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Dennis1209

Just How Close is the RAPTURE?

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We are to rightly divide the Scriptures by cutting them straight 

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)

[15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

The one division those opposed to pre-trib understanding is that of the tribulation of the believer:

As of now we are in tribulation by sin, the devil and the curse placed upon the world by God for it... this is what Jesus spoke of here

John 16:33 (KJV)

[33] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

1 Peter 5:8 (KJV)

[8] Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

John 15:18 (KJV)

[18] If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

[19] If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

[20] Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

[21] But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

 

now the right of division comes into fact of here

Luke 3:7 (KJV)

[7] Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

*Note this wrath is not yet here  'to come'

 

Matthew 24:21 (KJV)

[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

*Note this period is like no other time in human history up to this event Jesus spoke of

thus

This wrath to come is The Great Tribulation that is to come and is God pouring His wrath out for the rejecters of His Son

Ephesians 5:6 (KJV)

[6] Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

 

*note the wrath spoken of here, during the church age, is still not come

1 Thessalonians 1:9 (KJV)

[9] For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

 

The distinction is clearly made

Ephesians 2:3 (KJV)

[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

[4] But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

[5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (KJV)

[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

The Great Tribulation is the appointed wrath where God pours out His wrath and the elect that is there could only be for two reasons:

1. They were converted during...

2. They have added to the Scripture...

Revelation 22:18 (KJV)

[18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

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11 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Nope.  I Thess. 4:13-18/ I Cor. 15:50-53 is pre-trib.

The Context of 1 Cor 15;50-53 is the resurrection.  Read the prior verses.

 

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption

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Guest shiloh357
Just now, Brother Duke said:

The Context of 1 Cor 15;50-53 is the resurrection.  Read the prior verses.

 

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption

But coincides with the resurrection of I Thess. 4:13-18.  They are the same event.

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The Doctrine of imminence is Pre-Trib Rapture 
snip:

Imminency in the New Testament

 

The fact that Christ could return, but may not soon, at any moment, yet without the necessity of signs preceding His return, requires the kind of imminence taught by pretribulationism.

 

What New Testament passages teach this truth? Those verses stating that Christ could return at any moment, without warning and those instructing believers to wait and look for the Lord's coming teach the doctrine of imminence. Note the following New Testament passages:

  • 1 Corinthians 1:7 - "awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,"
  • 1 Corinthians 16:22 - "Maranatha."
  • Philippians 3:20 - "For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;"
  • Philippians 4:5 - "The Lord is near."
  • 1 Thessalonians 1:10 - "to wait for His Son from heaven,"
  • 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 - "For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."
  • 1 Thessalonians 5:6 - "so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober."
  • 1 Timothy 6:14 - "that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,"
  • Titus 2:13 - "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus;"
  • Hebrews 9:28 - "so Christ . . . shall appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him."
  • James 5:7-9 - "Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. . . . for the coming of the Lord is at hand. . . . behold, the Judge is standing right at the door."
  • 1 Peter 1:13 - "fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ."
  • Jude 21 - "waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life."
  • Revelation 3:11; 22:7, 12, 20 - "'I am coming quickly!'"
  • Revelation 22:17, 20 - "And the Spirit and the bride say, 'Come.' And let the one who hears say, 'Come.'" ..."He who testifies to these things says, 'Yes, I am coming quickly.' Amen. Come, Lord Jesus."

It is significant that all of the above passages relate to the rapture and speak of the Lord's coming as something that could occur at any-moment, that it is imminent. This is why believers are waiting for a person - Jesus Christ - not just an event or series of events such as those related to the tribulation leading up to Christ's second advent in which He returns to the earth and remains for His millennial reign.

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1 minute ago, shiloh357 said:

But coincides with the resurrection of I Thess. 4:13-18.  They are the same event.

But those scriptures say nothing about it happening pre-trib. The pre-trib part is what you are adding.

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2 minutes ago, ENOCH2010 said:

But those scriptures say nothing about it happening pre-trib. The pre-trib part is what you are adding.

The appearing of the Lord in those Scriptures does not at all match the description of the 2nd coming of Jesus in Revelation 19.  So they are not same event as the Return of Jesus in Rev. 19.

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3 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

The appearing of the Lord in those Scriptures does not at all match the description of the 2nd coming of Jesus in Revelation 19.  So they are not same event as the Return of Jesus in Rev. 19.

Most likely 1 thess 4:13-18 falls right in the middle or just before  Rev 19.

 

9Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”

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1 hour ago, ENOCH2010 said:

But those scriptures say nothing about it happening pre-trib. The pre-trib part is what you are adding.

sure they are … mid and post are not imminent but dated... amills  are just no where.

Edited by enoob57

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9 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

sure they so … mid and post are not imminent but dated... amills  are just no where.

That is the point the Post-Tribs are trying to show.  All the scripture about the resurrection/rapture is dated nullifying the pre-trib position. 

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Understand this .... the Lord is always present and He knows what is going on all of the time

And He will execute His actions as He sees fit .... and when He is ready

This stuff about the Lord coming and going is of no credit

He is here now and everywhere at the same time .... you just cannot see Him

So do not tell that He comes and goes .... He is all consuming

Those who are stuck in various ideas related to His actions are fooling themselves with man made theologies 

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    • By Steve Conley
      Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,
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