Who are God's "Elect" Mentioned in Matthew 24?

[JoeCanada]

I am neither pre-trib nor post-trib........... I'm a solitary pre-wrath.

When the apostles asked Jesus ....."what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world"......(Math 24)......He gave them six signs that would precede His coming.........

Those six signs are the same as the six seals in Rev 6......

1- deception by false messiahs......... Math 24: 4-5, 23-26...............Rev 6: 1-2

2- war, bloodshed and chaos............. Math 24: 6-7............................Rev 6: 3-4

3- famine and economic collapse...... Math 24: 7................................ Rev 6: 5-6

4- abomination and death.................. Math 24: 9, 15-21.................... Rev 6: 7-8

5- Martyrdom and apostasy............... Math 24: 9-14.......................... Rev 6: 9-11

6- Celestial earthly disturbance......... Math 24: 29.............................. Rev 6: 12-17

Jesus didn't give a single sign that would FOLLOW it......( the trumpet and bowl judgments )

Jesus does NOT depict the trumpet judgments or the bowl judgments or the physical second coming in the Olivet Discourse because these events come AFTER his arrival ( his parousia ) at the Rapture.

The Olivet Discourse is the ultimate and definitive proof of rapture timing. It mutes all other rapture theories and proofs.

Jesus is still coming ( I am coming ) after the sixth bowl is poured out and prior to Armageddon. (see Rev 16:12, 15-16)

The event in Mathew 24: 30-31 occurs BEFORE the trumpet and bowl judgments........What event is it??????

Jesus has left us with only one option.......It's the rapture!

The rapture is a HARPAZO....( the greek word found in 1Thes 4:16-17)..... Harpazo means a forceful, visible and sudden rescue, and that's exactly what is depicted in Math 24: 30-31

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

Jesus does NOT depict the trumpet judgments or the bowl judgments or the physical second coming in the Olivet Discourse because these events come AFTER his arrival ( his parousia ) at the Rapture.

Or . . . the seven plagues are not a sign for believers.  Do you think that "the sign of the Son of Man" and "the Son of Man" are two different things?  If so, what do you consider to be "the sign of the Son of Man" as stated in Matt 24:30?  If not, then why are the two different descriptions used?

[JoeCanada]

The sign is going to be the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ coming in majesty.

Daniel says He will come with the clouds of heaven, Daniel 7:13.  John says He’ll come with the clouds, Revelation 1:7.  Mark says He’ll come in clouds, Mark 13:26.  Luke says in 21:27 He’ll come in a cloud, and Matthew says He comes on the clouds of heaven. Isaiah 19:1 says:  “The Lord rides on the a swift cloud.” 

The world will be in complete chaos......and dark....blackness

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

The only light will be the light from the Glory of God, the sign of the Son of man

And what is that light?  It is the sign of the Son of man in heaven coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  Unveiled majesty.......

Jesus is the light of the world......

Rev 21:23  And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

 

[Willa]

Rom 11:17  But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, Rom 11:18  do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.

Rom 11:19  Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." Rom 11:20  That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. Rom 11:21  For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.

Rom 11:22  Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

Rom 11:23  And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. Rom 11:24  For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

Rom 11:25  Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Rom 11:26  And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; Rom 11:27  "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

Rom 11:28  As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.

Rom 11:29  For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

 

[Steve Conley]

On 2/18/2018 at 11:32 AM, Daniel 11:36 said:

The elect of Matthew 24 are of Israel during the coming tribulation period

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Dan 11:36, We all have opinions. Can yours be supported by sound exegesis of the Scriptures, I think not.

Who are gathered by the angels unto Jesus?

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

How do we know that those who are gathered by the angels at the Lord’s coming (Matt. 24:29-31) are the church and not some group of saved Jews or Gentiles converted during “The Tribulation Period”? First of all, proper exegesis requires that the text communicate what is to happen. We should build our understanding of these eschatological events from the statements of Jesus, the Apostles, and Prophets, not from a system handed down to us by fallible men. 

Jesus tells us that at His appearing His elect are gathered to Him by the Angels. There is no disputing this fact. The only thing that may be disputed is who His elect are in this context. We also see that this rapture coincides with His coming at the beginning of the Day of the LORD and “the day of Christ” (2Thes 2:1-2). Because the Day of the LORD is the period of time when His fierce wrath is poured out upon the Earth dwellers, we see that these elect, who are raptured, do not experience God’s wrath poured out upon the Earth and its inhabitants.

So, the promise made that the saints are not appointed unto wrath includes these who are called “His elect.”

1Th 5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Th 5:10  Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 

It is important to note that Daniel tells us that this deliverance or physical salvation is associated with the 1st resurrection.

Dan 12:1  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Dan 12:2  And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Dan 12:3  And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 

Paul says, to the Thessalonians, that the Saints will rest from their tribulation, when Jesus is revealed with His angels, when He comes to be glorified in His saints, even be admired in all those who believe. Notice that it is church age believers that Paul is comforting by telling them they can rest when Jesus is revealed. For at that time tribulation, in the form of God’s wrath, will fall upon those who have been their persecutors.

2Th 1:6  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. 

Who are the Elect?

Concerning the identity of the elect who are gathered to Jesus by the angels in Matthew 24:31 we find that Jesus uses the word elect three times in this chapter. Since there is no change in the overall context of the chapter we believe that each occurrence refers to the same category of believers. The first use of “elect” in the chapter is found in verse 22 where Jesus says that the days of “great tribulation” are shortened for the elect's sake, or else none would be left alive.

Mat 24:22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. 

Remember the “great tribulation”, as Jesus calls it, is a unique time of intense persecution of believers by the Beast. He makes war upon the saints and physically prevails over them. We know that these elect are those who are in the “great tribulation”. In Revelation 7 we observe that a great multitude of Gentile believers will come out of “great tribulation” (Rev 7:9-17). At minimum, we are certain that this group of “elect” are not exclusively Jews. In fact, the evidence points more toward these “elect” being the church; believing Jews and Gentiles together. 

One of the reasons to conclude that this group of “elect”, which is identified by that name three times in Matthew 24, is distinct from Israel is the fact that in the moments prior to God’s wrath being poured out (Rev. 8), but after the cosmic signs of the Day of the LORD (Rev. 6:12-17), one hundred and forty-four thousand Israelites are sealed for protection from the impending trumpet and vial judgements (Rev 7:2-8). It is inferred that these Israelites remain upon the Earth. A remnant of Israel will be protected through the period of God’s wrath (the Day of the LORD) while remaining upon the Earth. 

From Rev. 12 we also know that some portion of Israel is going to flee to the wilderness and be protected there for 1260 days. 

Rev 12:6  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 

The Rev. 12 text makes it very clear that these Israelites will be protected from the Dragon and the Beast which he gives power to through the “great tribulation” which begins in the middle of the seventieth week of Daniel and also the period of God's wrath which follows it. To the contrary, the elect in Matt. 24:22 are being killed in such numbers and with such speed that the Lord must intervene to save some alive.

In the same interlude where we find the sealing of the 144,000 (Rev. 7), there is a great multitude seen in heaven praising God. These are said to be those believers from “all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues” who “came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” Many of these are the “elect” of Matthew 24:22. They are those of whom it shall be said that they “loved not their lives unto the death” (Rev 12:11) and were slain for the testimony of Jesus Christ (Rev 6:9). The rest will be the dead in Christ who are resurrected or believers who remain alive to the end of the “great tribulation” and are raptured. All three of these groups make up the first resurrection. These are the elect of Matt. 24.

The remaining use of “elect” in Matthew chapter 24, that we haven’t yet discussed, is in verse 24.

Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 

Jesus speaks of this future eschatological period as one of great deception. In His answer to the disciple’s three questions (Matt. 24:3) He warns them repeatedly not to be deceived. In verse 24 Jesus says the deception will be so great that if it were possible even the very elect would be deceived. One conclusion from this statement of Christ is that the true elect cannot be deceived by the great signs and wonders done by the Antichrist, the False Prophet, and their followers. How does this truth help us identify the “elect” in our text? 

Are there any other scriptures which may give us light concerning this special attribute of the elect, referred to here in Matthew 24? Paul in writing to the believers in Rome makes a statement which will help clear this up. 

Rom 11:25  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 

Paul to the Romans made reference to the forensic blindness that Isaiah the prophet spoke of.

Isa 29:10  For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. 

Isa 6:9  And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

Isa 6:10  Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. 

Notice that Israel in part has been made blind and this blindness shall continue until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Today, God is calling out a people, for His name, from among the Gentiles. One day that number will be full or complete. When this is true, then and only then, will blindness be removed from Israel, and all Israel shall be saved.

Since we are told that a believing Gentile multitude, that cannot be numbered, comes out of the “great tribulation” (Rev 7:9-17), the period of time in context in verse 24, it is safe to say that the fulness of the gentiles does not come at least until the “great tribulation” is over. This being true we may conclude that during the “great tribulation” Israel in part is still under the decreed blindness of God. Therefore, those of whom it is said that it is impossible for them to be deceived must be the church.

When it is understood that the “elect” Jesus speaks of in Matt. 24 must be, not only, a remnant of believing Jews but also a great number of believing Gentiles who have been graffed in (Rom 11:17), then verse 31 clearly speaks of the rapture of the church.

All praise, honour, and glory be unto Jesus Christ our Lord

Edited February 22, 2018 by Steve Conley
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[Unfailing Presence]

8 minutes ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Dan 11:36, We all have opinions. Can yours be supported by sound exegesis of the Scriptures, I think not.

Who are gathered by the angels unto Jesus?

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

How do we know that those who are gathered by the angels at the Lord’s coming (Matt. 24:29-31) are the church and not some group of saved Jews or Gentiles converted during “The Tribulation Period”? First of all, proper exegesis requires that the text communicate what is to happen. We should build our understanding of these eschatological events from the statements of Jesus, the Apostles, and Prophets, not from a system handed down to us by fallible men. 

Jesus tells us that at His appearing His elect are gathered to Him by the Angels. There is no disputing this fact. The only thing that may be disputed is who His elect are in this context. We also see that this rapture coincides with His coming at the beginning of the Day of the LORD and “the day of Christ” (2Thes 2:1-2). Because the Day of the LORD is the period of time when His fierce wrath is poured out upon the Earth dwellers, we see that these elect, who are raptured, do not experience God’s wrath poured out upon the Earth and its inhabitants.

So, the promise made that the saints are not appointed unto wrath includes these who are called “His elect.”

1Th 5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Th 5:10  Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 

It is important to note that Daniel tells us that this deliverance or physical salvation is associated with the 1st resurrection.

Dan 12:1  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Dan 12:2  And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Dan 12:3  And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 

Paul says, to the Thessalonians, that the Saints will rest from their tribulation, when Jesus is revealed with His angels, when He comes to be glorified in His saints, even be admired in all those who believe. Notice that it is church age believers that Paul is comforting by telling them they can rest when Jesus is revealed. For at that time tribulation, in the form of God’s wrath, will fall upon those who have been their persecutors.

2Th 1:6  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. 

Who are the Elect?

Concerning the identity of the elect who are gathered to Jesus by the angels in Matthew 24:31 we find that Jesus uses the word elect three times in this chapter. Since there is no change in the overall context of the chapter we believe that each occurrence refers to the same category of believers. The first use of “elect” in the chapter is found in verse 22 where Jesus says that the days of “great tribulation” are shortened for the elect's sake, or else none would be left alive.

Mat 24:22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. 

Remember the “great tribulation”, as Jesus calls it, is a unique time of intense persecution of believers by the Beast. He makes war upon the saints and physically prevails over them. We know that these elect are those who are in the “great tribulation”. In Revelation 7 we observe that a great multitude of Gentile believers will come out of “great tribulation” (Rev 7:9-17). At minimum, we are certain that this group of “elect” are not exclusively Jews. In fact, the evidence points more toward these “elect” being the church; believing Jews and Gentiles together. 

One of the reasons to conclude that this group of “elect”, which is identified by that name three times in Matthew 24, is distinct from Israel is the fact that in the moments prior to God’s wrath being poured out (Rev. 8), but after the cosmic signs of the Day of the LORD (Rev. 6:12-17), one hundred and forty-four thousand Israelites are sealed for protection from the impending trumpet and vial judgements (Rev 7:2-8). It is inferred that these Israelites remain upon the Earth. A remnant of Israel will be protected through the period of God’s wrath (the Day of the LORD) while remaining upon the Earth. 

From Rev. 12 we also know that some portion of Israel is going to flee to the wilderness and be protected there for 1260 days. 

Rev 12:6  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 

The Rev. 12 text makes it very clear that these Israelites will be protected from the Dragon and the Beast which he gives power to through the “great tribulation” which begins in the middle of the seventieth week of Daniel and also the period of God's wrath which follows it. To the contrary, the elect in Matt. 24:22 are being killed in such numbers and with such speed that the Lord must intervene to save some alive.

In the same interlude where we find the sealing of the 144,000 (Rev. 7), there is a great multitude seen in heaven praising God. These are said to be those believers from “all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues” who “came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” Many of these are the “elect” of Matthew 24:22. They are those of whom it shall be said that they “loved not their lives unto the death” (Rev 12:11) and were slain for the testimony of Jesus Christ (Rev 6:9). The rest will be the dead in Christ who are resurrected or believers who remain alive to the end of the “great tribulation” and are raptured. All three of these groups make up the first resurrection. These are the elect of Matt. 24.

The remaining use of “elect” in Matthew chapter 24, that we haven’t yet discussed, is in verse 24.

Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 

Jesus speaks of this future eschatological period as one of great deception. In His answer to the disciple’s three questions (Matt. 24:3) He warns them repeatedly not to be deceived. In verse 24 Jesus says the deception will be so great that if it were possible even the very elect would be deceived. One conclusion from this statement of Christ is that the true elect cannot be deceived by the great signs and wonders done by the Antichrist, the False Prophet, and their followers. How does this truth help us identify the “elect” in our text? 

Are there any other scriptures which may give us light concerning this special attribute of the elect, referred to here in Matthew 24? Paul in writing to the believers in Rome makes a statement which will help clear this up. 

Rom 11:25  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 

Paul to the Romans made reference to the forensic blindness that Isaiah the prophet spoke of.

Isa 29:10  For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. 

Isa 6:9  And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

Isa 6:10  Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. 

Notice that Israel in part has been made blind and this blindness shall continue until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Today, God is calling out a people, for His name, from among the Gentiles. One day that number will be full or complete. When this is true, then and only then, will blindness be removed from Israel, and all Israel shall be saved.

Since we are told that a believing Gentile multitude, that cannot be numbered, comes out of the “great tribulation” (Rev 7:9-17), the period of time in context in verse 24, it is safe to say that the fulness of the gentiles does not come at least until the “great tribulation” is over. This being true we may conclude that during the “great tribulation” Israel in part is still under the decreed blindness of God. Therefore, those of whom it is said that it is impossible for them to be deceived must be the church.

When it is understood that the “elect” Jesus speaks of in Matt. 24 must be, not only, a remnant of believing Jews but also a great number of believing Gentiles who have been graffed in (Rom 11:17), then verse 31 clearly speaks of the rapture of the church.

All praise, honour, and glory be unto Jesus Christ our Lord

Jesus in Matthew is speaking to a people fully entrenched in the worship of the " holy place " . 

These can only be Jews , as Christians never have , nor ever will have a  physical place that is to be worshiped .

[simplejeff]

6 minutes ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Jesus in Matthew is speaking to a people fully entrenched in the worship of the " holy place " . 

These can only be Jews , as Christians never have , nor ever will have a  physical place that is to be worshiped .

What about the billions of apostates throughout the world,  dead in their sins and trespasses, worshiping under a false gospel,  bowing to a false god,  and serving demons every day without any repentance ?

[simplejeff]

On 2/19/2018 at 10:58 AM, JoeCanada said:

Jesus has left us with only one option.......It's the rapture!

Actually, maybe a lot more pertinent and more important,  most people choose the other option:  PERISH (die) Just as they have for thousands of years already.

[Unfailing Presence]

32 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

40 minutes ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Jesus in Matthew is speaking to a people fully entrenched in the worship of the " holy place " . 

These can only be Jews , as Christians never have , nor ever will have a  physical place that is to be worshiped .

What about the billions of apostates throughout the world,  dead in their sins and trespasses, worshiping under a false gospel,  bowing to a false god,  and serving demons every day without any repentance

Jesus is not speaking to them in Matthew .  He is speaking to those worshiping a " holy place "  in Jerusalem , the homeland of the Jews by the way .

[Daniel 11:36]

He is speaking about Israel during the coming tribulation period

There is nothing about today's believers in Matthew 24

All of today's believers will be immortalized just before [Revelation 3:10]  

Edited February 23, 2018 by Daniel 11:36