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Quasar93

Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church

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2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Where in the Old Testament is the last trumpet, the trumpet of God, that Paul is referring to?  Where do God's servants, the prophets, mention this specific trumpet?

If a trumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble?
If a calamity occurs in a city has not the Lord done it?
Surely the Lord God does nothing
Unless He reveals His secret counsel

To His servants the prophets.
A lion has roared! Who will not fear?
The Lord God has spoken! Who can but prophesy?  Amos 3:6-8

Surely something of such significance, of such magnitude was revealed to the prophets.  Where is it?  Or did Paul just make it up?

There is no place I know of in the OT documenting the last trumpet of God.  It would appear as a prophecy, if it were to appear at all.  The first trumpet call is documented in the OT as follows:

Ex.19:16 On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast. Everyone in the camp trembled. 17Then Moses led the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. 18Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the Lord descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, and the whole mountainb trembled violently. 19As the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and the voice of God answered him.c"

 

 

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Edited by Quasar93
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2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Where in the Old Testament is the last trumpet, the trumpet of God, that Paul is referring to?  Where do God's servants, the prophets, mention this specific trumpet?

If a trumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble?
If a calamity occurs in a city has not the Lord done it?
Surely the Lord God does nothing
Unless He reveals His secret counsel

To His servants the prophets.
A lion has roared! Who will not fear?
The Lord God has spoken! Who can but prophesy?  Amos 3:6-8

Surely something of such significance, of such magnitude was revealed to the prophets.  Where is it?  Or did Paul just make it up?

I am unable to find the reply I posted for your above remarks, in which I wrote., "Will return shortly to finish."  There is no reference in the OT to the last trumpet of God.  If there were, it would be prophecy.  The following is the first trumpet call of God, in the OT below:

Ex.19:16 On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast. Everyone in the camp trembled. 17Then Moses led the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. 18Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the Lord descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, and the whole mountainb trembled violently. 19As the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and the voice of God answered him.c"

 

Quasar93

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1 minute ago, Quasar93 said:

I am unable to find the reply I posted for your above remarks, in which I wrote., "Will return shortly to finish."  There is no reference in the OT to the last trumpet of God.  If there were, it would be prophecy.  The following is the first trumpet call of God, in the OT below:

Ex.19:16 On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast. Everyone in the camp trembled. 17Then Moses led the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. 18Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the Lord descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, and the whole mountainb trembled violently. 19As the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and the voice of God answered him.c"

 

Quasar93

Precisely.  I can agree with that.  Here is the last:

Then the Lord will appear over them,
And His arrow will go forth like lightning;
And the Lord God will blow the trumpet,
And will march in the storm winds of the south.  Zechariah 9:14

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43 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

Attempting to put words in my mouth with your imagination won't fly.  Show me where I made any such statement or inferred it.

I didn't put words in your mouth.  I asked you a question.  You referenced a passage that had nothing to do with the sounding of a trumpet and then excluded the entire OT with this post:

1 hour ago, Quasar93 said:

Why would anyone be seeking Scriptural teachings about the Church, in the OT, when it is addressed to Israel?  The teachings about the Church begin at Pentecost, together with Jesus fulfilling the prophesied New Covenant, opening the doors to the Gospel being taught to the Gentiles, by Paul?

Since the last trumpet of God isn't clarified in the NT, and you exclude the OT, and then refer to a passage that has no trumpet, what other choices are there?

The new covenant is in the OT.  Pentecost is in the OT and quoted in Acts.  Do you realize how many OT quotes are in the NT?  Dispensationalism is not your friend.  There is no "church age".  There is a point in time when the new covenant began.  The new covenant is eternal.

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There is a "church" age .... it began at Pentecost .... here is where it will suddenly end [Romans 11:25]

Then will come the tribulation period 

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39 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

There is a "church" age .... it began at Pentecost .... here is where it will suddenly end [Romans 11:25]

Then will come the tribulation period 

The new covenant is what began at Pentecost, not some "church age".  I'd recommend abandoning the man made doctrine of dispensationalism along with all of its terminology.  There are only believers, and unbelievers.

 

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21 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.


Quasar93

My condensed version might read something like this: Why would the bridegroom severely beat up his bride before their wedding and wedding supper? The catching away (Rapture) almost exactly mirrors a traditional Jewish wedding. Everything from the preparation of the dwelling at his fathers house, to the wait, watching, unexpected arrival of the bridegroom to snatch his bride in secret, taking her to his fathers house whom he prepared for her, to the wedding feast and celebration. It appears to be an exact match.

Edited by Dennis1209
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16 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

Yes; unfortunately, many here will debate it, thinking that we're supposed to be here for several reasons they can list off. It doesn't make it any less true, just all that more heartbreaking when they discover that God wasn't going to leave us here for the Tribulation after all.

I totally believe in the pre- tribulation Rapture and it's seen in many places in scripture.

But here's one thing that's never been explained to my satisfaction.

Luk 21:36  Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. [emphasis mine]

Taken in context to whom Jesus is talking to, I'm wondering what this verse is telling us?

Anyone? Anyone?

Edited by Dennis1209
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1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

I totally believe in the pre- tribulation Rapture and it's seen in many places in scripture.

But here's one thing that's never been explained to my satisfaction.

Luk 21:36  Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. [emphasis mine]

Taken in context to whom Jesus is talking to, I'm wondering what this verse is telling us?

Anyone? Anyone?

Some people give this verse for the pretribulation rapture of the Church but could it be for those in the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation? In regards to the Antichrist?

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