Bethel Church - A Different Gospel

[Willie T]

14 minutes ago, Shazzmazz said:

I was at the church for a weekend, it was probably one of the most blessed and refreshing time I've had in a while. Met people who are so in love with Jesus and demonstrate His love, really kind and friendly people too.

 

A  true heart for God, such as yours, is sorely needed in this world.

[seeking the lost]

23 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

The truth is the truth.   Bethel Church is a mess and they are false teachers with a false gospel.   They are big into lying signs and wonders, as is most of the Charismatic movement.  

The Jesus that they preach is not another Jesus.  They believe in the virgin birth, the sinless life, the vicarious death for the sin of man, the burial in the grave, the bodily resurrection, the ascension etc.  What part of your Jesus makes their Jesus another Jesus.  They are not advocating unrighteousness.  They do advocate the first commandment and the second commandment as well.  How does this differ from your stance?

There may be things that they do that you do not understand but they do stand for truth and righteousness.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

The Jesus that they preach is not another Jesus. 

They do preach a different Jesus.

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They believe in the virgin birth, the sinless life, the vicarious death for the sin of man, the burial in the grave, the bodily resurrection, the ascension etc. They are not advocating unrighteousness.  They do advocate the first commandment and the second commandment as well.  How does this differ from your stance?  There may be things that they do that you do not understand but they do stand for truth and righteousness.

Of course.  Mix in enough truth to make the error look plausible.  Lot's false teachers like Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyers, Kenneth Copeland, et al., believe those things as well. 

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What part of your Jesus makes their Jesus another Jesus. 

He not only preaches another Jesus but another gospel.

Bill Johnson, their "pastor"  claims that Jesus laid aside His divinity while on earth.   He teaches against the fact that Jesus was God on earth in human flesh while on earth.   Many of his ilk also teach against Jesus being God in the flesh during his earthly ministry.

Bill Johnson also teaches the false prosperity gospel that is no gospel at all.   Jesus didn't' die on the cross in order fulfill people's unregenerate appetites.   He didn't die on the cross so we would have better cars, more money, bigger houses and better behaved children.    The gospel that Johnson preaches doesn't require anyone to change.   You don't' have to change, you don't have Jesus as Savior to believe in the prosperity gospel because everyone, sinners included want to be prosperous.   You don't have to be saved to want what the prosperity gospel offers.  

[Fidei Defensor]

On 7/2/2018 at 12:36 PM, seeking the lost said:

The Jesus that they preach is not another Jesus.  They believe in the virgin birth, the sinless life, the vicarious death for the sin of man, the burial in the grave, the bodily resurrection, the ascension etc.  What part of your Jesus makes their Jesus another Jesus.  They are not advocating unrighteousness.  They do advocate the first commandment and the second commandment as well.  How does this differ from your stance?

There may be things that they do that you do not understand but they do stand for truth and righteousness.

Amen. “Do not judge, or you will be judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.” (Matthew 7:1-2) and, “therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.” (Romans 14:13), and “You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.” (Romans 14:10). 

[ayin jade]

2 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Amen. “Do not judge, or you will be judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.” (Matthew 7:1-2) and, “therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.” (Romans 14:13), and “You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.” (Romans 14:10). 

1 Cor 5 clearly states judge within the church. John 7:24 says judge righteous judgement. 

[Fidei Defensor]

19 minutes ago, Davida said:

Signs of the End of the Age
Matthew 24: 4- 6 " 4 Jesus answered, “SEE TO IT that NO One Deceive you. 5 For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come.…"

That is like LDS, Coptic, JW, and others.

When a denomination confesses Jesus Christ as Son of God and the Savior who is One with the Father and Holy Spirit, they arnt a deception or false christ. 

[Fidei Defensor]

1 hour ago, ayin jade said:

1 Cor 5 clearly states judge within the church. John 7:24 says judge righteous judgement. 

We can judge people’s fruit and angels (1 Corinthians 6:3), but we cannot judge a person heart and the secrets within, “This will come to pass on that day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel.” (Romans 2:16) and, “Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.” (1 Corinthians  4:5). 

I would be cautious about judging sntone’s salvation unless they either a) do the requirement publicly to be saved (Romans 10:9-10) or b) the opposite (Hebrews 6:4-7). If the have not done either a or b we cannot know if they are saved or not by any definitive measure. 

[Fidei Defensor]

19 minutes ago, Davida said:

Really??  We are to judge by righteous judgment.   So you can't tell anything is wrong with Johson & bethel church  by the reading of the word of God & by knowing sound doctrine huh??  Can't tell , huh? Not By listening to their teachings & seeing the ungodly spiritual antics  that something is very very wrong with Bethel Church & the leadership there??  that is too bad , and so by using, no spiritual discernment whatsoever you are calling people to gather together and unify??   No thanks it does not sound like a biblical gathering would form but it would be a lowering of standards and a mixing dark with light. 

I didn’t say you can’t test the spirits (1 John 4:1-3) or that you can’t test for false gospels (Galatians 1:8-9, 2 Corinthians 11:2-15). I said you can’t know the secrets of their hearts and judge whether they are saved or not, with the exception of Romans 10:9-10, John 3:16-18,  and Hebrews 6:5-6. 

If their doctrine veers from the Gospel ans Sound Doctrine like LDS, Copts, JW, and etc then you can make a strong assessment and if in your argument they declare a contrary gospel or have it declares in writing then you have your public proof and can decry they are deceived. 

My concern is that we can veer from testing doctrine into the Protestant Inquisition where we start questioning if someone's saved in haunches and fear and self righteous judgement.l we will become deceived ourselves. 

We should confront false doctrines, false Christs, and etc. But let us not get so caught up in this we begin calling into question everyone around us and judging their souls when that belongs to Jesus. We may judge systems, doctrines, Angels, fruit, and teaching; but Jesus will judge the soul and individual.   

Edited August 30, 2018 by Fidei Defensor

[ayin jade]

27 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I didn’t say you can’t test the spirits (1 John 4:1-3) or that you can’t test for false gospels (Galatians 1:8-9, 2 Corinthians 11:2-15). I said you can’t know the secrets of their hearts and judge whether they are saved or not, with the exception of Romans 10:9-10, John 3:16-18,  and Hebrews 6:5-6. 

If their doctrine veers from the Gospel ans Sound Doctrine like LDS, Copts, JW, and etc then you can make a strong assessment and if in your argument they declare a contrary gospel or have it declares in writing then you have your public proof and can decry they are deceived. 

My concern is that we can veer from testing doctrine into the Protestant Inquisition where we start questioning if someone's saved in haunches and fear and self righteous judgement.l we will become deceived ourselves. 

We should confront false doctrines, false Christs, and etc. But let us not get so caught up in this we begin calling into question everyone around us and judging their souls when that belongs to Jesus. We may judge systems, doctrines, Angels, fruit, and teaching; but Jesus will judge the soul and individual.   

Im curious. In what way are the copts off? Mormons and jws I know are off, but whats with the coptics?

[Fidei Defensor]

5 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

Im curious. In what way are the copts off? Mormons and jws I know are off, but whats with the coptics?

The Coptic Church believes Jesus is only a prophet, they do not agree with Biblical Christianity that  confesses Jesus is the Son of God (1 John 4:15, John 6:40, Romans 1:1-5) and God Incarnate (Colossians 2:9, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1, John 1:1-17).