Will there be a per-trib rapture

[Unfailing Presence]

Only the Pre-tribulation rapture is in harmony with the Word Of Jesus , saying it will come when no one thinks it will , and will have no warning .  

The post-trib   all hands on deck , rapture commencement , complete with an official sounding of the rapture countdown clock , ringing of the bell , etc,etc,etc, & etc  is as 

feeble  a theory as could be concocted with no traceable connection to the Words of this Jesus who is the Christ who said it would take people just as much by surprise as the flood

took the people by surprise in Noah's day .

It is amazing to me just how much Of Jesus's teaching has to be jettisoned by the post-trib crowd  to try and swallow the post-trib  camel . 

[simplejeff]

Notice,  no one on earth missed the flood - everyone saw it !

Same , as written, when Jesus returns - everyone will see it happen !  

Sorry, pre-trib just has no wings to fly.... no word to be true.... no substance in Christ Jesus at all.

Proof?  Motive ?   See Corrie ten Boom's PROOF decades ago,  and WARNING , in line with Scripture, why pre-trib is so abominable today,  ruining the faith of multitudes of unfaithful believers.

[Unfailing Presence]

25 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Notice,  no one on earth missed the flood - everyone saw it !

 

Everyone  " saw it "  ?

Really ?

Kind of hard not to see , as  you are taking the water into your lungs don't you think ?

 No better example of how many of Jesus's words must be jettisoned in order to swallow the post-trib camel .

Flood waters and all . 

[ScottA]

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

ScottA.....you said.....  there is no "when" with God......

My answer:

From Genesis to Revelation, the bible is all about prophecy. Do you agree?

So isn't prophecy all about 'when'?

For example.....When the disciples asked Jesus in Mathew 24...."Tell us, WHEN shall these things be".........

Now here is a great place for Jesus to tell them..... " Ok guys, listen up. I AM is all you need. There is no WHEN with God....."

Jesus is all about 'WHEN"....listen to the words He uses in His answer to them. They are all (in answer to)...'WHEN"

                                            .....For then......then shall....WHEN ye therefore shall see....shall be preached....and then shall appear....shall pass away..." etc

These all imply...."WHEN"

ScottA......you said......" we wrongly apply all our interpretations to either "yesterday", "today", or the future ....."

The article in reference clearly uses scripture to interpret scripture. I don't see any conjecture or implying. This is a biblical study article on 2Thes 2:3,

the author is Nelson Walters.

From the Lords own mouth, He tells us to...

Luke 21:36

Watch ye therefore, and pray always,

If there is no WHEN, then why would He tell us to...WATCH"!

I understand. But all of what you mentioned is received on a "created" timeline, which is rather a story line in the revelation of all knowledge from God to men. As Jesus said to His disciples, "I have many more things to tell you, but you cannot bear them now." And then He qualifies the revelation timeline process as finishing, not by word, but by the Holy Spirit. 

So, first, what is written does not address "when" but addresses the timing of revelations of what occurred before the foundation of the world - before time. 

Prophecy, then is merely a form of God confirming His own revelations, as opposed to what other things we may hear.

Thus, I would encourage you not to "seek a sign" as did the "evil generation" which Jesus spoke the things you quoted. But rather to "seek God and His righteousness", which is timeless. And this I say, that you should avoid falling into the traps set for the unrighteous. But also, because "knowledge has been increased" and you are attempting to prove what is of the spirit with what is of the word, which is not the end that Jesus prescribed, but rather the other way around, that we be lead into all truth by the Holy Spirit. If you do this backwards, it will not end well...which is the strong delusion many are given over to, because they did not hear the truth from Jesus to receive the end of all knowledge from the Holy Spirit, but believed the lie that was imposed upon all language at the tower of Babel (including scripture) to confound the ungodly.

Edited February 7, 2018 by ScottA

[brakelite]

Pre-trib rapture teaches that those in Christ will be removed from the scene leaving the unsaved to their fate. What everyone missed is that Noah and his family were witnesses to God's judgement. So also was Israel witnesses to the plagues that fell upon Egypt. But both Israel and Noah were protected because they were "in Christ". They were separated and sanctified by God, yet were witnesses to God's justice.Jesus said that the tares shall be first bundled up to be burnt, then the wheat gathered up into the barn. This was in response to the questions of the labourers in the field whether the enemy's plants should be uprooted. No, Jesus said, leave them all to grow together until they all mature. Why is that? Because by their fruits ye shall know them. This goes for the angels as well whose work it is to gather up the harvest. The coming crisis will  not be a developer of character, it will be a revelation of character, and for that revelation to be effective during the harvest, all must continue to grow together till the end. 

As to the first post, I was following along quite nicely until he got to the part where he described the antichrist entering the temple after 3 and 1/2 years into the tribulation. I have to admit and confess, that I get quite frustrated and angry with the devil (not the writers or believers of these theories) that he has so effectively confused the issue as far as antichrist is concerned. So so many have bought into the lie of a future individual entering a Jewish temple during a 7 year tribulation. It is ALL A LIE folks. It is nonsense.  You are deceived. 

Yes, there is a crisis coming the magnitude of which we cannot imagine. But nowhere in scripture does it suggest a 7 year duration. That is a Jesuit hoax. A Jesuit lie bough hook line and sinker by Protestants. The antichrist is already in the temple of God. (Any future Jewish temple will NEVER be the temple of God). The temple of God is US!. It is His church. And the antichrist is among us NOW! Has been for nearly 2000 years, not long after Paul wrote to the Thessalonians warning them of his impending arrival. That apostasy spoken of in the OP, and the revealing of the true antichrist taking place at the same time, has already taken place. Elsewhere Paul spoke of the one who was 'restraining' the antichrist. Guess what. He was removed in the 4th century. It was pagan Rome that was removed when Constantine went to Costantinople. That removal of the restrainer made way for the growth of worldliness in the church...and their lust for power led to a falling away which resulted in the papacy...the antichrist. All the reformers knew this. This is the one thing they all agreed on. And to turn their accusations away from Rome,the Jesuits invented a whole new way of interpreting prophecy. Futurism. A 7 year tribulation...a future individual antichrist... a future "peace treaty after a 3 and 1/2 year... a pre-trib rapture....and all of it disguises the identity of the real threat which is all around you right now waiting his opportunity to take your head off as he did during the dark ages to all who disagreed with him. And nearly all the world is now "wondering after the beast" and ready to place him on the global one world religion throne ...the church whore ruling the state....the woman riding the beast. For yours and your childrens sake, ask God to open your eyes.

[Daniel 11:36]

Pre-trib rapture teaches that those in Christ will be removed from the scene leaving the unsaved to their fate. What everyone missed is that Noah and his family were witnesses to God's judgement"

"I have to admit and confess, that I get quite frustrated and angry with the devil (not the writers or believers of these theories) that he has so effectively confused the issue as far as antichrist is concerned. So so many have bought into the lie of a future individual entering a Jewish temple during a 7 year tribulation. It is ALL A LIE folks. It is nonsense.  You are deceived."

 

 And so will immoral Christians be witnesses to the coming tribulation period .... don't forget this

And a future individual called the antichrist will attack Israel at the middle of the period .... the Bible says so

Your ideas are wrong and you may be suggesting an off guarded theology  

Edited February 8, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[Unfailing Presence]

40 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

 What everyone missed is that Noah and his family were witnesses to God's judgement"

You understanding of scripture , and the basic English comprehension is lacking . 

Firstly Noah was lifted ABOVE THE EARTH  thus Jesus's connecting Noah's separating " ABOVE THE EARTH "  to the calling up of the raptured above the earth :

 

                                                    " ....and bare up the ark , and it was LIFT UP ABOVE THE EARTH. "  ( Genesis 7 : 17 ) 

 

Secondly " Noah and his family "   being lifted   "ABOVE  THE EARTH " , and separated by God Himself  were not  " witnesses" to anything  on the earth .

They saw nothing . 

God sealed them away from the earth and any view of it until Forty days had been completed :

                                                     

                                                                 " ....at the END of forty days , that Noah OPENED THE WINDOW of the ark ..."   ( Genesis 8 : 6 ) 

 

The ark being completely sealed by the hand of God for 40 days  to any witnessing of judgement or  of anything else . 

So says the Word of God . 

 

Once again we have the very familiar  scenario of the  post-trib crowd running headlong in the solid  rock wall of God's Word in their purposelessness , while the pre-trib 

position is in complete prophetic concord with the Word of this Jesus who is the Christ .

 

 

 

 

                                                                               

[missmuffet]

10 hours ago, Rick_Parker said:

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There will be a pre-Trib Rapture.

If we take Scripture literally for what God intended we can not miss a pre-trib rapture interpretation.

[Sister]

10 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Only the Pre-tribulation rapture is in harmony with the Word Of Jesus , saying it will come when no one thinks it will , and will have no warning .  

The post-trib   all hands on deck , rapture commencement , complete with an official sounding of the rapture countdown clock , ringing of the bell , etc,etc,etc, & etc  is as 

feeble  a theory as could be concocted with no traceable connection to the Words of this Jesus who is the Christ who said it would take people just as much by surprise as the flood

took the people by surprise in Noah's day .

It is amazing to me just how much Of Jesus's teaching has to be jettisoned by the post-trib crowd  to try and swallow the post-trib  camel . 

Unfailing Presence

I don't understand what's so hard to accept?

End time prophecy warning to all end time saints;

 Revelation 13:15   And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

  Revelation 13:16   And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

  Revelation 13:17   And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
 

That's the warning!  No man can buy or sell unless he has the mark of the beast.

This means cannot buy food to eat.  So what do we do?  Starve?, accept it?....read on next chapter and listen to the angels very strong warning.

 

 
  Revelation 14:9   And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

  Revelation 14:10   The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

 

 Revelation 14:11   And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
 

Isn't that clear?  Whoever worships the beast or his image, and receives his Mark, Christian or non Christian will receive God's wrath.

.....and to clarify even further;

  Revelation 14:12   Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Does it appear that the saints won't be here?  What do you think?  Why do the saints need patience during this time?  How are they going to stand out?  Go with the flow or say NO?

Why would we want to be punished with the ungodly? 

This is not something that we made up.  It's written in ink to warn us.  This is coming upon the whole world, and the saints have to make a decision and realise that our faith is going to be tried. 

If we preach against this, and not preparing the brethren for the most important decision they will ever make in their life, then we are not in harmony with the scriptures, but against.  That would make us anti-Christ,...against the Word of God when we should be sounding the trumpet and hearing what the angel of the Lord says.

 

 

 

[Sister]

  Revelation 18:4   And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.