Violence Unfolding Between Native Tribes and Pipeline Company

[ayin jade]

5 hours ago, artsylady said:

It's easy for people to keep missing this point, over and over  and over again. It's easy for people (even Christians) to think of natives as second class citizens, lump them all together, and figure they don't have rights to protest for clean water and their ancient burial grounds.

 

If it was white farmers who were having the exact same problem right now, all of America would be behind them supporting them. 

No one is supporting the farmers in iowa who are protesting. Im assuming they are white. Racial comparison is flawed.

[ayin jade]

5 hours ago, artsylady said:

I didn't think so.   It's too bad you are so close minded.   You might learn something new or thought of this issue in a different light.  Oh well. 

You call me close minded? Have you looked in the mirror?

[ayin jade]

5 hours ago, artsylady said:

BOTH of these quotes talk about water, and then you say it's not about water issues.   I can't help you Ayin Jade.  You refuse to watch the videos and then post quotes that mention water and say water isn't an issue.   To me, you are a lost cause on this issue.

They mention the primary reason as being cultural, heritage, sacred land. Then an incidental mention of water. You asked for quotes in which it was primarily about their land, and I gave them. 

I have been involved in native rights for decades. You appear to have jumped on the social justice bandwagon without knowing the facts, only the biased emotional of radical native activists. Im familiar with their tactics. 

This is their "legal claim", not water rights, but cultural claim. 

Quote

As part of the ongoing trial, the legal team for the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe submitted documents to the court last Friday that certified one of their main claims in the case: that the pipeline will pass through and likely destroy Native burial sites and sacred places.

The only reason they are claiming the water thing, and its a side issue, is because of the clean water act. That gives them a bit more legal standing since the land is not reservation land. 

Now, why are you not getting this upset at the iowa farmers who lost their land via eminent domain for this pipeline? Why are you not equally supporting them and demanding we do the same? Since you brought race into the issue in an earlier post, is it because they are white and dont fall under your sense of justice?

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2016/05/20/farmers-sue-to-block-use-of-eminent-domain/84676294/

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/business/2016/08/23/dakota-access-pipeline-degrading-soil-farmers-complain/88945728/

[ayin jade]

1 hour ago, Davida said:

I also wonder why the natives think they should be treated any different from anyone else on this earth?

Not all natives think that way. Just the militant ones, and the sioux are among the most militant of the tribes. My husband who is 100% native american born and raised on the rez thinks they should just get over the past and move on. He managed, and his family, to rise above all the poverty and problems. Because they did not focus on the past.

Artsy I know you think Im racist because Im not supporting your view, but Im not. I have seen first hand other native right issues, like the hopi navajo land dispute. I lived on a reservation for 2 yrs and saw for myself the problems they face. I have been welcomed in native homes and seen (by invitation) places and ceremonies that are closed to outsiders. I met militant native activists. I know their tactics. This is just more of the same. 

[Steve_S]

Artsylady has been banned from the thread and will be issued a warning point for the following statement:

Quote

I didn't think so.   It's too bad you are so close minded.   You might learn something new or thought of this issue in a different light.  Oh well. 

 

[nebula]

10 hours ago, ayin jade said:

Now, why are you not getting this upset at the iowa farmers who lost their land via eminent domain for this pipeline? Why are you not equally supporting them and demanding we do the same? Since you brought race into the issue in an earlier post, is it because they are white and dont fall under your sense of justice?

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2016/05/20/farmers-sue-to-block-use-of-eminent-domain/84676294/

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/business/2016/08/23/dakota-access-pipeline-degrading-soil-farmers-complain/88945728/

I never heard about that one.

[WilliamL]

On 9/16/2016 at 3:53 PM, hmbld said:

Hanging on to treaties and the hurt from them being broken is not doing anyone any good.  The native americans are not being deprived of their rights to their traditions.  Why are there separate classes of United States citizens?  

Why are there "separate classes of United States citizens"? Because the U.S Government entered into legal treaties with many Native American tribes, treaties provided for under the Constitution and binding under international law. Treaties which guaranteed the tribes certain lands and rights and separate-nation status, but which provisions have been broken again and again with impunity by the the U.S. Government, state governments, corporations and citizens. Which acts of international law-breaking the state and federal courts have ignored time after time. This is lawlessness on the part of the United States government, its courts, and on down the line.

I venture that you perhaps may object to the lawlessness of the Obama administration in many instances; but lawlessness is lawlessness, upon whomever it is inflicted, and lawlessness God sees and will always call to judgment in his own time. Anyone who advocates the denial of Native Americans the rights and privileges promised them in lawful treaties are likewise promoting lawlessness, and will likewise be judged accordingly.

2 Sam. 21:1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. And the LORD answered, “It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, because he killed the Gibeonites.”

 The Israelites had entered into an ill-advised but still lawful and binding treaty with the Gibeonites during the conquest of Canaan led by Joshua. (Joshua 9) Many generations later, King Saul decided to abrogate that treaty, and God held Israel to account for it. Don't think for a minute that this principle God will not still apply.

Edited September 18, 2016 by WilliamL

[hmbld]

6 hours ago, WilliamL said:

. Anyone who advocates the denial of Native Americans the rights and privileges promised them in lawful treaties are likewise promoting lawlessness, and will likewise be judged accordingly.

 

I'm not sure why you stressed this line by underlining it, unless you view someone is promoting the denial of rights here.  I've supported their right to seek justice in the court system versus some of the protesters are acting in a lawless state when they attack and threaten people legally doing their job.  In some instances they are being portrayed as victims of violence when that may not be the entire truth, some facts are being left out.  

 

I'll further state that I do support all treaties being followed, and I am aware they are not.  I am also aware of how debilitating it is for someone to view themself as a victim all their life.  We are all victims of injustice as some point, 

[ayin jade]

30 minutes ago, hmbld said:

I'm not sure why you stressed this line by underlining it, unless you view someone is promoting the denial of rights here.  I've supported their right to seek justice in the court system versus some of the protesters are acting in a lawless state when they attack and threaten people legally doing their job.  In some instances they are being portrayed as victims of violence when that may not be the entire truth, some facts are being left out.  

 

I'll further state that I do support all treaties being followed, and I am aware they are not.  I am also aware of how debilitating it is for someone to view themself as a victim all their life.  We are all victims of injustice as some point, 

Furthermore, living in a continual mindset of being a victim keeps one from breaking out of that. 

[FresnoJoe]

10 hours ago, hmbld said:

I'll further state that I do support all treaties being followed, and I am aware they are not....
I am also aware of how debilitating it is for someone to view themselves as a victim all their life....

We are all victims of injustice as some point....

Injustice?

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Love, Your Brother Joe

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