Some encouraging Scriptures about the rapture

[Diaste]

16 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

No, we the Church, have been grafted into the Vine which is Jesus Christ.  The Olive tree is not Israel, some of its branches are Israel.  If the root is holy, so are the branches.  The branches were broken off because of unbelief.  The Root (Godhead) is Holy.  All come from the Godhead.

In Christ

Montana Marv

That is in error concerning pretrib's contention Israel and the church are separate. Witness.

¹⁷ But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,  do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.¹Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. - Romans 11

 

 

[Last Daze]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Which would not violate the one limiting factor of 'day and hour'. We certainly can know within weeks or days.

" And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21

Jesus would only say this if it was near in time and space, and the Greek confirms the imminence of His appearing when the described events occur. So months or weeks or days doesn't matter. The only thing we cannot know is the 'day and hour'. We could know the day but not the hour, or the hour but not the day. Not that we will know either but that ain't the limiter, both 'day and hour' together is.

True.  Day or hour is a very short time frame.  It's quite possible that the day can be calculated without being known, something akin to cloudy nights when trying to observe the moon's phase.  When the ability to measure time is altered, it's easy to lose track.  When the sun, moon, and stars don't shine like normal, that can create some issues when it comes to tracking time.

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

True.  Day or hour is a very short time frame.  It's quite possible that the day can be calculated without being known, something akin to cloudy nights when trying to observe the moon's phase.  When the ability to measure time is altered, it's easy to lose track.  When the sun, moon, and stars don't shine like normal, that can create some issues when it comes to tracking time.

Interesting. I have thought the day and hour thing just means 'moment', not a literal day and hour. Even though by our reckoning of time it would happen at a literal day, hour, minute.

In any case it cannot be a main tenet of a particular doctrine that says we could just count and therefore the doctrine has validity, and the others do not. ?

 

[Last Daze]

18 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Interesting. I have thought the day and hour thing just means 'moment', not a literal day and hour. Even though by our reckoning of time it would happen at a literal day, hour, minute.

In any case it cannot be a main tenet of a particular doctrine that says we could just count and therefore the doctrine has validity, and the others do not. ?

 

Not to mention that the man of sin will make changes in times (probably a new calendar based on him).

Calculating the day/hour and knowing the day/hour are not the same thing, kind of like how theory is not the same as practice.  We will only have a general idea based on the signs.  That's why we are exhorted to persevere and endure.

[Diaste]

14 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Not to mention that the man of sin will make changes in times (probably a new calendar based on him).

Calculating the day/hour and knowing the day/hour are not the same thing, kind of like how theory is not the same as practice.  We will only have a general idea based on the signs.  That's why we are exhorted to persevere and endure.

I thought that's what you were referring to. At least it's what popped into my head, the man of sin changing times. 

But its true what you say, Luke 21 tells us to look up when prophecies come to pass, not at the change of seasons or the turn of the calendar. 

[Montana Marv]

12 hours ago, Diaste said:

That is in error concerning pretrib's contention Israel and the church are separate. Witness.

¹⁷ But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,  do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.¹Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. - Romans 11

 

 

Not in error at all.  It is the Truth.  What was the Promise from God to Abraham, Issac and Jacob.  1.  A People, physical descendants of Jacob. (Israel).  2.  A Land, that land  divided after the Jews crossed the Jordan River,  (the present Land of Israel plus maybe a lot, lot more).  3.  A Blessing (Jesus Christ)

Israel is not the Church and never will be.  Remember Physical descendants.

Now some of the branches were broken off:  What does that imply?  There are other branches which were not pulled out;  Who are they?  Not the Church, not Israel...  Who...

In Christ

Montana Marv
 

Edited July 13, 2019 by Montana Marv
spelling

[Diaste]

7 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Not in error at all.  It is the Truth.  What was the Promise from God to Abraham, Issac and Jacob.  1.  A People, physical descendants of Jacob. (Israel).  2.  A Land, that land  divided after the Jews crossed the Jordan River,  (the present Land of Israel plus maybe a lot, lot more).  3.  A Blessing (Jesus Christ)

Israel is not the Church and never will be.  Remember Physical descendants.

Now some of the branches were broken off:  What does that imply?  There are other branches which were not pulled out;  Who are they?  Not the Church, not Israel...  Who...

In Christ

Montana Marv
 

There is the nation of Israel and there is the seed of Abraham. As Paul said, "Not all who are of Israel are Israel."

The nation of Israel gets confused with true Israel. And I suppose if the two groups in the eyes of the Lord, those who believe and those who believe not, were to be sectioned then we would have in the group of those who believe spiritual Israel and natural Israel. In as much as natural Israel will receive of the promises concerning the land and the nation, immutable promises in which natural Israel believes even as they have rejected Christ. But those in Christ are spiritual Israel, the descendants of Jacob and the descendants of our father Abraham.

So then we would have the physical descendants of Israel and the spiritual descendants of Israel. Paul said:

"You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise." - Gal 3

So when you say Israel is not the church you are right and wrong at the same time. The nation of Israel has rejected salvation in Christ and seeks an earthly messiah. Spiritual Israel is the seed of Abraham and heirs of the promises of God and all who are in Christ are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

This, "There are other branches which were not pulled out;  Who are they?  Not the Church, not Israel...  Who..." is answered in light of Romans 11

" But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,  do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. - Romans 11"

The branches that were not pulled out are spiritual Israel, the branches with which we now share in the promises. If we were grafted in among the branches that were not broken off, then we are living from the same nourishment which comes from the root, which is Christ. If we were grafted in then we are growing on the very same tree as the natural branches which is spiritual Israel, the seed of Abraham. So the branches that were not broken off and the branches that were grafted in are the same. Just think, if that natural olive tree did not exist then there would be no tree with which to graft unnatural branches.

How is it the 'church' can be separate from spiritual Israel when the 'church' is on the same tree and feeding off the same root?

 

 

 

 

 

[Spock]

On 7/6/2019 at 1:55 PM, Diaste said:

I know you're convinced of a pretrib rapture, sister in Christ.

It's not coming. Get ready for to be here till the end.

We shall see my brother in Christ.....we shall see. You know I am putting my bet on one of these two rapture theories:

1. Pre trib

2. Mid trib

No money is being place on Post trib......sorry!  Whether you like it or not, you will probably not see the abomination of desolation.  But have no worry,  It will be okay.......

[Diaste]

9 minutes ago, Spock said:

We shall see my brother in Christ.....we shall see. You know I am putting my bet on one of these two rapture theories:

1. Pre trib

2. Mid trib

No money is being place on Post trib......sorry!  Whether you like it or not, you will probably not see the abomination of desolation.  But have no worry,  It will be okay.......

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to

escape (I flee out, away, escape; with an acc: I escape something.)

all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. - Luke 21

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will

keep (I keep, guard, observe, watch over.)

thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. - Rev 3

Nothing here suggests a forcible abduction and removal from one place to another dimension. 

Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ  AND OUR GATHERING TOGETHER TO HIM, that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you,

 the apostasy comes first, (Apostasy,  defection, revolt)

and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. - 2 Thess 2

No gathering until a revolt and the A of D.

 

[Mary8]

11 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Not in error at all.  It is the Truth.  What was the Promise from God to Abraham, Issac and Jacob.  1.  A People, physical descendants of Jacob. (Israel).  2.  A Land, that land  divided after the Jews crossed the Jordan River,  (the present Land of Israel plus maybe a lot, lot more).  3.  A Blessing (Jesus Christ)

Israel is not the Church and never will be.  Remember Physical descendants.

Now some of the branches were broken off:  What does that imply?  There are other branches which were not pulled out;  Who are they?  Not the Church, not Israel...  Who...

In Christ

Montana Marv
 

Genesis 17:7   And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Genesis 17:8  And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Genesis 48:4  And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession.

God's plans and promises are so wonderful.  

Romans 1:16  For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 11:1   I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.