WHAT IS THE FALLING AWAY

Daniel 11:36 · February 17, 2018

"The Tribulation is the same time period described in Daniel's seven years (which God shortened for the sake of the elect to approximately 3 1/2), and all Christians will go through it. The pre-tribulation rapture is a myth"

Think what you want, but the pre-tribulation "rapture" is not a myth son .... you need to study your Bible

Or maybe you are just a false teacher with specific design

Edited February 17, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

OneLight · February 17, 2018

12 hours ago, Sister said:

Ok, I can put it like this;

(a) The master, he is the one who lets the dog go into the pool, and will let him continue doing so until such and such a day, "then" the pool will be clean, and all will know who made it dirty.

(b) The master, he is the one who restrains the dog from going into the pool, and will continue restraining him until such and such a day, "then the pool will be dirty, and no one will know who made it dirty.

To me two different meanings. One is to allow, and the other is to hold back. The pool has been getting dirty and no one knows why.

(a) says he the dog was always allowed in the pool, but until a certain day he will not be allowed. On that day everyone will know who made the pool dirty.

(b) says the dog was never allowed in the pool, for he was restrained, held back, but until a certain day he will be allowed, and no one will know who made it dirty.

KJV 2 Thess 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

^{NKJV 2 Thess 2:7}For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He^[d] who now restrains will do so until He^[e] is taken out of the way.

This verse is speaking about "the mystery of lawlessness". It's not a mystery to us who know, for God has revealed good and evil to us, and we know who is behind this evil,...but the world who is fooled and in darkness don't know about this mystery, and God has not revealed it to them ...yet....because they refuse to come to him to find out. On that day when the world is punished, and this wickedness revealed, by the brightness of his Coming, God will reveal to them, the world, who made their waters dirty. What they have been drinking has been fowled, has made them sick, and now they must pay the price. Even, the Son of Perdition will be revealed, how he played his part, and who he really served. Until all this happens, it will continue, this mystery of evil.

That would work if "letteth" meant to let, as we know the language today. The old usage of the word "letteth" meant to restrain, as I provided you in my previous post. How people spoke in the 1600's is not how we speak today, so we cannot fully understand the meaning in their speech unless you know how words were used and what they meant.

God is holding Satan back from doing all he can do until it becomes his time to do so. Whether one says He letteth or He restrains, it makes no difference if you know the meaning of both words.

Sister · February 17, 2018

9 hours ago, simplejeff said:

What do you mean "at the highest level" ? - on the forums, or in the box churches ?

On the forums simplejeff. I wish I didn't say this, or you ask me, because now I have to explain.

Those without Christ, atheists, pagans, witches, and those sitting on the fence, all of them whom I've come accross in my life and preached to, have had a certain decency, and politeness about them towards me,... able to discuss and listen, voice their opinion about how they perceive God, or don't perceive etc, but some Christians, not all, on these forums, having heard the truth, and knowing about the most basic requirements about how we ought to show love and respect for each other, even if we don't agree, can accuse, demean one another, showing absolute hatred and bitterness with their spiteful words, vexes my spirit to no end, just witnessing such a thing. They are without excuse because they know this behaviour does not make one a saint, but a hypocrite, and their punishment will be worse if un repented on. God hates the hypocrite, and those who bring his name shame. Some of the things I see displayed, is out of the pit, as if Satan has entered them. They think they are doing God and the other listeners a special service, but only doing service to the other master. This is worse, than those who don't know the Lord in my opinion. Instead of their spirit conforming to Christ's spirit, it takes a turn for the other. We are responsible for much, because we have been given so much. I understand that sometimes we lose our tempers, but that spirit in us, if it is holy, should afterwards feel regret, and sorrow, and be very afraid of the Lord on how we conduct ourselves privately, and openly. No apologies to the one they've hurt, accused and mocked, no making the slate clean again, and others are liking their behaviour. If their conscience has not been killed off already, it will soon for God hates the proud but gives grace to the humble. Satan did this amongst the holy angels, caused strife and accuses the brethren constantly. This is something God hates very much in his own house, and judgement starts in his own house first. This is why I think it is evil at it's highest, because it is attacking those who pray and cry to the same God, and he sees all things and will not remain silent forever.

Sister · February 17, 2018

35 minutes ago, OneLight said:

That would work if "letteth" meant to let, as we know the language today. The old usage of the word "letteth" meant to restrain, as I provided you in my previous post. How people spoke in the 1600's is not how we speak today, so we cannot fully understand the meaning in their speech unless you know how words were used and what they meant.

God is holding Satan back from doing all he can do until it becomes his time to do so. Whether one says He letteth or He restrains, it makes no difference if you know the meaning of both words.

Thanks, I will think on it a little more.

simplejeff · February 17, 2018

34 minutes ago, Sister said:

On the forums simplejeff. I wish I didn't say this, or you ask me, because now I have to explain.

GOOD ! It is the TRUTH that sets people free, and only the TRUTH , in CHRIST JESUS, as written in SCRIPTURE and confirmed by His Spirit and His Voice as the SHEPHERD of the sheep.

Some of what you posted is true, and yet not all of it, but that is okay, as it is difficult to do.

You are partly right, and I believe partly wrong also, but only in the sense now that

everything must be tested, no matter who says it or where (even as the Apostles always said ; and remembering the Bereans obviously) ....

There is too much 'mixed' in the post to answer at this point. Perhaps in other threads some of the points have already been answered or addressed anyway ?

I asked if you meant the forums or outside the forums because evil is in the highest places throughout society, our battle is with spiritual forces in high places as written in Scripture, including as written "judgment begins in the house of God".... i.e. as Jesus' and teh Apostle's battle was with the religious leaders / doctrines/ practices in the Temple and synagogues where men were teaching and living lives opposed to YHVH and contrary to His Word.

Sister · February 17, 2018

On 2/16/2018 at 11:21 PM, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

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The falling away/apostasy is happening now. We're in the midst of it, and many of us are fulfilling this sign and don't realize it or believe it.

Yes I can see it.

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(The Laodiceans didn't realize their spiritual condition or peril either.)

Jesus said that a wicked and adulterous generation doesn't recognize the signs of the times. The Jews before us didn't recognize the signs of their times--- even though they knew the Scriptures---and neither do many of us. The state of Christianity now parallels the state of Judaism then: The spiritually adulterous Jews didn't need (or want) God to do Judaism their own way; and spiritually adulterous Christians don't need (or want) Him to do Christianity their own way. There's a saying that people who don't learn their history are doomed to repeat it. (We know what happened to the temple of the Jews.)

I see so many parallels also, I agree. Nothing new under the sun.

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The falling away is the falling away from the faith (Christianity) of true Christians, who have fallen away by their rebellion: They do not keep the commands of the faith that was once for all delivered to us, as they know they ought to, or do the will of God as He has made it known to them and convicted them---if they even seek to know it in the first place. Just like Jesus said to the churches at Ephesus and Sardis in the Revelation, partial obedience to what we know to do and have been commanded is not acceptable. (Yet many Christians foolishly believe that it is. They're about to find out otherwise.)

Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

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There is a teaching which I believe is called 'the perseverance of the saints' which I believe is a Calvinist doctrine (not sure about either of these things), which essentially teaches that all of God's elect will be overcomers/conquerors during the Tribulation, that true Christians cannot fall away from Christ, and that anyone who does this (anyone who does fall away from the Lord, by any means, including by taking the mark of the beast) was never really saved to begin with.

Once and for all, let it be known that this teaching, and the teaching of Once-Saved-Always-Saved which accompanies it, are false.

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

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Election determines who will be saved. It does not guarantee what an individual will do with his or her free will after coming to be in Christ. Some will choose to remain in Him, others will not. God doesn't force Christians to obey Him and to remain in His love; He gives us the choice to do so. But there are consequences for choosing not to. Just because God has not appointed us to suffer His wrath in the lake of fire, does not mean that we can't choose to go there. The non-elect have no choice in the matter.

2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

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Only people who actually have salvation can forfeit it. Falling away from Christ does not mean that one was never saved to begin with, or that one is a goat. A dead sheep is not a goat.

Amen.

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Both sheep and goats have been decided from eternity, and neither can become the other. Goats (children of the devil and vessels of wrath prepared for destruction) will never come to Christ because they are not His sheep (those who are appointed to be saved, vessels of mercy prepared for glory). All the unsaved who are Jesus' lost sheep will come to Him and be saved; but after being saved, they have free will to choose to be faithful to Him or not and whether to keep that gift of eternal life by their own choices.

Not all unsaved people are lost sheep. Some are lost sheep, some are goats; and some are dead sheep.

Very wise.

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The falling away of the saints from God's word (and thus, from God Himself, because they are not obeying Him), aka "the rebellion" (please note that that's "REBELLION", not "Mistake"---willful, knowledgeable sin) is not the same as the delusion that will affect the unsaved who have rejected the gospel. The rebellion concerns those who are in Christ and who have the law of Christ and are knowingly and deliberately breaking it; and the delusion concerns unsaved people who have rejected the gospel believing that the antichrist is God. They are two different things. As are professing Christians who are not actually born-again departing from the teachings of the faith, vs people who are truly born-again doing this (which they can do, and have done).

Action point (for true Christians): Obey the Lord in everything you know and make sure you have a good conscience toward Him---that you are doing His will to the best of your knowledge and ability, however His word and His Spirit have convicted you. 1 John 1:9 and James 4:6-10 are for you. Whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin (James 4:17), and God knows our hearts and considers our actions. Don't be foolish or hard-hearted to your own demise.

The time to wash your robe (if necessary) is now: Desolations are decreed by God, for His own people.

Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Sister · February 17, 2018

59 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

GOOD ! It is the TRUTH that sets people free, and only the TRUTH , in CHRIST JESUS, as written in SCRIPTURE and confirmed by His Spirit and His Voice as the SHEPHERD of the sheep.

Some of what you posted is true, and yet not all of it, but that is okay, as it is difficult to do.

You are partly right, and I believe partly wrong also, but only in the sense now that

everything must be tested, no matter who says it or where (even as the Apostles always said ; and remembering the Bereans obviously) ....

There is too much 'mixed' in the post to answer at this point. Perhaps in other threads some of the points have already been answered or addressed anyway ?

I asked if you meant the forums or outside the forums because evil is in the highest places throughout society, our battle is with spiritual forces in high places as written in Scripture, including as written "judgment begins in the house of God".... i.e. as Jesus' and teh Apostle's battle was with the religious leaders / doctrines/ practices in the Temple and synagogues where men were teaching and living lives opposed to YHVH and contrary to His Word.

Hi simplejeff

I got a little story that goes with this reply.

For the last 3 yrs, I have occasionally walked into second hand bookshops, looking for KJV's without any luck (no -ones throwing theirs out lol, holding on to it gathering cobwebs!)

...anyway yesterday, I found one. Couldn't believe it. It was even on the counter ready to be stocked and the first thing I spotted. It's huge and old, and was very cheap, $6.00, ...obviously the shop thought it was not worth much, ....and in such good condition too, looks like it's never been read, cobwebs cleaned... so I brought it and was over the moon......I thought maybe I will give it to someone ...one day...whoever wants one.

I needed 3 scriptures, and couldn't remember where they were. I have mislplaced my bible recently and can't find it. I needed a new one anyway, because it's falling apart, so I searched on line looking for these scriptures and couldn't find it. Frustrated, I remembered my new bible, ...brainwave! ...and thought this is going to be like looking for a needle in a haystack, ...I grabbed that huge book, and said Lord please help me find what I'm looking for, and Wolla I opened the book randomly and came to the exact page! On the other side of the page the 2 other scriptures were there. I didn't realise they were together. Praise the Lord, so gracious!. These are what I call little miracles that no-one else sees.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Edited February 17, 2018 by Sister
Sorry I didn't quote these to LightShinesInTheDarkness, I thought I did. I will remove.

brakelite · February 18, 2018

History is the key to tomorrow. There is nothing new under the sun. The passage in Thessalonians met its first fulfilment in the first centuries. The restrainer, pagan Rome, was removed to Constantinople which in conjunction with the reduction in persecution and a political vacuum in Rome, led to the 'falling away' through the bishops of Rome becoming political figures and those who came after them becoming more and more ambitious which finally resulted in a church/state union that began the persecutions again against those Christians such as the Waldenses and Celtic churches who refused to submit to Papal authority.

Now fast forward to today. Left wing pagan socialist/communist agendas are being swept aside in favour of more conservative politics. Right wing conservatism is becoming more radicalised in the face of Islamic fundamentalism. The two extremes, left/right...democrat/republican....conservative/liberal....are growing further and further apart due to continuing violence and provocation...the antithesis/thesis effect which will soon synthesise into whatever the powers behind the scenes envision, that is their NWO. Not a political NWO, but religious, led by Rome, finally becoming Babylon the Great. Again, to repeat history, a woman (church) riding the beast (state)...a church/state union. Once again, particularly in the US, we have clerics becoming ambitious for political power. We have a global ecumenical network, again led by Rome, that seeks to use political leverage to solve the problems of society they view as dangerous to their religious identity. Those who refuse to go along with their ideas and receive their mark/stamp of approval, will be persecuted.

iamlamad · February 19, 2018

On 2/16/2018 at 7:25 AM, Last Daze said:

No, It's actually the natural reading of the text.

The man of sin is given authority over the saints. The saints do not restrain his being revealed.

Then you must explain HOW the man of sin IS revealed in 3b. Please do: I am all ears.

iamlamad · February 19, 2018

On 2/16/2018 at 5:59 AM, Sister said:

Hi iamlamad

Can you please post your scriptures so I can take a look at that translation.

The only one that allows, or restrains anything is God.

I am trying to work out where your translation uses the word "restrain", and in what verse out of these;

2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

I think "restrains" is as good as any. Or we could say preventing the man of sin from being revealed before the proper time.

I agree that only God has the power to pull this off. But God has to use the church's authority.

Edited February 19, 2018 by iamlamad

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