Is God responsible for Satan's actions?

[BobRyan]

On 5/7/2017 at 11:20 AM, Fridaywinds said:

How does one arrive at making a choice?

How did you choose to post that?

[BobRyan]

On 5/7/2017 at 4:12 PM, spiderman1917 said:

The Devil is a mass murderer that God had completely defeated, cuffed, and shackled on the cross.  God let the mass murderer run free and harm more people.  Why?

The devil starts out as Lucifer - sinless unfallen angel - "Covering Cherub" in heaven - standing in the presence of God. Lucifer then "chose sin and rebellion".

2. The devil then convinces 1/3 of the other sinless unfallen angels to join him.

3. God then entertains a notion of deciding the matter by force - without simply snapping his fingers and having all the bad angels cease to exist.

4. God creates Earth - sinless mankind Adam and Eve. He tells Adam and Eve that they have free will - they can choose obedience or rebellion.

5. Satan convinces Eve to choose rebellion and she convinces Adam to join her. Now both mankind and the fallen angels have chosen the side of rebellion of their own free will.

6. But since man was deceived and tempted into sin - and the devil simply volunteered to sin without having some other devil to tempt him... God offers mankind a way out - the Gospel. They could accept it OF their own free will. Still Satan not allowed to kill any of the humans - they must first join him and then act in his behalf killing their fellow humans. -- a lot of going back and forth among the humans until finally all of planet earth except for 8 people chose against the Gospel. Earth destroyed by flood.

7. Christ later comes to earth to pay the debt of sin owed by humanity - the Gospel agreement promised since Adam and Eve - the payment it required paid in full. Mankind now have that same Gospel in its fully-paid-ratified form. And can "choose" to join Satan or choose the Gospel. Free will choice still being offered. Still Satan not allowed to kill any of the humans - they must first join him and then act in his behalf killing their fellow humans.

8. But like the time of the flood, like the time of Sodom and Gomorrah, like the destruction of Jerusalem - the "cup of iniquity" is once again almost full as so many humans choose Satan and act in his behalf. The "sin experiment" almost over.  And soon the world will experience the second coming... which wipes out all the wicked living among mankind. Then at the end of the 1000 years raises up all the wicked...judges them and casts them into the lake of fire not just the wicked of mankind but the wicked Angels. Thus all sin, rebellion, evil will have ended but not before around 6000 years of free-will choice-making on planet earth.

 

Your point is essentially "why keep offering the humans free will? Why allow wicked humans to live on ..  why not kill them all and take the saints to heaven sooner rather than later". Even though some of those wicked might later choose the Gospel as did the thief on the cross at the 11th hour.

 

================ Then what?

 

Then the entire free-will sinless universe has the "lesson book of Earth" of sin-and-rebellion. Satan's history and mankind's history as a "safeguard" against free-will intelligent beings ever choosing rebellion ever in all of eternity. The universe eternally secure even though populated with free-will beings.

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by BobRyan

[Happinessity]

Is there anything that is not of God?

[FresnoJoe]

On 5/8/2017 at 3:12 PM, Happinessity said:

Why when Satan showed his intentions and led the war in Heaven against God did God let Satan live? And rather than destroy him utterly, cast him to the earth so that he could as the scriptures warn us, roam as a hungry lion seeking souls to devour? 

What was purposed in letting Satan live?

 

On 5/8/2017 at 4:02 PM, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Happinessity

 That is something you will have to ask God when you see Him in Heaven, you may not even have any remembrance of evil, satan & his minions or won't really care? Perhaps spirits, being made eternal are just that.... eternal?

 

On 5/8/2017 at 4:11 PM, spiderman1917 said:

God wanted Satan to be the god of this world for a time.  God also handed the world over to him and will hand it over to the Antichrist for three and a half years.  God wants it that way.  It's obvious.

God's riches, wisdom, and knowledge are so deep that it is impossible
to explain his decisions or to understand his ways.

"Who knows how the Lord thinks?
Who can become his adviser?"

Who gave the Lord something which the Lord must pay back?
Everything is from him and by him and for him.
Glory belongs to him forever!
Amen! Romans 11:33-36 (GOD'S WORD® Translation)

[wingnut-]

On 5/7/2017 at 4:32 PM, spiderman1917 said:

I was speaking of shackled and cuffed figuratively, meaning he was totally and completely defeated.

As God's defeated enemy, God can do with him as he pleases.  God doesn't have to let the mass murderer continue harming people.  He can protect society from this viscous murderer.

God wills that Satan harm, tempt, confuse, steal, kill, and sift people like wheat.  If God didn't want it, He could easily EASILY restrain him.

 

Job 38  

Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:

2 “Who is this who darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?
3 Now prepare yourself like a man;
I will question you, and you shall answer Me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

8 “Or who shut in the sea with doors,
When it burst forth and issued from the womb;
9 When I made the clouds its garment,
And thick darkness its swaddling band;
10 When I fixed My limit for it,
And set bars and doors;
11 When I said,
‘This far you may come, but no farther,
And here your proud waves must stop!’

12 “Have you commanded the morning since your days began,
And caused the dawn to know its place,
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth,
And the wicked be shaken out of it?
14 It takes on form like clay under a seal,
And stands out like a garment.
15 From the wicked their light is withheld,
And the upraised arm is broken.

16 “Have you entered the springs of the sea?
Or have you walked in search of the depths?
17 Have the gates of death been revealed to you?
Or have you seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Have you comprehended the breadth of the earth?
Tell Me, if you know all this.

19 “Where is the way to the dwelling of light?
And darkness, where is its place,
20 That you may take it to its territory,
That you may know the paths to its home?
21 Do you know it, because you were born then,
Or because the number of your days is great?

22 “Have you entered the treasury of snow,
Or have you seen the treasury of hail,
23 Which I have reserved for the time of trouble,
For the day of battle and war?
24 By what way is light diffused,
Or the east wind scattered over the earth?

25 “Who has divided a channel for the overflowing water,
Or a path for the thunderbolt,
26 To cause it to rain on a land where there is no one,
A wilderness in which there is no man;
27 To satisfy the desolate waste,
And cause to spring forth the growth of tender grass?
28 Has the rain a father?
Or who has begotten the drops of dew?
29 From whose womb comes the ice?
And the frost of heaven, who gives it birth?
30 The waters harden like stone,
And the surface of the deep is frozen.

31 “Can you bind the cluster of the Pleiades,
Or loose the belt of Orion?
32 Can you bring out Mazzaroth in its season?
Or can you guide the Great Bear with its cubs?
33 Do you know the ordinances of the heavens?
Can you set their dominion over the earth?

34 “Can you lift up your voice to the clouds,
That an abundance of water may cover you?
35 Can you send out lightnings, that they may go,
And say to you, ‘Here we are!’?
36 Who has put wisdom in the mind?
Or who has given understanding to the heart?
37 Who can number the clouds by wisdom?
Or who can pour out the bottles of heaven,
38 When the dust hardens in clumps,
And the clods cling together?

39 “Can you hunt the prey for the lion,
Or satisfy the appetite of the young lions,
40 When they crouch in their dens,
Or lurk in their lairs to lie in wait?
41 Who provides food for the raven,
When its young ones cry to God,
And wander about for lack of food?

[JohnD]

Is God responsible for Satan's actions?

IMHO God took responsibility for Satan's actions as his Creator when he set out to

create the physical realm and set into motion his plan of redemption for man (which he

personally became one for all eternity to come).

Otherwise God could have justly washed his hands of Satan and all the fallen angels and banished them

to tartarus and been done with it (and never had to create a physical realm).

[other one]

9 hours ago, JohnD said:

Is God responsible for Satan's actions?

IMHO God took responsibility for Satan's actions as his Creator when he set out to

create the physical realm and set into motion his plan of redemption for man (which he

personally became one for all eternity to come).

Otherwise God could have justly washed his hands of Satan and all the fallen angels and banished them

to tartarus and been done with it (and never had to create a physical realm).

Paul tells us that we will judge angels....  that is why the physical world was created

[Wolf Bridges]

5 hours ago, other one said:

Paul tells us that we will judge angels....  that is why the physical world was created

What scripture says that exactly ? The physical world was created so that we would be the judges of angels. 

[other one]

41 minutes ago, Wolf Bridges said:

What scripture says that exactly ? The physical world was created so that we would be the judges of angels. 

Common sense one

[BobRyan]

On 5/13/2017 at 4:16 PM, Happinessity said:

Is there anything that is not of God?

All sin and rebellion is not of God.