Why I am a Post-Millennialist

[Guest shiloh357]

On 3/30/2017 at 5:20 AM, Limey_Bob said:

This second view is the one I which hold to, basically it places the Millennium in heaven, where Christ rules over the souls of disincarnate spirits, during what is called the “intermediate state.” My own position has sometimes been called the A-Millennium view. But, I would reject that title, as it implies that there is no millennium at all, a position which I certainly and clearly have rejected. Also in much A -Millennium eschatology, Christ’s current reign is said to be within the hearts of his people (saints), many living upon this earth, which again as I stated I firmly reject, as I would regard the Millennial reign of Christ as exclusively situated in heaven. For this reason to save confusion, I am a Post-Millennialist, but one who would place Christ’s (spiritual) reign in heaven, as he is currently reigning, and this isn't a physical reign upon this earth, or within people’s hearts, he’s reigning in heaven NOW!

Okay, so where in the Bible does it say that Jesus is currently "reigning?"   According to Scripture, particularly in Hebrews, Jesus is currently operating as our High Priest.

The Scriptures about Jesus' reign are related to the throne of David, which is always an earthly throne.   Jesus' reign is a fulfillment of Messianic prophecy that has not yet been fulfilled and will not be fulfilled until Jesus is reigning from His throne in the millennial Temple described in Ezekel 40-48.

He doesn't take His reign until returns at the end of the Tribulation per Revelation 19 at the war of Armageddon. That is when he fulfills the prophecies of reign during the millennium, not after.   The book of Revelation doesn't support a post-millennial return of Christ.    The 1,000 year imprisonment of Satan and his subsequent war against Christ takes place on earth.   Nowhere, that I am aware of, does the Bible depict departed saints reigning currently with Jesus in heaven.  Can you provide Scripture that proves otherwise?

[angels4u]

40 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Okay, so where in the Bible does it say that Jesus is currently "reigning?"   According to Scripture, particularly in Hebrews, Jesus is currently operating as our High Priest.

The Scriptures about Jesus' reign are related to the throne of David, which is always an earthly throne.   Jesus' reign is a fulfillment of Messianic prophecy that has not yet been fulfilled and will not be fulfilled until Jesus is reigning from His throne in the millennial Temple described in Ezekel 40-48.

He doesn't take His reign until returns at the end of the Tribulation per Revelation 19 at the war of Armageddon. That is when he fulfills the prophecies of reign during the millennium, not after.   The book of Revelation doesn't support a post-millennial return of Christ.    The 1,000 year imprisonment of Satan and his subsequent war against Christ takes place on earth.   Nowhere, that I am aware of, does the Bible depict departed saints reigning currently with Jesus in heaven.  Can you provide Scripture that proves otherwise?

 

 

 

Amen ,I don't understand how Christians can even think that we're living in the Millenium ,all you have to do is look around , satan is the prince of this world ,where do we see him bound?

The Root of Jesse
…5Also righteousness will be the belt about His loins, And faithfulness the belt about His waist. 6And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the young goat, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them.7Also the cow and the bear will graze, Their young will lie down together, And the lion will eat straw like the ox. Isaiah 11:6

 

Satan Bound
…5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share inthe first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ,and will reign with Him for a thousand years. 7When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison,…rev 20:6

Berean Study Bible 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, angels4u said:

Amen ,I don't understand how Christians can even think that we're living in the Millenium ,all you have to do is look around , satan is the prince of this world ,where do we see him bound?

The Root of Jesse
…5Also righteousness will be the belt about His loins, And faithfulness the belt about His waist. 6And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the young goat, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them.7Also the cow and the bear will graze, Their young will lie down together, And the lion will eat straw like the ox. Isaiah 11:6

 

Satan Bound
…5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share inthe first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ,and will reign with Him for a thousand years. 7When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison,…rev 20:6

Berean Study Bible 

 

Yes, if we are living in the millennium today, it is the biggest failure in human history.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, Davida said:

Yes , it seems crazy to us. But I get where they are...I used to be there.  To those who aren't saved the world doesn't look that bad and they even think it is getting better- they are under the  delusion by the Adversary.   

I recall being under that deception, before I was actually saved. I didn't think people were that great but I loved the natural world & foolishly thought humanity had the capacity to improve. Now, since being born again,  I see that the natural world is living under the curse & groaning under sin as well & humans are helplessly wicked & need the Lord Jesus Christ to rule fully in their lives. Unfortunately the children of this fallen world and those who think they are "Christians" are grouped together --scoffing at the true Biblical born- again fundamentalist Christians who know the Bible and know these are the last days & Jesus Christ is returning to snatch away His bride soon & then we will be back to fight the great war of Armageddon.

Yes, that is true, but what I was referencing are the Christians who claim that we are in the millennial reign right now.  Mostly preterists and even some partial preterists make that claim.  

[FresnoJoe]

On 4/1/2017 at 6:12 AM, Limey_Bob said:

Please I beg you, do not claim that Christ's Kingdom has not been set up....
and is some still future event....
Christ rules now....

Christ has ruled as King....
since his ascension....

Please, I Bag You

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone. 2 Timothy 3:1-9 (New International Version)

Please Please Do Not Assert That Christ's Words Are Lies

Pray like this: Our Father in heaven, may your name be kept holy. May your Kingdom come soon. May your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. Matthew 6:9-10 (New Living Translation)

And Please Do Read And Always Remember

I will return again to my place, until they acknowledge their guilt and seek my face, and in their distress earnestly seek me. Hosea 5:15 (English Standard Version)

That Christ Remains Faithful

“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” Jeremiah 31:31-34 (New American Standard Bible)

And True

Then a shoot will come out from the stump of Jesse, and a branch from its roots will bear fruit.

The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him- the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of advice and power, the Spirit of knowledge and fear of the LORD.

He will gladly bear the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what his eyes see or decide by what his ears hear.

He will judge the poor justly. He will make fair decisions for the humble people on earth. He will strike the earth with a rod from his mouth. He will kill the wicked with the breath from his lips.

Justice will be the belt around his waist. Faithfulness will be the belt around his hips.

Wolves will live with lambs. Leopards will lie down with goats. Calves, young lions, and year-old lambs will be together, and little children will lead them.

Cows and bears will eat together. Their young will lie down together. Lions will eat straw like oxen.

Infants will play near cobras' holes. Toddlers will put their hands into vipers' nests.

They will not hurt or destroy anyone anywhere on my holy mountain. The world will be filled with the knowledge of the LORD like water covering the sea.

At that time the root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the people to gather around. The nations will come to him. His resting place will be glorious.

At that time the Lord will use his power again to recover what remains of his people in Assyria, Upper and Lower Egypt, Sudan, Elam, Babylonia, Hamath, and the islands of the sea.

He will raise a banner for the nations to gather around. He will gather the outcasts of Israel and bring together the scattered people of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Ephraim's jealousy will vanish, and Judah's opponents will come to an end. Ephraim won't be jealous of Judah, and Judah won't oppose Ephraim.

They will swoop down on the slopes of Philistia in the west. Together they will loot the people of the east. They will conquer Edom and Moab. The people of Ammon will be subject to them.

The LORD will dry up the gulf of the Egyptian Sea. He will wave his hand over the Euphrates River with his scorching wind and divide it into seven streams so that people can walk over it in their sandals.

There will be a highway for the remaining few of his people left in Assyria like there was for Israel when it came out of Egypt. Isaiah 11 (GOD'S WORD® Translation)

Including To The Jew

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

~

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 (King James Bible)

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament

[Kindle]

On 4/1/2017 at 7:12 AM, Limey_Bob said:

Christ's kingdom was set up at his ascension see Colossians 1:13: "For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves." The use of the word "kingdom" moderated by a verb in the present tense, proves that the Kingdom of God, over which Christ was ruling was already extant when Paul wrote this epistle. If Christ's Kingdom were some still future event, which had not then been set up, then Paul would have written Colossians 1:13 in the future tense: " .... and HE WILL Establish his kingdom of the Son he loves."   This kingdom is currently in heaven, where Christ (as King) is ruling over "souls" that is dis-incarnate spirits during the intermediate state between Christ's ascension and second coming (Revelation 20:4). Please I beg you, do not claim that Christ's Kingdom has not been set up and is some still future event. Christ rules now. Christ has ruled as King since his ascension.

Christ hasn't started his reign. He hasn't made his enemies his foot stool.

Psalm 110:1 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Christ hasn't tread the winepress.

There is no peace. Isreal is not reigning over the nations of the earth.

[Kindle]

On 4/1/2017 at 7:39 AM, Limey_Bob said:

Answer the question, are people always saved in EXACTLY the same way (I affirm this), or is the way of salvation different in different dispensations?

You have yet to give me a straightforward answer.

On 4/1/2017 at 2:35 PM, worthy said:

OK, I will ask again Are you a post-Millennialist or not?

 

[simplejeff]

1 hour ago, worthy said:

You have yet to give me a straightforward answer.

Perhaps because Christians don't agree with deists who claim : "Christ's kingdom was set up at his ascension"

Likewise,  they hold other heretical beliefs and false doctrines and blatant errors,  contradicting SCRIPTURE,

but ,  they generally won't change their mind.   The veil can only be removed by YHWH (as has always been).

[Limey_Bob]

On 4/3/2017 at 3:30 AM, worthy said:

Christ hasn't started his reign.

Worthy, I'd suggest that you look at Colossians 1:13 which states that Christ is ruling RIGHT NOW, the use of the word "Kingdom" implies both a King and a people whom the King is ruling over: "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:" This verse is written in the present tense; implying that this Kingdom was already extant, it is not written as a future tense implying that it was not then extant when Paul was writing. Please note that I do not believe as most Post-Millennialists that this kingdom is here on earth, being literal and physical at the present time, it's a spiritual kingdom which then extended and made physical (to this earth) at Christ's second coming. Thank you for your patience with me.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Limey_Bob

[Limey_Bob]

7 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Perhaps because Christians don't agree with deists who claim : "Christ's kingdom was set up at his ascension"

Likewise,  they hold other heretical beliefs and false doctrines and blatant errors,  contradicting SCRIPTURE,

but ,  they generally won't change their mind.   The veil can only be removed by YHWH (as has always been).

This is both extremely rude and a straw man, I am not a deist, this is merely insulting and misrepresenting me. I challenge you simplejeff to accept my offer of a one on one debate on your claim that I am a deist, if you don't accept and allow me to publically refute your lie, then don't ever contact me again. Christ's kingdom was set up at his ascension see Colossians 1:13: "For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves." The use of the word "kingdom" moderated by a verb in the present tense, which thereby proves that the Kingdom of God, over which Christ was ruling was already extant when Paul wrote this epistle. If Christ's Kingdom were some still future event, which had not then been set up, then Paul would have written Colossians 1:13 in the future tense: " .... and HE WILL ESTABLISH the kingdom of the Son whom he loves."   This Kingdom is currently in heaven, where Christ (as King) is ruling over "souls," that is dis-incarnate spirits during the intermediate state between Christ's ascension and second coming (Revelation 20:4). Please I beg you, do not claim that Christ's Kingdom has not yet been set up and that it is some still future event. Christ rules over his church of “dead souls” (in heaven) right now (Revelation 20:4). Christ has ruled as the King ever since his ascension, to deny that Christ is a King over his kingdom (of saints) spiritually ruling in heaven (right now) is an extremely serious mistake.