Daniel's 9:26 & 27: what is the Author's intent?

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, inchrist said:

Jacob was actually traded, just like the Jews traded Jesus. One could say Rachel typifies the Jews.

 

See Jacob worked 7 yrs and got Leah...when Christ come his own recieved him not and instead got the gentiles. Rachel recieved Jacob not and got leah instead.

 

Hence Christ ministry is seven years or a "week" if you wish. Because Christ ministry was spent serving His bride.

 

Even though his ministry is for seven years, “in the midst of the week” he caused “the sacrifice and the oblation to cease” to be acceptable before the Father in Heaven (Daniel 9:27). And then, the latter part of his seven-year ministry for Leah will be fulfilled by his “Two Witnesses” service to his bride.

 

Then their will be a seven day wedding. After that Christ will then proceed to marry his other bride and then work an additonal 7 years for his other bride the Jews 

Ezekiel 39:9-10 there are going to be seven years of burning weapons during the Millennium.

 

Exactly like Jacob who worked an additonal 7 years after receiving Rachel.

 

 

It is a theory: that is about all it is.

[iamlamad]

inchrist wrote,

22 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Thanks! I believe I will!  I must give credit where credit is due: you were right in a way: I should have found only the PRESENT TENSE forms of this word. I repent of not doing that.

All you presented is a singular person in present tense of Christ....we are discussing plural of a group of people in the present tense that you still need to prove that is the rapture, in order to justify the scriptures on Christs coming is linked to Rev 7:14. You are comparing peaches to apples again 

So while I appreciate the effort in supplying the verses....it really was a waste of time, we know christ is coming to gather the elect....that does not prove rev 7:14 is the rapture.

There is NO OTHER example of a group with this Greek word, in the New Testament. In fact, I gave every example of this word's present tense usage in the New Testament, except the several in Revelation that were the same. I cannot prove they are the rapture, just as you cannot prove they are NOT the rapture.  All I have shown is that your argument of present tense, attempting to prove they cannot be the raptured church fails. Indeed, they CAN be the raptured church. In truth, they ARE the raptured church. When you get there, then you will find out they are.

Edited February 20, 2017 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

inchrist wrote,

Quote

 The nations gather ONE time, then they die.

 

Yes the nations are gathered one time...lets say Armageddon battle starts at 10:00, are the nations just going to appear out of thin air at 9:59 for 10:00 Armageddon battle?

Gathering is a process, Im not going to go to a cherry field and expect the cherries to appear in my basket....Im going to gather them. Its a process....its called logistics.

If the entire nations are going to attack at armageddon....this requires logistics...not every regiment in the world is going to suddenly appear simultaneously out of thin air at armageddon ready for battle at the same exact time. They are going to get there at different times to be ready for 10:00 Armageddon battle.

Case in point D-day largest military invasion the world has ever seen

Did the United States, Canadians, troops from Australia, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, France, Greece, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway and Poland just decide to suddenly appear at the exact same time on the south shores of Devon, ok chaps lets go to Normandy? No.... This all required logistics to gather these nations for a ONE TIME event, some arrived weeks prior to D-day 

Isa. 66:¹⁸ For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

I can agree with you on this one: they will all come, but may come one at a time or two at a time.

Why did you skip this one?

Luk 19:13  And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. G2064

In this story His coming will be a ONE TIME coming.

All I am showing is that in context this large group too large to number must certainly CAN BE the raptured church. Your argument that this group must come in one at a time because of the Greek word, fails.

As I stated, this is most likely a "historical present" word from Koine Greek.  In other words, IN NO WAY does this Greek word, "erchomai " show us that this group could not be the raptured church.

In fact, every other part of their description except "great tribulation" fits the raptured church to a T. I am further convinced, if John had just said "out of tribulation" most of the church world today would accept this group as the raptured church.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

1 hour ago, inchrist said:

Dont you normaly consult matters with God for guidance, like the bible for instance?

God doesnt say what exactly? There are two houses? 

He tells me how to deal with certain types of people just like you.

So WHERE EXACTLY does He say Ephraim are Christians?

That's your saying...

[Marcus O'Reillius]

1 hour ago, inchrist said:

Was Christ not strengthening an already existing covenant in His ministry?

WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE ONE 'SEVEN'?

Does it NOT happen at the END of Christ Jesus' First Advent?

Isn't that WHAT the BIBLE says?

So far, it's just you saying it by yourself.  Where are the other witnesses?

[iamlamad]

inchrist wrote,

Quote

 Case in point: the KJV rendered Erchomai  in our verse in Rev. 7 as “which came.” It is a “historical presents” verb. I disagree with your take on this verse:

 

So because its an historical present verb this somehow nullified my take on the verse? The verb still stays the same in its primary, however only the form changes due to its secondary being time. Its still linear.

 

By the way I happen to agree its an historical present tense.

You know why the events in Rev 7:14 are in a historical view?

Because John is giving us more details on what he previously observed because the elder told him that he knows why.... the martyrs of seal 5....both these groups in seal 5 and Rev 7:14 are actually the same group...both versions have them present before the thrown, both are under the altar. 

The words "coming" and  "out of" the great tribulation shows it is a continual action in a historical setting of seal 5

"Out of" = from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.

You are having saints coming out of the interior [great tribulation] outwards to the throne of God. In other words these saints are coming out of the depths of the source (great tribulation) during, not after and not before, being extending to its impact on the object (before the thrown of God).

Rev 7:14 is not the rapture, its the 5th seal with added details

You seem to come up with many theories that you cannot prove with scripture: this is just another.  Sorry, you cannot prove by the tense of one verb that this is not the raptured church. As a "historical present" it fits perfectly. 

" such occurrences dramatize the event described as if the reader were there watching the event occur. Some English translations render such historical presents in the English past tense, while others permit the tense to remain in the present.”

As John describes it, it is almost like we are there to see. In case you did not notice, those under the altar, the church age martyrs, have been MARTYRED. In chapter 7 there is not one hint they are martyred. It is your imagination again!  No, they have not been murdered; they have been resurrected and raised!

" stood before the throne, and before the Lamb "

Where on earth do you get "under the altar" out of this? Ah! Your wild imagination at work again!

The 5th seal: martyrs of the church age.

7th chapter group too large to number: the just raptured church!

Believe it: it is truth.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Revelation 7:14 is reporting the battle of Armageddon at the end of the tribulation period of 2520 days .... no doubt 

Axiom on Revelation:

ANY theory that mixes up John's God given chronology is immediately suspect and will be proven wrong!

Yours will be proven wrong. John does not jump around in time, except in parentheses. Rev. 7 may well be between the 6th and 7th seal, but it is in real time in relation to John's narrative. John has not yet even started the 70th week, MUCH LESS arrived at the days of GT in the latter part of the week.

[Daniel 11:36]

The seals are symbolic of the events of the tribulation which begins in chapter eight and ends in chapter 19

These seals are in no way the actual events of the coming tribulation, but only a leading up to the tribulation itself

There are a number of separate items that display and repeat themselves in later contextuals giving furtuer details as the over all narrative  moves toward the end of the period

Your idea of a chronological text of Revelation is not the way it is written by your comments upon chapters 6:1-17

Chapters 4 and 5 tell of immortal Christians and those of Israel [the 144000 thousand] who will be protected as mortals by the Lord during the coming tribulation period

The tribulation does not begin until chapter 8

All that is included from chapter 8 through 19 involves the aspects of the tribulation period from inception to conclusion .... then Satan will be sent to the abyss for 1000 years while the Lord rules upon the earth

The 70th week of 2550 days will begin in chapter 8 and end in chapter 19 .... the Lord will then appear upon the earth, and His christian immortals will rule with Him over the mortals of the millennium

Some of the human component will turn against the Lord at the end and these will be killed

Then He will gather all of the spirits of men from the beginning of creation who did not turn to Him, judge them, and send them to their second death in the lake of fire

.... and then eternity will begin with all who have trusted in the Lord   

[Marcus O'Reillius]

6 hours ago, inchrist said:

What part of this are you battling with?

 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.'

It doesnt say the covenant is already established at the beginning of the 1 seven 

No, no, no, no, no.

You said Jesus' NEW Covenant was the strengthening of an Old Covenant.

WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY THAT?

You didn't answer the question. 

You don't have ANY SCRIPTURE to back up what you say - you just say it.

And tell me, mister theologian, on WHAT BASIS do you say that Christ's NEW Covenant WITH US - was limited to SEVEN YEARS?

[Marcus O'Reillius]

6 hours ago, inchrist said:

Until such evidence can be provided, Christ is the true interpretation of he who confirms a covenant with many.

No, no, no, and NO.

YOU do NOT get a default setting to your position.

YOU have to PROVE Jesus PREVAILED -by  military might!- a SEVEN-YEAR Covenant.