What does it mean to “be perfect”?

[Augustine17]

Ok. Before Christ comes to save an unbeliever, they are sinners worthy of death and CANNOT make themselves righteous. Not by works, nor can they turn themselves into righteous people or else there would be no reason to be 'saved' by someone other than the individual. For example a drunkard. They get drunk every day and worship in the temple with their tongue and pray for forgiveness constantly because they are oppressed by sin. This drunkard cannot yet please God, but because he has acknowledged his sin and hated it there is a means for mercy. The drunkard might try to fight his sin with his own will power when it will fail. In this world certain people cycle in and out of rehab and still stay as drunkards. So what now? The drunkard is stuck and needs someone to save him from himself. In his mind he might hate his way and want to do good, but his heart is defiled.

 

34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. - John 8:34

 

He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. - John 12:40 This refers to people who are handed over to sin.

 

17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." - Genesis 2:17

The death here is spiritual. Remember. Jesus came so that 'those who are blind may see.' And that 'those who see may become blind'. What did he say to certain Pharisees?

 

Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains. - John 9:41

 

The one who is spiritually dead chases after the natural. The person has eyes that are spiritually blind and a heart that does not know God. Because it is disobedient it does not know the Father, nor is the Father in him. But the man who is spiritual and filled with the Holy Spirit chases after the Kingdom and His Righteousness, even that which he has not seen, and he is blind because he does not see it but moves by faith. He does not chase after money so he could prosper here, but the Kingdom which cannot be taken away. He is blind and yet sees. The natural man chases what is here but not the Kingdom which is greater. Thus he is more blind than he who does not follow what is natural. Who hopes for what they have? Faith is to believe in that which is not seen. Furthermore, The law of God is to love God Almighty with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. Also it is to love your neighbor with Godly love. These must submit. The heart must be pure, the body must be pure, the soul must be pure, and the mind must be pure, and the Holy Spirit which is given submits to God, and the Holy Spirit is given to those who believe in Him and if they do believe in Him that is accounted as righteous. Anyone who believes in God must believe that those who come to him and seek him are rewarded. That faith is accounted as righteousness.

 

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. - 1 John 4:8 - This supports the previous paragraph. 

 

As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father - 1 John 2:24

What abides in you lives in you. And if The Word lives in you then you will not die, but you live eternally. 

 

'Where is your victory? O death?' and 'He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.' are worthy sayings (internet out so couldn't get the exact verses of these the time I typed this.)

 

So for a murderer to believe Jesus exists and continue with a murderous heart, what is there for him other than Hell? If a homosexual who was made that way because he has fallen in sin continues with a homosexual heart and believe in Jesus, what is there for him other than Hell? But if he is circumcised in his heart, then he will submit to God, and it will be that neither of those things rule him. In fact the murderer may become exceedingly high in mercy, and the homosexual married to someone of the opposite sex and have many children. The Son will set free those who believe in Him. But is it a do or die thing where, if they do not believe they will never believe? No, it isn't. There were men in the bible who expressed, 'Lord, we believe! Help our unbelief.' The unbelief was in the heart and belief was in the mind for them. What they asked is that their unbelief would be taken away. Christ is the redeemer, and what is the redeemer? What is redemption? Redemption is this: to free from sin death or evil.

 

Christ came to save sinners from death. If he saved them from death, it means he saved them from the source of death, or else they would find themselves again to be dead by the growth of the seed in them. The source of death is sin. The fruit of the Holy Spirit leads to eternal life. He saves them from sin, making them sanctified, but not only as a declaration, he actually does it with them spiritually. I will use myself for example. I used to have disgusting lustful thoughts and though my mind new it was wrong I was enticed and found myself in a cycle similar to the drunkard which led to sin. I could not help myself well, though on an extremely rare occasion I could resist it took quite a lot of energy and made me tired, and I found that I could not resist altogether.

 

I went to church feeling horrible and disgusting and a reproach of God, and at one point I wanted to die because to God I was useless, and I thought I could never do what was good, deciding that I would rot and die and be forgotten because of my iniquity. However, I yet was urged to seek after the Light which would make the pile of dirt I was into something better. The Light that was not a fake culture or a passing trend or false religion or fake humility, but that was genuine love which I desired. Then, when I was saved, all of such thoughts I despised and hated from my heart. God had given me a new heart so that I could live forever. This does not mean that I am never going to sin in my life here, only God knows if that is true from now until I sleep. When I realize I sin there is tremendous guilt and then when I confess and ask for forgiveness God is there to forgive it. God is good! So he takes the heart which was defiled by sin and yet again it is sanctified. There is the forgiveness of sin, and unlike David the patriarch, because of the blood of Christ, after such a process there is no need for lost blood.

 

David lost his son born from adultery after the sin he committed, he also caused many in Israel to die when he sinned by counting the armies of Israel against God's command, as if the Israel that belonged to God was his, and why? He repented on both of those occasions. The law requires the sacrifice of blood. But the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ has become the eternal offering of blood for forgiveness of sin to those who believe. So for all who do not tread on his blood by enslaving themselves to sin constantly and purposely there is forgiveness of sin once they repent of their way.

 

So in all of this it was not possible without the mercy of The One and Only Almighty God, and the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ has freed those who believe in Him. Therefore it is not by one's own righteousness they are saved, but by faith they are accounted righteous in the sense I stated before. When faith is made perfect it produces fruit. Faith without works is not complete, and work without faith is not complete. It was after Abraham offered Isaac that his faith was made perfect. By being led by the Spirit the fruit of eternal life is made. Of course the man who received a heart from God does His will, but that does not mean that he is a sinner - in fact that is impossible, though he might stumble once in a while he isn't consistent in sin. This righteousness was rooted in faith, the man of faith submits to God's righteousness, and that faith was credited to him as righteousness. 'My Righteous One will live by faith.' Also in regards to the law it is written, 'whoever does these things will live by them', but the law of God is not outward but inward. What is within you will come out of you. If you believe in God and His way then the belief in your heart is brought out and made complete. There that should explain stuff I think.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Augustine17

[saved34]

There are two distinct aspects to Biblical perfection, yet both stem from Christ and his grace and power. 

 

Positionally, we are perfected forever because of the finished work of Christ, we cannot add to or take away from this position. We are in Christ, and God see's us in him. This is "The Righteousness of God by Faith in Jesus Christ". 

 

In experience, our perfection or maturity is also grounded in Christ and his finished work. Biblical perfection is not sinless perfection. "If we say we have no sin, we lie". Biblical perfection is the maturity in Christ to bring every fault to the Light of Christ for cleansing and forgiveness. To keep unbroken fellowship with God by not allowing our faults to go unconfessed before God. Not for salvation, this has already been settled by Christ, but for fellowship and power on this earth. 

 

Paul said it in Philipians, the perfect or mature mindset is to press toward the mark, to act as if your salvation depended on your performance for God. This is not as easy as it may sound, but it is what the scripture counts as perfection. Sinless perfection is a false doctrine that even God has spoken against. The flesh is weak and we will most definitely fail God in many ways while on this earth. 

[kwikphilly]

Blessings WilliamL.....

     This is a bit of a problem & not the best way to come to any real Understanding of Gods Timeless Truths,,,,,,These are 5 different verses of Scripture,taken out of their context because they share a common word ,,,,they are really very different topics & they are addressing very different references &/or audiences

 

Perfection is, broadly, a state of completeness and flawlessness.

The term "perfection" is actually used to designate a range of diverse, if often kindred, concepts. These concepts have historically been addressed in a number of discrete disciplines, notably mathematics, physics, chemistry, ethics, aesthetics, ontology, and theology                                                     Wikipedia

Perfection can be a person,a thing,a state or a thing  and the Scriptures referred to in your OP do demonstrate that ,,,,,,,,So now we know "what" perfection is used as and a broad definition of "What it is",your second question is easy to answer.......we cannot, as long as we are living in our flesh bodies,,,,,we will be as Christ is in Heaven(Perfect) when we receive our new,glorified bodies.........

 

We can ,however,strive towards perfection as Paul tells us but this is done not by our own power & might or achievements or strengths,will or accomplishments but by surrendering "self" and seeking the Heart & Mind of Christ that we may walk in spirit & in truth by the Power of the Holy Spirit...........being without fault & flawless is afforded us by Christs finished work on the cross,the Precious blood He shed is that which has made us clean & white as the driven snow,,,,,that is what is pleasing & acceptable  and has reconciled us to our Heavenly Father,the Blood of the Lamb(Hjis Only Begotten Son Jesus)     We live in Gods Righteousness,that is w4here our Perfection lies,,,,,,in Him & He has accredited us with it because of our Faith in our Living Redeemer

 

Yes ,we can strive towards perfection.........the desire to be ONE with our Father,Son & Holy Spirit

 

King James Bible
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you                                      John  14:20

                                                                                                                                           With love-in Christ,Kwik

[Floatingaxe]

Matt. 5:48 “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.”

 

2 Cor. 12:9 “...My [the Lord's] grace is sufficient for thee, for my strength is made perfect in weakness.”

 

James 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

 

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear: because fear has torment. He that fears is not made perfect in love.

 

What does it mean to be perfect? How do we become perfect?

 

The word used that says "perfect" is the word for "complete". We are to be made complete in Christ, lacking nothing.

[WilliamL]

 

The word used that says "perfect" is the word for "complete". We are to be made complete in Christ, lacking nothing.

 

Exactly. Which is what I said in post #9 of this string. Part of which says:

 

... The words used for "perfect" in the original post all derive from the Greek root tello, the primary meaning of which is to complete, to fulfill, to finish. When Jesus said on the cross, "It is finished [tetelestai]," he was using the same root word.

 

Our task is not to become perfect like God is perfect in the sense of infallibility, omniscience, etc.: that will forever be impossible. Our task is to become fulfilled and completed in our respective callings, that is, to fulfill the unique purposes for which each of us was created. We can only achieve that fulfillment when we have Christ's Spirit, the Holy Spirit, in us and working though us. If we do, then we can say at the end of our lives, like Paul said:

 

2 Tim. 4:6  I have fought the good fight, I have finished  [teteleka] the race, I have kept the faith.

[Sevenseas]

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.  Philippians 1:6

 

As both Kwick and Floating state, we are perfect in Christ.

 

You cannot begin by faith and complete the work of God through His Spirit by your own efforts

 

So lines like this:

 

 

 

God doesn't use His Son to declare us righteous, He uses His Son as the measuring line against which we will be weighed.

 

are a very bad understanding of what scripture actually states.

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

The word used that says "perfect" is the word for "complete". We are to be made complete in Christ, lacking nothing.

 

Exactly. Which is what I said in post #9 of this string. Part of which says:

 

 

 

... The words used for "perfect" in the original post all derive from the Greek root tello, the primary meaning of which is to complete, to fulfill, to finish. When Jesus said on the cross, "It is finished [tetelestai]," he was using the same root word.

 

Our task is not to become perfect like God is perfect in the sense of infallibility, omniscience, etc.: that will forever be impossible. Our task is to become fulfilled and completed in our respective callings, that is, to fulfill the unique purposes for which each of us was created. We can only achieve that fulfillment when we have Christ's Spirit, the Holy Spirit, in us and working though us. If we do, then we can say at the end of our lives, like Paul said:

 

2 Tim. 4:6  I have fought the good fight, I have finished  [teteleka] the race, I have kept the faith.

 

 

Exactly! I haven't read the entire thread, yet, but just wanted to respond to the OP. Thanks.

[Willa]

Hebrews 13:21-22 NKJV Now may the God of peace Who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, THROUGH THE BLOOD OF THE EVERLASTING COVENANT, MAKE YOU COMPLETE (perfect) IN EVERY GOOD WORK TO DO HIS WILL, WORKING IN YOU WHAT IS WELL PLEASING IN HIS SIGHT THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen

I think that these verses pretty much sum it up. It is God Who works in us both to will and to do for His good pleasure. It is all His work from the gift of faith, which is not of ourselves, to the outworking of that faith to fulfill the good works created for us to walk therein. Our maturing through trials, our maturing in our understanding of the Word of Truth, and our maturing in love are all a work of God. What I call maturing is what you call perfection--maturing is another word my Greek dictionary provided. But while we grow in these things during our lives, we are never totally complete (perfect) but by the blood of Christ and His life in us--that which is imputed on us. I go to heaven because of His born again life in me, having been sealed by His Spirit.

[Kan]

Isn't perfection about Love?

 

"be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect"

 

Be loving as God is perfectly loving.

Performances, acting, obsessive compulsive behavior, acrobatics, don't enter into the equation.

 

We can love perfectly, Jesus was counting on that when He came to this world, He had faith in what He has put in us - an ounce of faith. That's what perfection is.

 

Do 'mistakes' matter a great deal in a home where there is love? No.

Do they matter in a home where there is strife? Watch your every step !

Does a lack of love matter in a home of love? Very much - it really hurts.

Does a lack of love and hatred matter in a home with strife? Makes no difference, just helps it along.

 

So perfection has to do with encompassing the awkward and sometimes unlikable, and the mistakes, it is possessing a love which cannot see those concerns and just desires unity and unconditional acceptance.

 

God's love is unconditional. 

 

It's interesting that perfection in the scriptures is talked more often in the context of the unity of the saints, which proves that being perfect as an individual does not really occur without the unifying love with the saints. Perfection of the body of Christ. 

When the disciples came together confessing their faults and repenting, and unifying, then they became filled with the Holy Spirit.

To love fellow man without reserve, unconditionally, is the sign of a perfect life. And how would one know that about themselves, when all they feel is a hunger to be able to express better love to others?

[saved34]

Kan, you make a great point, Love really is the bond of perfection, and the most important aspect of our christian walk, but I seriously doubt there is any human being apart from our Lord, who has ever loved to perfection. I agree that a life of love is a great sign of a healthy and mature Christian.