Pope calls for worldwide abolition of death penalty

[Reinitin]

8 hours ago, bopeep1909 said:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pope-calls-worldwide-abolition-death-penalty-n523016

VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis on Sunday called for the worldwide abolition of the death penalty, saying the commandment "You shall not kill" was absolute and equally valid for the guilty as for the innocent.

Using some of his strongest words ever against capital punishment, he also called on Catholic politicians worldwide to make "a courageous and exemplary gesture" by seeking a moratorium on executions during the Church's current Holy Year, which ends in November.

"I appeal to the consciences of those who govern to reach an international consensus to abolish the death penalty," he told tens of thousands of people in St. Peter's Square.

Have you seen the walls around the vatican? 200 plus foot walls biggest thickest in the world.. they have not accepted one refugee in to vatican city. By his own words He has admitted He the Catholic Hierarchy are not Christian.

[thereselittleflower]

Reinitin, I think you have the wrong thread.

 

 

[Ezra]

11 hours ago, junobet said:

That’s all the death penalty is about: revenge. But Christ told us taught us about mercy, forgiveness and giving sinners second chances.

The death penalty cannot be labelled as "revenge" since a person condemned to death for a heinous crime goes through the entire legal process of establishing guilt, and a judge sentences that person. So that statement is utter nonsense.  Revenge is you killing someone who attacked you, or killed your loved ones (basically taking the law into your own hands).  The state does not take revenge but applies the laws on the books.

Not only is the death penalty stated clearly in the Old Testament, it is also in the NT.  Please note (Rom 13:1-4):

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.  Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:  For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Please note the words “sword” and “wrath”.  Those refer to the executioner’s sword (by extension any device to bring about death, such as hanging, the electric chair, lethal injection etc.), and “wrath”, which is not man’s wrath, but God’s wrath against murderers and those who commit heinous crimes.

So, in essence, what the Pope is telling the world (and a vast majority are Muslims who hold to the death penalty) is that he has absolutely no regard for the Word of God, but makes up his own rules and theology as he goes along. In fact, he is mocking God.

As to the salvation of that soul, most of those on death row have people ministering to their spiritual needs long before the date of execution.  Some repent and are converted, others do not. The reason such criminals forfeit their lives is because they take innocent lives in the first place, and have absolutely no regard for others (similar to Islamist terrorists).

[FresnoJoe]

13 hours ago, bopeep1909 said:

But what does the Bible say? Not what we want or think should be done but what does God want?

It comes down to....Do we listen to the Pope or do we go by what the Bible says? They definitely are not on the same page.

It Is WAR~!

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Matthew 9:13

Shame On Frances

[junobet]

14 hours ago, Ezra said:

The death penalty cannot be labelled as "revenge" since a person condemned to death for a heinous crime goes through the entire legal process of establishing guilt, and a judge sentences that person. So that statement is utter nonsense.  Revenge is you killing someone who attacked you, or killed your loved ones (basically taking the law into your own hands).  The state does not take revenge but applies the laws on the books.

Not only is the death penalty stated clearly in the Old Testament, it is also in the NT.  Please note (Rom 13:1-4):

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.  Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:  For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Please note the words “sword” and “wrath”.  Those refer to the executioner’s sword (by extension any device to bring about death, such as hanging, the electric chair, lethal injection etc.), and “wrath”, which is not man’s wrath, but God’s wrath against murderers and those who commit heinous crimes.

So, in essence, what the Pope is telling the world (and a vast majority are Muslims who hold to the death penalty) is that he has absolutely no regard for the Word of God, but makes up his own rules and theology as he goes along. In fact, he is mocking God.

As to the salvation of that soul, most of those on death row have people ministering to their spiritual needs long before the date of execution.  Some repent and are converted, others do not. The reason such criminals forfeit their lives is because they take innocent lives in the first place, and have absolutely no regard for others (similar to Islamist terrorists).

Don’t be ridiculous Ezra! Of course the death penalty is all about revenge. It being state sanctioned doesn’t change the sentiment behind it. Killing a murderer because he has killed, is exactly the retaliating eye-for-an-eye justice that Jesus does not stand for (Matthew 5:38-48). Instead he stands for rehabilitation (John 8:11), which just happens to be the aim of penal systems throughout modern Western civilization, except the US.

As for Romans 13:4:  A “μάχαιρα” would hardly have been suitable for a beheading  (which is how ancient Rome executed its citizens). That’s what a “ῥομφαία”, a large sword, would have been used for. Quite rightly the Vulgata translates “μάχαιρα” as “gladius”, the small sword carried by the Roman military. It symbolizes the power of the state. So no, Paul wasn’t a political revolutionary.

Neither is the Pope. He doesn’t ask his flock to overthrow the states that still have the death penalty, he asks the states to change their policy on it. If you want to keep the US in the ‘good’ company of countries such as Iran, Saudi-Arabia and North Korea on this issue, the Pope will leave that entirely up to you. But you should not pretend it’s belief in Christ, the Redeemer, that makes you support the death penalty, rather than your own lower instincts.

 

Love,

junobet

[other one]

I don't like the death penalty for we have convicted people of capitol crimes by a jury and later found they were innocent...   Our criminal justice system many times depends on how smooth a lawyer you can afford to hire....    Most District Attorneys in large cities are much more concerned with their conviction rate than they are justice and will do whatever it takes to convict people......

[thereselittleflower]

2 hours ago, other one said:

I don't like the death penalty for we have convicted people of capitol crimes by a jury and later found they were innocent...   Our criminal justice system many times depends on how smooth a lawyer you can afford to hire....    Most District Attorneys in large cities are much more concerned with their conviction rate than they are justice and will do whatever it takes to convict people......

For that reason alone, there should be no death penalty imho.

 

[ayin jade]

4 hours ago, junobet said:

 

Don’t be ridiculous Ezra! Of course the death penalty is all about revenge. It being state sanctioned doesn’t change the sentiment behind it.

Unless you have been a victim of a criminal, or the family of someone who was seriously harmed by a criminal, you do not know the motivation behind it. You are merely speculating from your point of view. 

When my brother in law was murdered, surprisingly revenge was not a part of my reaction to his murderer. I only wanted him to be in a position where he could not harm anyone else. 

[*Zion*]

8 hours ago, ayin jade said:

Unless you have been a victim of a criminal, or the family of someone who was seriously harmed by a criminal, you do not know the motivation behind it. You are merely speculating from your point of view. 

When my brother in law was murdered, surprisingly revenge was not a part of my reaction to his murderer. I only wanted him to be in a position where he could not harm anyone else. 

This is why I think life imprisonment should be literally for life, and not 25-30 yrs.  I also think prison should be rehabilitative, but not in a way that pampers, as some prisons have now become accustomed to.  Some homeless people commit crimes just to enter the comparative luxury of prison life.  And with shortened sentences due to good behaviour, it's a win-win in their eyes.  But I digress

[Reinitin]

I think the world should govern the world and christians should be governed by the Lord.