The Structure of Revelation 6-19

[Last Daze]

I think it would be beneficial, from a summary standpoint, to discuss the structure of Revelation 6-19 as it relates to chronology.  As I see it, the first seal in chapter 6 through the seventh trumpet in chapter 11 form a framework that is expounded upon in chapters 12 through 19.  Chapter order does not necessarily mean chronological order.  Sometimes a chronological view is given, and then additional details after that, as in the creation account.

The reason I see a break after chapter 11 when the seventh angel sounds the seventh trumpet is because of:

but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.  Revelation 10:7
Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”  Revelation 11:15

This indicates that at the seventh (last) trumpet Christ's kingdom on earth begins as stated in Daniel 2.

In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.  Daniel 2:44

This is how I see chapters 12 through 19 giving additional information about chapters 6 through 11:

• Chapter 12 - Shows Satan and his angels cast down to earth, persecuting Israel, then her offspring.  The persecution is likely brought on by the abomination of desolation which I see as set up at the end of the fourth seal where the false prophet performs great signs and demands worship.
• Chapter 13 - Gives detail about the beast and the false prophet's persecution of believers through the image of the beast and the mark.  This correlates to the fifth seal.
• Chapter 14 - Shows the 144,000 mentioned in chapter 7 now with the Lamb on Mount Zion.  This must be at the seventh bowl or later.  Next there is an angel that warns of God's coming judgment.  I see this as just prior to the second seal.  A second angel announces the destruction of Babylon the city by the ten horns.  This is when peace is taken from the earth at the second seal.  Wars and rumors of war ensue.  A third angel follows and warns about the image and the mark.  This is at the end of the fourth seal.  Then, the reapers corresponding to the seventh trumpet and bowl.
• Chapter 15 - This is where the seven angels with the seven plagues are given the seven bowls.  These are to bring about the fullness of the plagues that start when the trumpets sound.
• Chapter 16 - The effects of the bowls when they are poured out.
• Chapter 17 - A description of Babylon, the beast and the ten horns.  It shows that God's judgment of Babylon the city is carried out by the beast and the ten horns.  This is likely the second seal when peace is removed from the earth.
• Chapter 18 - The description of the destruction of Babylon, both the city at the second seal, and later on, the ungodly during the day of the Lord.
• Chapter 19 - Events that take place on the day of the Lord which begins with the seventh trumpet and ends with the seventh bowl.  There is rejoicing over Babylon's destruction, the marriage of the Lamb, and the slaughter of Armageddon.

Chapters 6 through 11 are chronological and describe the events of the seven seals and seven angels ending with the day of the Lord.  Chapters 12 through 19 are clearly a break from the chronological order which is observable even at a cursory glance with events like:

• the Lamb on Mount Zion in chapter 14
• the reaping of the earth in chapter 14
• the martyrdom of the 5th seal in chapter 6 and the "worship or die ultimatum" in chapter 13
• the destruction of Babylon the city by the ten leaders in chapters 17 & 18

The challenge is to identify where in the chronological framework of the seven seals and seven plague angels that the events of chapters 12-19 align.  This is what makes the most sense to me at this point in time. 

[other one]

hummmm,   pondering.....

 

 

 

 

note: that's a compliment....  I rarely ponder this subject....

[Watching for Jesus]

Hi Last Daze,

 

I believe that Chapter 7 of Revelation is slightly out of chronilogical order.  I believe Chapter 8 and verses 1-6 occurs just prior to the events of Chapter 7.  I will explain.

 

 

After the 6th seal is opened (shown in Chapter 6), the 7th seal will be opened and the seven angels will be given the 7 trumpets.

 

 

Revelation 8:1.  And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

 2.  And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

 

 

Another angel with a golden censer performs his ritual.

 

 

3.  And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

 4.  And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

 5.  And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

 6.  And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

 

 

This ritual matches the priestly duties for the Day of Atonement shown in Leviticus, Chapter 16 and verses 12-17.  The angel with the censer is a very important key as to the timing of the events of the 7 angels.  I hope to explain that to you later.

 

 

The remainder of Chapter 8 shows the first four of the seven angels, who go down to the earth to fulfill the first four trumpets.  The first four trumpets will affect the earth, the sea and the trees.

 

 

 

Revelation 8:7.  The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

 8.  And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

 9.  And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

 10.  And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

 11.  And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

 12.  And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

 13.  And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

 

 

Now, go to Chapter 7 and you will see that four angels have come down to the earth to hurt the earth, the sea and the trees.

 

 

 

 1.  And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

 2.  And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

 3.  Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

 

 

 

I believe the four angels shown in Chapter 7 are the first four of the 7 angels that have been given the 7 trumpets.  Chapter 7 is slightly out of chronilogical order.

 

 

Jeff

[OneLight]

I disagree, our new friend.  I believe how John wrote is how it will happen.  There is no reason to believe that God has to use the same angels over and over again to fulfill anything.  Personally, I believe people "over-think" Revelation, trying to make it fit this way or that.  I believe it is wise to allow the Holy Spirit teach us His word in His time and when we try to use our own understanding, we come up with many errors. 

[Watching for Jesus]

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Edited July 28, 2016 by Watching for Jesus

[Willa]

Jeff, this is somewhat the way our pastor teaches the Revelation as well. I think that we occasionally have a glimpse of what is going on in heaven while other things are happening on earth. We are told that this book is the revelation of Jesus Christ. While it prepares us for things that must take place, it is given to reveal our Savior, the Lamb that was slain, in all His glory and power.

I see that the wars of the great trib are separated from the bowls of the wrath of God poured out on unbelievers in the 6th seal and the trumpets of Rev. 8., the bowls of 16. I also see that some of the plagues echoed the plagues visited upon Egypt, and that the song of Moses was sang. But beyond that it is still pretty confusing. So I am interested in your insights.

[Watching for Jesus]

-

Edited July 28, 2016 by Watching for Jesus

[Last Daze]

Hi Last Daze,

 

I believe that Chapter 7 of Revelation is slightly out of chronilogical order.  I believe Chapter 8 and verses 1-6 occurs just prior to the events of Chapter 7.  I will explain.

 

 

After the 6th seal is opened (shown in Chapter 6), the 7th seal will be opened and the seven angels will be given the 7 trumpets.

 

 

Revelation 8:1.  And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

 2.  And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

 

 

Another angel with a golden censer performs his ritual.

 

 

3.  And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

 4.  And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

 5.  And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

 6.  And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

 

 

This ritual matches the priestly duties for the Day of Atonement shown in Leviticus, Chapter 16 and verses 12-17.  The angel with the censer is a very important key as to the timing of the events of the 7 angels.  I hope to explain that to you later.

 

 

The remainder of Chapter 8 shows the first four of the seven angels, who go down to the earth to fulfill the first four trumpets.  The first four trumpets will affect the earth, the sea and the trees.

 

 

 

Revelation 8:7.  The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

 8.  And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

 9.  And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

 10.  And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

 11.  And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

 12.  And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

 13.  And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

 

 

Now, go to Chapter 7 and you will see that four angels have come down to the earth to hurt the earth, the sea and the trees.

 

 

 

 1.  And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

 2.  And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

 3.  Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

 

 

 

I believe the four angels shown in Chapter 7 are the first four of the 7 angels that have been given the 7 trumpets.  Chapter 7 is slightly out of chronilogical order.

 

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff,

 

Thanks for your reply.  I think I see what you're getting at.  Some things to consider:

• The only tie-in that I see between the four angels of Rev 7 and the first four trumpet angels of Rev 8 is what they affect, as you pointed out.  However, the fourth trumpet does not harm the earth, or sea, or trees.  It affects the sun, moon, and stars.
• I can't find where the first four angels go down to the earth as you've stated.  All that's stated is that they sound their trumpets.  I agree with Willa that in Revelation we see things going on in heaven which affect things on earth.  In the case of the plagues, I see the two witnesses as being the "Moses and Aaron" of sorts, announcing the plagues of the seven angels.

Because of that, I don't really see a strong link between the four angels of Rev 7 and the first four trumpet angels of Rev 8.

 

As I see the seals, the sixth one ends the great tribulation (unencumbered global persecution of the saints) and the seventh seal begins God's wrath.  The mention of the sealing of the 144,000 prior to the wrath, and the showing of the martyrs that just came out of the great tribulation just after it ends makes sense between those two seals.

 

For clarification, when I use the term "great tribulation" it's a reference to the period of time just after the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15,21) until the sixth seal is opened (compare with Matthew 24:29).  It is a time of global persecution and martyrdom, a war against the saints led by the false prophet.  The false prophet wages war against the saints for 42 months (Daniel 7:25) however not all 42 months are "great" tribulation.  The days of "great tribulation" are cut short (Matthew 24:22); not the 42 months, but the intensity which makes it "great".  It is cut short by the disruption of the sixth seal and the wrath that ensues.  The false prophet will still be waging war against the saints but at a greatly reduced level of intensity since he is having to deal with effects of the plagues of the seven angels on his kingdom. 

[WilliamL]

... As I see the seals, the sixth one ends the great tribulation (unencumbered global persecution of the saints) and the seventh seal begins God's wrath.  The mention of the sealing of the 144,000 prior to the wrath, and the showing of the martyrs that just came out of the great tribulation just after it ends makes sense between those two seals.

Technically, “the great day of his wrath came-and-continues” (aorist indicative verb) right after the 6^th Seal is opened, but you're correct that the wrath is withheld until the 144,000 are sealed, and the ones “come out of the GT.”

Those latter ones are not the martyrs of the 5^th Seal, however, but are the raptured elect. The martyrs are “given white robes,” because of their righteous act of accepting martyrdom for Christ: “for fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.” Rev. 19:8. In contrast, those who are raptured must “wash their [own] robes and make them white,” indicating active repentance on their part. This cleansing was symbolized by the purification underwent by Esther and the other virgins, before they were allowed into the Presence of the King.

For clarification, when I use the term "great tribulation," it's a reference to the period of time just after the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15,21) until the sixth seal is opened (compare with Matthew 24:29). It is a time of global persecution and martyrdom, ...

Fully agree with you up to this point.

…a war against the saints led by the false prophet. The false prophet wages war against the saints for 42 months (Daniel 7:25) however not all 42 months are "great" tribulation. The days of "great tribulation" are cut short (Matthew 24:22); not the 42 months, but the intensity which makes it "great". It is cut short by the disruption of the sixth seal and the wrath that ensues. The false prophet will still be waging war against the saints but at a greatly reduced level of intensity since he is having to deal with effects of the plagues of the seven angels on his kingdom.

Disagree in part. The King-angel of the Abyss – “the Beast that ascends out of the Abyss,” 11:7, 17:8, is not released until the 5^th Trumpet. The False Prophet only arises after the Beast does, 13:11-12. Therefore, the GT is not caused by either of them. The Beast will arise after the chaos of the GT has destroyed world order, and he will establish a New World Order – for the price of total obedience.

 

The main person that brings on the GT is the Son of Perdition, “whom the Lord will consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and destroy with the brightness of his parousia/Presence.” 2 Thes. 2:8 The Lord comes after the 6^th Seal is opened – Matt. 24:30-31 = Rev. 6:16-17 – to rapture his elect out of the GT, as Rev. 7:9-14 reveals. This is when “every eye shall see” his Presence manifested. Only then will the Lord begin to manifest his wrath.

 

Dan. 11:40-45's king of the north, who “shall plant the tabernacles of his pavilion...at the glorious holy mountain,” but who shall then “come to his end,” is the Son of Perdition committing the Abomination of Desolation on the Temple Mount. This “king” creates a world crisis, Dan. 11:44, which brings to pass “a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time.” 12:1 This is clearly the Great Tribulation:

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matt. 24:21

 

“At that time Michael shall stand up.” Dan. 12:1 This is when the war in heaven against Satan and his angels, spearheaded by Michael, takes place. Rev. 12:7

 

To sum it all up in a nutshell: the Judgment of God is carried out in four sequential stages, over four levels of authority:

1. Neshamah/Breath: The judgment of the heavenly elohim, including Satan and his angels. Rev.12:7f., Ps. 82, Is. 24:21, etc.

2. Ruach/Spirit: The tribulation/trial/purification of the Church, a spiritual body. Accomplished during the 7 Seals.

3. Nephesh/Soul: The “time of Jacob's trouble.” Jer. 30:7, Dan. 7, etc., being the 1260 days/42/months/3½ times of Revelation and Daniel. Accomplished during the 7 Trumpets.

4. Basar/Flesh: The Judgment of the heathen nations. Rev. 16, 19:11f.; Ezek. 38-39, Zech 14. Accomplished during the 7 Bowls.

God's Judgment will occur in four levels, because He will judge everyone according to his level of understanding and authority. “To whom much is given, much will be required.”

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

 

 

 

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As I see the seals, the sixth one ends the great tribulation (unencumbered global persecution of the saints) and the seventh seal begins God's wrath

 

 

The 6th Seal Ends the "great tribulation"??  Can you show where the "great tribulation" starts in Revelation?

 

What does Jesus say concerning WHEN this "great tribulation" starts?  ...

 

(Matthew 24:15-21) " When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)  {16}  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:  {17}  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:  {18}  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.  {19}  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!  {20}  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:  {21}  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

 

What does Daniel have to say about this "Abomination of Desolation"....

 

(Daniel 9:27) "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

 

 

So in the midst of Daniel's 70th Week is the Abomination of Desolation.  What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?  This is Blaspheming GOD i.e., stand in the Holy Place and claim he is GOD.

 

Where do we find this event in Revelation....

 

(Revelation 13:4-6) "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?  {5} And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.  {6} And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven."

 

How can the "great tribulation" start somewhere before....then end in the 6th Seal, when this passage is between the 7th Trumpet and First Vial??  

 

And, Who are these "saints"??  Please be specific so as to avoid Equivocations (Fallacy), are they; OT Saints, Tribulation Saints, The Slain under the Altar, Born Again Christians (The Church), The Jews, The Jewish Remnant. the 144,000....?

 

What is the Purpose of the "great tribulation"?

 

 

the seventh seal begins God's wrath

 

 

(Revelation 6:17) "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

 

This is the 6th Seal.

 

Please list all the "nasty's" that were unleashed up to this point. (The first 5 Seals).....?  Would you label these as "picking daisies" or a time of Repose?

 

The mention of the sealing of the 144,000 prior to the wrath

 

 

Why?  They're mentioned here AFTER "The Wrath", which according to you occurs @ the 7th Seal (which is erroneous to begin with---SEE: above) 

 

(Revelation 9:4) "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."

 

This occurs @ the 5th Trumpet.  And the content of this passage most assuredly denotes that the 144,000 (See: seal of GOD/Foreheads) are on the Earth @ this point.....Right in the middle of it! 

 

 

It is a time of global persecution and martyrdom, a war against the saints led by the false prophet.

 

 

I have to ask you, are you just making stuff up?  Please show ONE Scripture that says or even vaguely implies: "a war against the saints led by the false prophet" ....???

 

 

The false prophet wages war against the saints for 42 months (Daniel 7:25)

 

 

(Daniel 7:25) "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

 

Who's "he" ?? This is Daniels "little horn"...the Antecedent from the previous verse (The anti-christ/beast)...

 

(Daniel 7:24) "And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings." 

 

You have "the dragon"----satan, the ac------the beast, and the false prophet.  To limit confusion, it's best to clearly identify the who specifically.... and the what.

 

 

however not all 42 months are "great" tribulation.  The days of "great tribulation" are cut short (Matthew 24:22); not the 42 months, but the intensity which makes it "great".

 

 

Huh?  

 

GREAT TRIBULATION: "Time and Times, and a Dividing of Time": Dan 7:25, Dan 12:7, Rev 12:14; "1260 Days": Rev 11:3, Rev 12:6 ; "42 Months": Rev 11:2, Rev 13:5.

 

(Matthew 24:22) " And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

 

How do you know that "those days should be shortened" are not already shortened to the full 3.5 years/1260 Days? Why would the Number of those days be listed 7 Times in Scripture and in the end...be erroneous?

 

If they were shortened, as in shortened the number of days ....where's the new number??

 

Also, could Jesus have meant Shortened Days as in sunlight being blocked (Smoke/Debris) or things affecting the Sun itself?  That would "shorten" the days. 

 

 

level of intensity since he is having to deal with effects of the plagues of the seven angels on his kingdom.

 

 

So the level of "Intensity" is being reduced from the seals to the vials?