguided into believing much of what they do. Luther was only trying to reform an Organizational Church that historically had been separated from the Body of Christ for 500 years already. Once He was excommunicated his faith was adrift. He did what any man would do, he created his own faith based on his best understanding of scripture and as long as it did not resemble the RCC. The consequence over the past 500 years is individual men deciding for themselves what scripture would mean, if they disagreed with a group, just start a new group. There are some who have stated in this thread that most protestants believe in the essentials, and only argue the minors. That is one of the most deceiving platitudes in existance. Most denominations were founded on the differences of the essentials. The problem is that the essentials are so different from the original that it seems to be minors that are being debated. In essence most are debating different Christs, All protestants are debating a far different definition of Church, or the Body of Christ than the Original Church. That change in definition is a change in the meaning of who is Christ. There are a wide range of differences regarding rhe Incarnation of Christ and any difference other than established by four Ecumenical Councils based on the teachings of the early Church makes Christ a different Christ than scripture describes. There are many more such huge differences but the fact is the Church, the Body of Christ is unified. The Gospel is still the same Gospel given to the Apostles, is practiced and believed as they did in the beginning. It is man that is not unified, it is man who has elevated himself as the authority over scripture consequently creating many different faiths, many different churches (Bodies of Christ) to fit each faith One should not be shocked at this occurance, since scripture foretells of this disunity in the last days. What I suggest to any who is disillusioned by the sectarian landscape of the proliferating denominations being created daily, it seems, is to do your own due diligence, be a true Berean, and follow that early Church in time and space. You will be amazed as I was and still am after 16 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted August 18, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2013 Thanks. But I honestly believe we should be united. Christ is 1. Not many. So we should be 1 in him. I just feel so lost over this right now. Tired of all the bickering and fighting over every single thing. I just don't know, I just don't know. You should not be so discouraged. Reread how the apostles did disagreed about the gentiles, where to go and what to do. They were not always in one accord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Why is there no unity in the body of Christ? If there is no unity, can it really be called the body of Christ? To make the next four years shorter, because it took me four years of dedicated research, I eventually found the Church that Christ founded at Pentacost. It does still exist in this world, it still teaches, believes and practices the same faith as the Apostles did in ;the beginning. You said a lot of things I agree with, and have observed myself, but this is what I want to focus on. You claim that you found a church that operates the same as the church did at Pentecost. Why leave us in suspense? What church is this, and are they all over the country? I have been looking for a church like that for over 30 years and haven't come across it. I have found some that weren't as far off as others, but none that are like they were when the church was founded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts