story of Job, a few things that never sat right with me.

[kwikphilly]

Quote

Satan's First Attack
Job1:6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. 7The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it." 8The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."…

New American Standard Bible

Blessings notsolostsoul

   I must ask how you interpreted the Word of God as "a bet"......I would be more than happy to explain the chain of events that took place as a result of the devils accusations of Job...it certainly was not a "bet" ....I would appreciate it if you can tell me how or why you have come to that conclusion first

   I've heard many different opinions on Job(Chapter 1)Some refer to it as a challenge, a trial,a test......and now "a bet"......satan is the accuser,he cannot do whatever he pleases to a child of God,he has no legal rights but he definitely can accuse...he is an opportunist that seeks those he MAY devour......Standing firmly established in our Faith(as Job did) only proves we serve a FAITHFUL ,Merciful,Loving,Compassionate Almighty Father God

                                                                                                               With love-in Christ,Kwik

 

[notsolostsoul]

This is only in response to your question of how i came up with it being a bet. Kwikphilly

Bet-An agreement usually between two parties that the one who has made an incorrect prediction about an uncertain outcome will forfeit something stipulated to the other.

Satan brought God a bet:

Job 2 4-6

Skin for skin!” Satan replied. “A man will give all he has for his own life. 5 But now stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face"

6 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands;" but you must spare his life.”

God agreed!

The bet began.

 

Edited March 11, 2017 by notsolostsoul
naming who the response was for.

[1 John 3:23]

On 3/9/2017 at 0:08 AM, notsolostsoul said:

Why would God mess up the life of a good man he himself favored, all for a bet? Why does God believe that replacing in abundance what was lost fulfills the actual lost? In particular, how does he figure replacing the lost kids with new kids is better? Does God truly care so little for man that he allows him to be ruined and broken and then just be like oh well here, here are some new ones, all is well again. How is this loving, kind, just or righteous? It seems more selfish and cruel. It was all for a bet. Can anyone explain?

Praise God's Son Jesus Christ

this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously (1 Pet. 2:19-23)

Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of ... his Son Jesus Christ (Job 1:21, 1 John 3:23)

the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. (Ps. 19:9)

forget not all his benefits (Ps. 103:2)

He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. (Ps. 103:10)

the heavens are not clean in his sight. How much more abominable and filthy is man, which drinketh iniquity like water? (Job 15:15-16)

What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. (Rom. 9:14-15)

whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine. (Job 41:11)

all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? (Dan. 4:35)

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Eccl. 12:13)

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. (1 John 3:23)

the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. (1 John 2:17)

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever. (Ps. 23:6)

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. (John 14:2-4)

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. (1 John 5:13)

Blessed be the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God

[Reinitin]

On 3/9/2017 at 2:08 AM, notsolostsoul said:

Why would God mess up the life of a good man he himself favored, all for a bet? Why does God believe that replacing in abundance what was lost fulfills the actual lost? In particular, how does he figure replacing the lost kids with new kids is better? Does God truly care so little for man that he allows him to be ruined and broken and then just be like oh well here, here are some new ones, all is well again. How is this loving, kind, just or righteous? It seems more selfish and cruel. It was all for a bet. Can anyone explain?

I think the account looks very petty when you look at it from veiw point of flesh and blood with experiance of physical pain, emotional grief, laboring for things that can be torn away from us in a split second. It touched on things we all have experianced as unfair, unjust, unkind. Our own bodies attacking us, friends ready to gloat over our loss or suffering, those closest to us abandoning wise councel to our soul just to see an end to our suffering in the flesh. But, we have also the perspective of an enemy of man. And then we have an eternal perception revealed to us by Christ. Its one of those glasses you turn and look at it from job's perspective, from job's wife's perspective, from Job's friend's perspective, from Satans perspective, from our own perspective. If we dont look from the eternal perspective that God subjected all creation to frustration in hope for sons. If you cant not see an ocean of eternal beings filled with love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness. Made in the eternal image of Christ, fully displaying the attributes of God at the end being the purpose of mans begining. It does appear like a prideful indecent  bet. But, maybe that is why Christ is in us making the Father known to us. No one knows God because his ways and thoughts are not knowable to flesh. Within this painfull, frustrating, persicuted vessel is an enviroment for sons of God to be grown. Luke Job said"I spoke of things i did not know" but now i have seen.

[Jayne]

Hello notsolostsoul!

I've taught the book of Job several times and I always learn something new each I do.

Here's just a few things for you to think about:  

 

• God cannot bet.  You have defined the word correctly and a bet does indeed involve an "uncertain outcome" as you say.  There are no uncertainties with God.  He is omniscient.  Ergo, he cannot place a wager.  This was not a pastime or a sport with God.  This was very serious.  Satan - who is an accuser of the brethren - as the Bible says, accused Job before God of only fearing God and shunning evil because God had given Job the good life.  Satan then charge God to prove him wrong by "stretching out His hand" and taking away everything Job had.  He said Job would curse God.  God is going to prove Satan wrong, but he refuses to bring evil upon Job.  He tells Satan that he will have to do it himself and that he cannot kill Job.  There is no wager, no bet, no pastime.

 

•  What is all of this about?  It's about something called "sifting".  The Apostle Peter was sifted by the devil, too.  Jesus told Peter that "the devil has asked permission to sift you as wheat".  That's a frightening thing to know the devil wants to torment people so.  BUT Jesus also assured Peter that "when you return, you will lead the brothers".  Not "IF" you make it, but "WHEN" you make it.  Peter was going to be the leader of the early church, persecuted for preaching, and having to look over his shoulder all of the time for Christ's sake.  God allowed this so that Peter could come out of that experience a new man - a stronger man - ready to put his money where his sometimes hasty mouth was - AND ready to lead the infant church.

 

• Job had a hasty mouth, too.  Well,....not nearly as hasty has Peter's.  But Job's friends [and with friends like those, who needs enemies?!?] virtually convinced him that he must have committed some great big sin for God to have done these terrible things to him.  They led him into a false and legalistic idea of God's relationship with man.  Job denied it.  And that was true.  He HADN'T done something wicked to be punished for. BUT and very unfortunately - Job began to develop an attitude of pride and arrogance as he defended himself to these friends.  He got so wound up boasting of his "innocence" that he became obsessed with his own righteousness and finally, he goes to God and finds fault with God.

 

• It was a very good thing that a 4th friend came along and exposed Job's own self-righteousness to him.  Job does challenge God's righteous and God has to explain it to Job in the best and only way that Job will understand.  Job repents and says - "I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know . . . I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees You. Therefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes”

 

• God did not "mess up the life of a good man" as you say.  Satan did.  Besides, there is none good - no, not one - as the Bible says.  The beginning of Job says that was "blameless and upright".  That does not mean he was sinless.  If you read the whole book of Job, you will see that Job sinned grievously before God and had to repent of it.  In the beginning of Job it says "in THESE things, Job did not sin".  What things?  He initially did not blame God for his tragedies.  Later he did .... and God takes him on a journey that shows God's sovereignty and Job repents.

 

• Of COURSE, Job and his wife missed their first children terribly.  I'm most assured that a part of their hearts were broken for a very long time.  God did not just say "Oh, well....." about anything.  This book has been such a source of relief for many people to have a small glimpse of the big picture and we do not understand sometimes.  The devil is real, cruel, accusing of us, and plays hard ball.  God is sovereign, merciful, and loves us so very much.  And even though we do not understand the pain and agony of this world brought about by the devil - we can understand that God allows things sometimes for his own reasons - not to punish us, but to bring us through something and for us to change, grow, and become stronger for it.

 

• God is not the bad guy here.  The devil is. 

[1to3]

On 2017-03-09 at 3:10 AM, notsolostsoul said:

Why would God mess up the life of a good man he himself favored, all for a bet?

Job is a story with a lesson behind it.

Its about keeping Faith= faithfulness in God no matter what

I do believe the story of Job its about never loosing our faith=faithfulness in God and His word, no matter what happens, no matter what our friend or fiends say,  and  no matter what happens, to just keep our eyes and hearts focused on God and trusting in Him no matter what happens.

Where Jobs children good and faithful to God like Job was?

The fact that Job lost his children, it does not say that that the children were good like Job was good, the children were partying and drinking wine, when they died.  It is quite factual that we reap what we sow, and when we live a life that is worldly, we also get worldly results. If our parents are good and faithful to the Lord, it does not give the children license to live like the world does and not have any repercussions to them and be protected just because their parents are good and they are not.

 

Remaining faithful to God, whether in good or bad circumstances is what I take from the Story of Job. And because of Jobs continuous faithfulness even in the hardest times of his life, God helped him overcome and blessed him for his faithfulness.

[kevonb129]

On 09/03/2017 at 8:08 AM, notsolostsoul said:

Why would God mess up the life of a good man he himself favored, all for a bet? Why does God believe that replacing in abundance what was lost fulfills the actual lost? In particular, how does he figure replacing the lost kids with new kids is better? Does God truly care so little for man that he allows him to be ruined and broken and then just be like oh well here, here are some new ones, all is well again. How is this loving, kind, just or righteous? It seems more selfish and cruel. It was all for a bet. Can anyone explain?

God it seems to me had larger plans than would seem Immediately obvious on the surface, which is often the case. He has more than one plan. Yes his plan was to disprove satan, but his plan also was to perfect Job which is far more important than any suffering could be worthy of complaining about in the long term. God is always righteous. He was not unfair to job as may seem on the surface, but perhaps he has allowed it in some ways to seem that way to the unperceptive in his humility. He has plans deeper for this incident than we could imagine, including the stories use in the Bible to teach billions of people. Picture that. Was jobs suffering justified now. God knows what he's doing....

[daughterofGrace]

You've already received some fine answers here, notsolostsoul.  I only want to add a suggestion about the children.  At the end of it all, God gave everything back to Job that he had -- times two -- except for his children.  God only gave him seven more, not 14.  And you're right.  They would never replace the original seven.  But here's the thing -- I don't think those first seven kids were lost to him.  I think that he would see them again in the next life -- thereby ultimately giving him double in children in the end.

 

[kwikphilly]

Blessings notsolostsoul

   Thank you,I appreciate your reply to help me understand how you arrived at your conclusion ....although I don't agree I can understand

When a bet is made ,something is at stake or a wager is laid.....some form of "deposit" that the "winner" will gain.(both parties must have an interest for "gain",yes?).......This is not the case here because Job belongs to God,Job is a child of God.......The "accuser/satan" must ask permission because satan wants to trespass on Gods Property,God consents    Same as with a Christian ,the enemy is like a lion,seeking who he MAY devour     So what does God stand to gain?Everything,Everyone,is HIS    Its just my take ......my opinion with G lory to G od                                                  With love-in Christ,Kwik

[missmuffet]

Question: "Why does God allow Satan to attack us?"

Answer: Satan’s attacks against us come in various forms. 1) He uses the ungodly world (which he controls, 1 John 5:19) to stir up fleshly lusts within us that tempt us to sin. 2) He uses the unbelieving world to attempt to deceive us with worldly “wisdom” opposed to God’s truth. 3) He uses false Christians to try to mislead us into a false gospel centered on a false Jesus. 4) He sometimes physically afflicts us or our loved ones with sickness, crime, tragedy, or persecution. Knowing that God is the sovereign Ruler of the universe, we naturally ask, why does God allow Satan to attack us in these ways?

The Bible teaches that God allows Satan a certain amount of freedom (see Job 1:12), but that freedom is always limited. Satan cannot do all that he wishes. Satan chooses to attack God's children (see 1 Peter 5:8), and his design is always evil; Satan is a murderer (John 8:44). In contrast, God’s design in allowing certain satanic attacks is always good; God loves His children (1 John 4:16). Joseph faced many satanic attacks in his lifetime, but in the end he could speak with confidence of two opposing purposes behind the same events: “You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good” (Genesis 50:20).

We cannot blame God for what Satan does. Our vulnerability to satanic attack started with Adam’s choice to follow Satan’s lying suggestions in the garden of Eden. When Satan attacked Job through the loss of his family, wealth, and health, Job didn't blame God. Notice Job 1:21–22, "And he (Job) said: Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked shall I return there. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord. In all this Job did not sin nor charge God with wrong."

As believers experience the attacks of Satan, they can trust the truth of Romans 8:28, "We know that all things work together for good to those who love God..." Therefore, the assumption is that we will experience "good" things and "bad" things, but "all" of these things can be made to contribute toward "good" ends as God works them out. So even the attacks of Satan, although evil, can and will have a "good" result, ultimately, as God uses them to conform us to Christ, His Son (see Romans 8:29). Attacks from Satan, along with all other tribulations, can cause believers to love God more, resist Satan more, practice patience, and grow stronger in our faith in many other ways. Praise God for His sovereign protection. Thank Him for His plan to make everything—even Satan’s attacks—"work together for good" for you!

https://www.gotquestions.org/God-allow-Satan-attack.html