misogyny

[Willa]

My Bible is my most precious possession.  I cling to its words like I cling to Jesus Himself.  It troubles me when people dismiss its words and say it does not pertain to today because I have tried and proved it and know it to be true.  How can a person love Jesus and not love His words, or the word of the Holy Spirit as he spoke through the apostles?  They are the words of life.  

[gdemoss]

11 hours ago, Davida said:

Misogyny is hatred for women. Is that the correct label?

I am not suprised you would ask.  When most people think of hatred they think of anger driven hostility toward another.  Misuse and abuse also classify as hatred.  Simply choosing a king to rule over us is hatred toward God.  I was born and bred to hate women by a long line of misogynists, some of which were even men, but most were women.

[Spock]

33 minutes ago, angels4u said:

Spock, Davida is right ,her and I believe the same, we only live by the Word of God ,remember what it says in Revelation about people who add to the Bible?

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. Rev.22:18

1 Cor.2-6-16

6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.

7 No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 

8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 

9 However, as it is written: “What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived” — the things God has prepared for those who love him— 

10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 

11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 

12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 

13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. 

14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 

15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,

16 for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?”But we have the mind of Christ.

It's the Holy Spirit who helps us to understand the Bible ( Gods Word)

Was this really necessary? 

"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll."  Rev.22:18  SMH

Thanks though for the concern  and the instructive scripture.....but we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. 

I don't expect you will be visiting any churches with female pastors or elders or supporting any female missionaries but I would ask for you to consider  this one perspective-  Does God really want me to ask  people to bury their God given talents and gifts merely because of their gender, when even my Lord Jesus and His Father himself never expressed this prohibition in the written word?  Does God really want me to put that much weight in a LETTER written to one person (Timothy) or a LETTER written to one messed up newly founded Church (Corinth) that was trying to overcome its many issues dealing with Greek paganism and bossy women? 

Just food for thought. 

You don't even need to reply; I'm just asking you to think about it. 

Thanks,

spock

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, OneLight said:

I am aware of this all too well, which is why I question how you could say instruction to the church from any NT book is not for us all when it is speaking to us all.  If we took your idea, then every book of the NT would not be for us as they all had their specific audiences.

I never said that. I said that the author Paul was addressing a particular church in Corinth regarding women there to be silent because they were gossipping. He was not addressing leadership of women all throughout Christian world nor was he addressing the churches today regarding women leadership. If you really knew how to do exegesis on the Bible, you would understand who the author was addressing this statement too and why: CONTEXT.

[OneLight]

15 hours ago, Allroses48 said:

The passages indicating women shouldn't serve in leadership roles in church were only directed towards one certain audience. I believe it was Corinth and it doesn't apply to us today. 

3 hours ago, Allroses48 said:

I never said that. I said that the author Paul was addressing a particular church in Corinth regarding women there to be silent because they were gossipping. He was not addressing leadership of women all throughout Christian world nor was he addressing the churches today regarding women leadership. If you really knew how to do exegesis on the Bible, you would understand who the author was addressing this statement too and why: CONTEXT.

Strange you speak of proper exegesis, demanding CONTEXT, yet you claim they were gossiping.

1 Corinthians 34-35

Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

Where is gossiping ever mentioned?  Looks to me that they may of been asking questions and were corrected to ask their husbands at home.  It also does not as "this church" or "the Corinthian church".  Paul clearly states "in church".  Proper exegesis does not add to or remove from scripture.

[Happinessity]

18 hours ago, Spock said:

Any Prejudice against women is misogyny.  I will not stand by idly and watch women be treated like second class citizens. They are not!  Certainly not IN CHRIST! 

Ask the WW2 survivors how important women were to the war cause?  If they can run the factories and make airplanes and ships, they can also teach the word of God to me. I will listen to any Spirit filled woman any day of the week. 

Heck, why do you think God made woman anyhow?  Because he realized he made a mistake making man and He wanted to perfect his error.  Hehe

 

 

LOL 

Great words brother.  I don't think we have to defend God's plan for women. I think those that argue God shows prejudice toward women should be ashamed. We are all one in Christ. Any other time that would settle it. God said it, I believe it, and that's it. That's typically how it goes with us bible believers. Except for this case of women pastors. 

It's nonsense. People don't agree with a woman being a pastor that's their fault letting their prejudice second guess God. God calls whom he will to serve. Do we really think God looks at the world and says, aw shucks, she can't spread the word of my son because I made her female! Next?

That's man's thinking. Not God's. We can't know the mind of God. God says that in his word. And yet there are those of us who second guess God on the issue of women pastors. 

 

[Happinessity]

19 hours ago, OneLight said:

 

 

 

 

I placed in bold and underlined the blanket statement.  From that point, I read that you were talking about all services and not any specific service, which is why I said ti was a blanket statement. 

As for certain official positions, scripture speaks for itself.

Your blanket statement not withstanding? 

Scripture does speak for itself. And nowhere does God say women can't be pastors.  

[Happinessity]

19 hours ago, OneLight said:

None of these posts says women cannot work in ministry.  Some say they cannot hold specific offices, but never a blanket statement like you claim.

Of course that isn't true as one can discern when they read through the links. Claiming blanket statement doesn't offset the evidence that there are posts that say exactly that. Women can't be pastors. Which we all know of course is a service God calls people to. 

 

[Spock]

48 minutes ago, Happinessity said:

LOL 

Great words brother.  I don't think we have to defend God's plan for women. I think those that argue God shows prejudice toward women should be ashamed. We are all one in Christ. Any other time that would settle it. God said it, I believe it, and that's it. That's typically how it goes with us bible believers. Except for this case of women pastors. 

It's nonsense. People don't agree with a woman being a pastor that's their fault letting their prejudice second guess God. God calls whom he will to serve. Do we really think God looks at the world and says, aw shucks, she can't spread the word of my son because I made her female! Next?

That's man's thinking. Not God's. We can't know the mind of God. God says that in his word. And yet there are those of us who second guess God on the issue of women pastors. 

 

 

50 minutes ago, Happinessity said:

LOL 

Great words brother.  I don't think we have to defend God's plan for women. I think those that argue God shows prejudice toward women should be ashamed. We are all one in Christ. Any other time that would settle it. God said it, I believe it, and that's it. That's typically how it goes with us bible believers. Except for this case of women pastors. 

It's nonsense. People don't agree with a woman being a pastor that's their fault letting their prejudice second guess God. God calls whom he will to serve. Do we really think God looks at the world and says, aw shucks, she can't spread the word of my son because I made her female! Next?

That's man's thinking. Not God's. We can't know the mind of God. God says that in his word. And yet there are those of us who second guess God on the issue of women pastors. 

 

Thank you for the kind words.  This is an interesting thread. We seem to be equally divided here. 

People who don't want to apply context and culture have some squirming to do too. Besides paul never condoning slavery, you have my favorite- head covering in 1 Cor 11.

I wonder if all the women who do not believe they can teach a man also wear head coverings while at church, much like the Muslim ladies do with their hijab or burkas. I've debated this with some ladies at work and they had to find some man's commentary that said Paul meant "long hair" is their head covering. In other words, women had to have long hair to please the Lord.  I had to chuckle on that one, and said, "whatever makes you feel good, fine by me...". But I walked away wondering how a lady with short hair would feel on that interpretation. If you notice verse 3 below, Paul even said, "and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you."  Hmmmm, "traditions"........are these traditions inerrant and infallible too? I wonder. 

oh well, all you can do is represent your position and pray that Gods wisdom goes forth for His glory and of course always keep in mind- major in the majors and minor in the minors. 

Cheers and blessings going your way,

spock

Here is that 1 Cor 11 passage for those interested:

2I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. 3But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,a and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. 6For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

7A man ought not to cover his head,b since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her ownc head, because of the angels. 11Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.

13Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. 16If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God.

[wingnut-]

35 minutes ago, Spock said:

 

Thank you for the kind words.  This is an interesting thread. We seem to be equally divided here. 

People who don't want to apply context and culture have some squirming to do too. Besides paul never condoning slavery, you have my favorite- head covering in 1 Cor 11.

I wonder if all the women who do not believe they can teach a man also wear head coverings while at church, much like the Muslim ladies do with their hijab or burkas. I've debated this with some ladies at work and they had to find some man's commentary that said Paul meant "long hair" is their head covering. In other words, women had to have long hair to please the Lord.  I had to chuckle on that one, and said, "whatever makes you feel good, fine by me...". But I walked away wondering how a lady with short hair would feel on that interpretation. If you notice verse 3 below, Paul even said, "and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you."  Hmmmm, "traditions"........are these traditions inerrant and infallible too? I wonder. 

oh well, all you can do is represent your position and pray that Gods wisdom goes forth for His glory and of course always keep in mind- major in the majors and minor in the minors. 

Cheers and blessings going your way,

spock

Here is that 1 Cor 11 passage for those interested:

2I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. 3But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,a and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. 6For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

7A man ought not to cover his head,b since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her ownc head, because of the angels. 11Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.

13Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. 16If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God.

 

Hello brother,

Just curious if you happened to notice what the last verse of that passage says?

 

16 If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God.

 

Still convinced that is just for one church despite the plural use of the word?

God bless