Is Hell eternal?

[Shar]

12 hours ago, Ezra said:

So what is the second death and who says it is not eternal?

PHYSICAL DEATH = SEPARATION OF SOUL AND SPIRIT FROM BODY

SECOND DEATH = ETERNAL SEPARATION OF SINNERS FROM GOD IN THE LAKE OF FIRE

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Rev 21:8)

My point exactly.  It is the second DEATH.  We will all experience the first death, which is the physical death of the body.  You move onto another dimension and are either present with the Lord or in Torments within Hades.  There is torment there for a period of time, until the great white throne judgement.  Hell is a real, fear, undesirable place for those who enter there before the judgment.  The consequences of their unrighteous have an eternal consequence, not specifically a torment that will last for eternity.  Then, at that judgment, Rev. 20: 14, states that DEATH and HADES were thrown into the lake of fire.  This is the total end of them, along with those who names are not written in the book of life.  Remember, our Lord promises there will be no more DEATH.  Why?  It is just because we have the gift of eternal life, there simply is no more death.

 

 

How eternal is the second death? The same as “for ever and ever”.  Yes, a complete DEATH.  No longer existing. POOF

 

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. (Rev 14:10,11).

This has nothing to do with the great white throne judgment.  This has to do with the God's announcement of His wrath during the Tribulation.  This is the warnings that the angels made to the people on earth.  It began with the first angel flying in midair warning not to take the mark of the beast or worship the beast.  That those who did would experience God's wrath.. His full wrath following with the Bowls of Wrath.  That those who did would be tormented.  There will be no rest for those experiencing these bowl judgments.  Again, the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever is a symbolism of a continuous reminder, as I previously explained regarding Sodom and Gomorrah, and Edom.

As we can see in this thread, Satan would like to have people believe that Hell is not really what the Bible says it is.  This is similar to what he said to Eve “Ye shall not surely die”.  Christians, beware of new winds of doctrine.

This thread does not hold that Satan is deceiving others to believe Hell is not what the Bible says.  They believe in a real, horrible hell, that will have an eternal consequence for those who do not believe.  The difference, as also supported by Scripture, is that it may be destroyed completely by God, as stated in Revelation.  You can have a consequence that has an eternal effect, without necessarily having to eternally suffer.  Suffering in Hell until judgment and then eternal annihilation is certainly fearful and dreadful and something to seek to avoid.

 

 

 

 

[Shar]

9 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

that was a great observation and good lesson, to take time on and dwell about it ? thank you for that view,

 

You are welcome.  Whatever our conclusions may be, we must never think that Hell is something not so bad.  It is.  Those who go there will be tormented, but I believe Scriptures points to the character of God's love and that after the great white throne judgement, HADES, DEATH and those who are not written in the Book of Life will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and completely destroyed.  That is the true SECOND DEATH.  Not just a death of the body, as is the FIRST DEATH, but the complete death of the soul.  Remember, Jesus said, ...fear Him who can destroy both your body and soul.   The word "DESTROY" means "to put an end to existence."  Cannot get around that.  Blessings, while you ponder!

[SINNERSAVED]

3 hours ago, Shar said:

You are welcome.  Whatever our conclusions may be, we must never think that Hell is something not so bad.  It is.  Those who go there will be tormented, but I believe Scriptures points to the character of God's love and that after the great white throne judgement, HADES, DEATH and those who are not written in the Book of Life will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and completely destroyed.  That is the true SECOND DEATH.  Not just a death of the body, as is the FIRST DEATH, but the complete death of the soul.  Remember, Jesus said, ...fear Him who can destroy both your body and soul.   The word "DESTROY" means "to put an end to existence."  Cannot get around that.  Blessings, while you ponder!

Yes you are completely 100 % correct, for this is the God we serve that will give those that come to Him eternal life is forever, with God, as it says and then eternal death , for those who reject, but this eternal death is to those that cannot come back and is destroyed by the consuming fire, for God is a consuming fire , and when  a unrepentant sinner is found guilty by God  he is thrown into the eternal , Gods flames of  no other but Gods, lake made special to consume the soul and the body , and the spirit of what is left of that person, for the spirit of God is life in the body becomes a living soul, this divine soul can only be destroyed by the creator that made it in a special fire made to consume, and to eliminate once and for all until they perish,  death , and become ashes under His feet, as in example ?

Sodom and Gomorrah was of the same , they where wiped out by Gods eternal fire, for God is a eternal and consuming fire, there is nothing else like it, they were to be in eternal fire forever as stated , but it is no more , but ashes and is used as a future picture for us to look at, for what was in the past will be again, so it is the same, many will tell people that this is the God we serve the one that cooks people for ever for rejecting, and there is no end to His mercy , ? did you get that , . for the God I serve is  full of Grace and mercy,

but many will not realize this is what satan the devil wants you to see, and this alone turns many away , and to reject God, for we are talking love,  going to the cross  and dying for us , God, that did not have to do this , and then He does this for you and me , and takes away the sins  and death  all on HIm so that He can come and save that which is lost, !

but this same God is cooking people for ever and ever , this is not so, for by the spirit and understanding of scripture, it is also poetic to see how the worlds are used , and translated to be one thing and sound like another,

How then are we to say that our God is not  a Just God, by doing such a thing as this,

if we are to have the fruits of the spirit , in evil to forgive and to be willing to give our selves to death for the name of Jesus which our God is a God of love ,then how do we say this same God that taught you and me love like no other , goes to a CROSS !!! and sacrifices Him self for you and me to save us ? and He is unjust to cook people that rejected Him for ever and ever, this is not of God, but a lie from the devil and its been infiltrated to pull people away from the loving and righteous God that we really know and serve,

or is He by polar ? no He is a jealous God, a loving and just God, He died for you and for me , He gave as instructions, He came and walked with us , to know that God is a God of love, and not HATE, and what He must do to seal up the end of trespasses and sins  and the evil with all of the lawlessness, is to have this lake of consuming fire that can destroy the body and the soul , for this is why He made this statement, , for to destroy,  to end , to perish, to ashes under His feet, this is that you will as a sinner un repented , and rejects God, will die in this lake , until there is nothing left for you , and yes many and all will see this even the angels to see this must be done, and then there is after all said and finish, no more sorrows , no tears, and no more death for death has been consumed and its all over, just like sodom and Gomorrah. it is left in ashes , and its over, then there was a new heaven and a new earth , so why stay on lies that the devil is telling you , for God is a God of love, and this is truth ,

if you are not in agreement with what I just said, then may be its that we are not taking in Gods love and just righteousness, and listening to the devil more then to our God and savior, for this is for this is for those that perish, but we are saved through faith in our belief of God to save us and to keep us from this Hell = the  grave, and the lake of fire is real , and its until all is turned to ashes , and consumed, to be no more, blessings and I hope that this view , can help for understanding, blessings

[SINNERSAVED]

I wanted to add to this that hell , the lake of fire, and the judgment of God for those not written in the book of life, I would not want to be in their shoes , I would not want anyone to suffer what they will, but God is Just , and righteous and loving not wanting any to perish ,but to be saved and have eternal life,

but the death of the second life is sure and real , and it will take place, it is why we need to preach the word, and share with everyone we can possibly tell of the gospel, and to try to lead them to God for salvation, for we do not want anyone, to go to the lake of fire, we are to try to save them and pull them our from falling in, for once they have made a choice, if its rejection to God, then ,it is going to be a awful death , for this will be, a horrible way to finally die, and this is because they rejected the God, that went to the cross and Gave His life,

so what will we do with Jesus ? we need to really look at this as no joke, would you want any one you know to suffer ? then be bold and not be ashamed of the gospel , for it is Gods word to those that hear to bring them to repentance, and to those that hear to judgment of there own selves ,for they rejected what God has tried to give , for Grace and mercy for each and everyone of us,. through Jesus our Lord and Savior. amen..

[Ezra]

11 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

I have to debate you on this Ezra, my brother, I know what you believe and why ?

SS,

I will not debate this issue (since it is not subject to debate).  But I will post a separate thread on the subject -- "What the Bible Reveals about Hell". People can either believe it or disbelieve it. 

[SINNERSAVED]

6 minutes ago, Ezra said:

SS,

I will not debate this issue (since it is not subject to debate).  But I will post a separate thread on the subject -- "What the Bible Reveals about Hell". People can either believe it or disbelieve it. 

okay that be fine , my brother,

but do not think that I am, or others ,are dismissing the importance or Gods word by not agreeing that eternal is of the eternal God, and not physical eternal , when it comes to death , this is something, not what I really meant by debate ? , but to talk about,   and to see both sides, without ,being stuck on one side, for knowledge is key, and the lord said , my people perish for their lack of wisdom,

many are not willing to give up there point , or there view, but we must , examine ourselves , and follow what the spirit ,and the word of God really tells us, for I was stuck in many ideas and beliefs , but then the spirit makes it clear, and scripture interprets scripture, for you cannot go with what the majority says,

but only  what Yahweh says,

so brother, I understand , but let this not separate our love for each other over said, different view of Gods word, for my intent is to learn truth , and not to believe anything unless, it is tested , and tested over in harmony of the will and the ways of God, so let us reason together, and learn Gods word in harmony and in love, persueing the faith, and building each other up ,  in the faith we defend,  amen ...

[MorningGlory]

20 hours ago, Shar said:

Hell is not Hades.  Hades in the New Testament is the same place as Sheol in the OT.  Before the cross, Hades was a holding place for the dead.  It was two compartments.  Paradise and Torments.  Lk.16:19-31.  Hades' nature changed after the cross.  After His death Jesus descended there and preached to the spirits. I Pe.3:18-19, 4:6.  After His resurrection, He took Paradise with Him.  Ep.4:8-9 & 2 Cor.12:1-4. The souls of the unrighteous remain in Hades.

Question is:  How long will they be tormented?   Traditional view is forever.  The other view, is that immortality is conditional, depending on acceptance of Christ.  We must remember our beliefs on the duration of Hell is not cardinal doctrine, but we nevertheless need to know it is a dreadful place.

My first difficulty with the traditional view it seems to impugn His loving, merciful character.  I know He is holy and righteous, but is it HIs plan to eternally torment the vast majority of mankind, who is created in His image?

Second, eternal torment is contrary to some Biblical examples.  God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah with fire suddenly and quickly.  Destroyed the evil world of Noah, suddenly and quickly, order Canaanites killed swiftly.  In the law of Moses there was no provision for incarceration or torture.  Even sacrificial animals were to be killed with a precise method for quick and painless death. 

Third, it seems to contradict a descriptive phrase to describe Hell as the "second death".

Fourth, Hell is referred to as the place of destruction.  Jesus says in Mt.10:28,"Do not fear those who can kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to DESTROY both soul and body in Hell.  John 3:16....that whosoever believes in him shall not PERISH, but have eternal life."  These words mean that..  Destroy and Perish.  Poof, gone.

Fifth, there is a difference between eternal punishment and eternal punishing.  You may experience a punishment that has eternal consequences but does not mean it will go on for eternity.  Rev14:9-11 speaks of their torment goes up forever and ever.  It does not speak of eternal torment, but that the smoke of their torment is ascending forever.  This is a testimony or a reminder.  This is also referred as a reminder in the destruction of Edom in IS.34:10.  Edom exists today.  It does not have smoke ascending.  Obviously, this is a symbolic reference.  This is also stated in Jude 7 regarding Sodom and Gomorrah.

Sixth, Hell was created for Satan and his angels.  We see Satan will be thrown into the bottomless pit and tormented for ever and ever, along with the Beast and False Prophet.

Lastly, I Timothy 6:15-16 states ONLY God alone possesses immorality.  I Cor. 15:53 states the redeemed will not become immortal until the time of their resurrection.  In other words, it is a gift of God. 

This begs the question.  Can Hell be really eternal if the soul is not intrinsically immortal?

Nevertheless, there will be a time where the souls of the unrighteous will experience time in Torments within Hell, but Revelation 20:14 clearly states that DEATH and HADES were thrown into the lake of fire.  They are destroyed.  After the great white throne judgment, those not written in the Book of Life are also thrown into the lake of fire.  It is the second death.  A complete death.

 

The Bible says EVERLASTING torment.  There's no way to change, redefine or interpret that as other than exactly what it says.

[simplejeff]

yes,  "exactly" what it says.

in english perhaps ? ( I did a search):

You searched for

"EVERLASTING" in the KJV Bible

 

91 Instances   -   Page 1 of 4"

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Everlasting/

As it turns out,

in english,

"everlasting" has different meanings.

[other one]

I don't intend to find out personally.....   so it does not really pertain to me so i really don't care....

I really didn't accept and ask for Jesus to be the Lord of my life as a fire insurance policy....   It's because he the coolest dude I can imagine and I'd like to be with him for whatever.

[Spock]

19 hours ago, Ezra said:

Frankly, eternal Hell is not up for debate. It is a part of the true Gospel, and those who believe otherwise have "another Gospel".

And who made you the final authority that decides what is gospel and what isn't?  Unless you tell me you are Jesus himself, you are a mere man, and all men, including me are fallible. Don't think so highly of yourself, Sir.  Many good people are opposed to your thinking so please don't disparage them with your rhetoric. Debate the topic with scripture please. 

A concerned Spock.