Just How Close is the RAPTURE?

[Steve Conley]

18 hours ago, george747 said:

Dennis.

This is a great post and its very encouraging. Thank you for sharing it. 

Greetings to all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Indeed the Lord has left us with enough revelation to know the times and seasons of Christ's return, that is if you are watching.

1Th 5:1  But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

The times and seasons that we can know is the day of the Lord. The day of the Lord will come upon the unbelieving world like a thief and they shall not escape.

1Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

But we who know Christ and are watching will not be caught by surprise by the day of the Lord.

1Th 5:4  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5  Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

We will be spiritually awake and alert, unlike the lost world. We are watching because Christ told us what to watch for.

1Th 5:6  Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7  For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

While sudden destruction awaits them, our expectation at Christ's arrival upon the day of the Lord is salvation.

1Th 5:8  But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

We, who are Christ's, are not appointed unto the wrath of God upon the day of the Lord, but we shall be raptured to be with Him before the wrath falls.

1Th 5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10  Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Those who have been persecuting us who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord will be tribulated by God.

2Th 1:6  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

When Christ is revealed from heaven with the mighty angels we will rest from those who persecuted us.

2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

At that time Christ's wrath will be felt by our persecutors who believed not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

The day of Christ (or the day of the Lord) which is the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him will not be near in time until the falling away (apostasia = departure from the faith, many shall be offended Matt 24:9-10) that Jesus spoke of taking place following the beginning of the unprecedented persecution (great tribulation) initiated by the Beast standing in the temple shewing himself to be God.

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Paul had communicated these eschatological truths to them when in Thessalonica.

2Th 2:5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Now they know what is keeping Christ's coming and our gathering together unto Him from being near in time (at hand).

2Th 2:6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Even though the mystery of iniquity is already at work, it will continue to be restrained until Michael stands aside in the middle of the week

2Th 2:7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

When Michael stands aside, the Beast, who is given power by Satan, will be revealed, but his end is to be destroyed.

2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Indeed we are seeing indications that we are in the final years before Christ's parousia (arrival and continuing presence). However, that means that we should see the covenant confirmed, the Temple rebuilt, the sacrifices and offering instituted, conquest, war, famine, and earthquakes, the defiling of the Temple by the Beast which stops the sacrifice and offering, unprecedented persecution, and the falling away. When we have seen these we can know that Christ could come any day. However, His arrival will be portended by a notable cosmic sign which will indicate to those of us who are alive and remain that our redemption is nigh (could happen any minute).

Glory to Jesus Christ the Lord

[JoeCanada]

1 hour ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings to all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Indeed the Lord has left us with enough revelation to know the times and seasons of Christ's return, that is if you are watching.

1Th 5:1  But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

The times and seasons that we can know is the day of the Lord. The day of the Lord will come upon the unbelieving world like a thief and they shall not escape.

1Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

But we who know Christ and are watching will not be caught by surprise by the day of the Lord.

1Th 5:4  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5  Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

We will be spiritually awake and alert, unlike the lost world. We are watching because Christ told us what to watch for.

1Th 5:6  Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7  For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

While sudden destruction awaits them, our expectation at Christ's arrival upon the day of the Lord is salvation.

1Th 5:8  But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

We, who are Christ's, are not appointed unto the wrath of God upon the day of the Lord, but we shall be raptured to be with Him before the wrath falls.

1Th 5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10  Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Those who have been persecuting us who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord will be tribulated by God.

2Th 1:6  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

When Christ is revealed from heaven with the mighty angels we will rest from those who persecuted us.

2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

At that time Christ's wrath will be felt by our persecutors who believed not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

The day of Christ (or the day of the Lord) which is the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him will not be near in time until the falling away (apostasia = departure from the faith, many shall be offended Matt 24:9-10) that Jesus spoke of taking place following the beginning of the unprecedented persecution (great tribulation) initiated by the Beast standing in the temple shewing himself to be God.

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Paul had communicated these eschatological truths to them when in Thessalonica.

2Th 2:5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Now they know what is keeping Christ's coming and our gathering together unto Him from being near in time (at hand).

2Th 2:6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Even though the mystery of iniquity is already at work, it will continue to be restrained until Michael stands aside in the middle of the week

2Th 2:7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

When Michael stands aside, the Beast, who is given power by Satan, will be revealed, but his end is to be destroyed.

2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Indeed we are seeing indications that we are in the final years before Christ's parousia (arrival and continuing presence). However, that means that we should see the covenant confirmed, the Temple rebuilt, the sacrifices and offering instituted, conquest, war, famine, and earthquakes, the defiling of the Temple by the Beast which stops the sacrifice and offering, unprecedented persecution, and the falling away. When we have seen these we can know that Christ could come any day. However, His arrival will be portended by a notable cosmic sign which will indicate to those of us who are alive and remain that our redemption is nigh (could happen any minute).

Glory to Jesus Christ the Lord

Hi Steve...

Great article. 

In 2Peter 3:10, we see this confirmation....

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up

Then in 2Peter 3:11-12, he further adds....

Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! (2 Pet. 3:11-12)

So Peter is equating  the Day of the Lord and the Day of God, telling us they are one and the same. The same events happen in both cases.

This is just one more proof for a same day rapture and fiery judgment, and same day rapture and start of the Day of the Lord

[iamlamad]

22 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Steve...

Great article. 

In 2Peter 3:10, we see this confirmation....

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up

Then in 2Peter 3:11-12, he further adds....

Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! (2 Pet. 3:11-12)

So Peter is equating  the Day of the Lord and the Day of God, telling us they are one and the same. The same events happen in both cases.

This is just one more proof for a same day rapture and fiery judgment, and same day rapture and start of the Day of the Lord

While sudden destruction awaits them, our expectation at Christ's arrival upon the day of the Lord is salvation.

WRONG! Paul tells us this scenario BEGINS with His coming. 

1. His coming

2. The dead fly up out of their graves

3. This raising of the dead will start a great earthquke

4. Those who are alive and in Christ feel the ground begin to shake, but are caught up.

5. Paul then tells us this sudden destruction is the start of the Day and of His wrath. 

You see, His coming will TRIGGER the dead rising, 

and the dead rising will trigger the start of the DAY. 

I AGREE with you on "same day rapture" but the rapture will TRIGGER the day.  The DAY starts with destruction as many old Testament verses tell us. 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings to all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Indeed the Lord has left us with enough revelation to know the times and seasons of Christ's return, that is if you are watching.

1Th 5:1  But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

The times and seasons that we can know is the day of the Lord. The day of the Lord will come upon the unbelieving world like a thief and they shall not escape.

1Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

But we who know Christ and are watching will not be caught by surprise by the day of the Lord.

1Th 5:4  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5  Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

We will be spiritually awake and alert, unlike the lost world. We are watching because Christ told us what to watch for.

1Th 5:6  Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7  For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

While sudden destruction awaits them, our expectation at Christ's arrival upon the day of the Lord is salvation.

1Th 5:8  But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

We, who are Christ's, are not appointed unto the wrath of God upon the day of the Lord, but we shall be raptured to be with Him before the wrath falls.

1Th 5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10  Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Those who have been persecuting us who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord will be tribulated by God.

2Th 1:6  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

When Christ is revealed from heaven with the mighty angels we will rest from those who persecuted us.

2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

At that time Christ's wrath will be felt by our persecutors who believed not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

The day of Christ (or the day of the Lord) which is the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him will not be near in time until the falling away (apostasia = departure from the faith, many shall be offended Matt 24:9-10) that Jesus spoke of taking place following the beginning of the unprecedented persecution (great tribulation) initiated by the Beast standing in the temple shewing himself to be God.

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Paul had communicated these eschatological truths to them when in Thessalonica.

2Th 2:5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Now they know what is keeping Christ's coming and our gathering together unto Him from being near in time (at hand).

2Th 2:6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Even though the mystery of iniquity is already at work, it will continue to be restrained until Michael stands aside in the middle of the week

2Th 2:7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

When Michael stands aside, the Beast, who is given power by Satan, will be revealed, but his end is to be destroyed.

2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Indeed we are seeing indications that we are in the final years before Christ's parousia (arrival and continuing presence). However, that means that we should see the covenant confirmed, the Temple rebuilt, the sacrifices and offering instituted, conquest, war, famine, and earthquakes, the defiling of the Temple by the Beast which stops the sacrifice and offering, unprecedented persecution, and the falling away. When we have seen these we can know that Christ could come any day. However, His arrival will be portended by a notable cosmic sign which will indicate to those of us who are alive and remain that our redemption is nigh (could happen any minute).

Glory to Jesus Christ the Lord

While sudden destruction awaits them, our expectation at Christ's arrival upon the day of the Lord is salvation.

You have this backwards! He comes, it is not yet THE DAY. The dead in Christ rise. It is not yet THE DAY. Those alive in Christ rise - and it is STILL not "THE DAY." 

But a moment after the church is headed up into the sky to meet the Lord in the air, THEN, Paul tells us, God's wrath and THE DAY starts. Always remember, THE DAY starts with darkness and destruction, NOT a rapture. 

So He comes pretrib FOR His saints, and then THE DAY starts.

7 plus years later, He comes WITH His saints to the Battle. -

[Steve Conley]

On 9/27/2018 at 11:15 PM, iamlamad said:

While sudden destruction awaits them, our expectation at Christ's arrival upon the day of the Lord is salvation.

You have this backwards! He comes, it is not yet THE DAY. The dead in Christ rise. It is not yet THE DAY. Those alive in Christ rise - and it is STILL not "THE DAY." 

But a moment after the church is headed up into the sky to meet the Lord in the air, THEN, Paul tells us, God's wrath and THE DAY starts. Always remember, THE DAY starts with darkness and destruction, NOT a rapture. 

So He comes pretrib FOR His saints, and then THE DAY starts.

7 plus years later, He comes WITH His saints to the Battle. -

Greetings to all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Mr. mad, αἰφνίδιος (aiphnidios), the word translated "sudden" in 1 Thes 5:3, doesn't mean "in a moment", it means "unexpected." It is also found in Luke 21:34 where it is translated "unawares." This truth should cause a slight modification in your eschatological narrative.

The only thing that takes place in a moment (atom, the smallest unit of time in the Koine Greek era) is the change of our mortal body to immortal.

The day of the Lord begins with Christ's arrival at which time we are raptured. Then later the same day the first trumpet judgement falls upon the earth-dwellers.

Glory to Jesus Christ

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings to all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Mr. mad, αἰφνίδιος (aiphnidios), the word translated "sudden" in 1 Thes 5:3, doesn't mean "in a moment", it means "unexpected." It is also found in Luke 21:34 where it is translated "unawares." This truth should cause a slight modification in your eschatological narrative.

The only thing that takes place in a moment (atom, the smallest unit of time in the Koine Greek era) is the change of our mortal body to immortal.

The day of the Lord begins with Christ's arrival at which time we are raptured. Then later the same day the first trumpet judgement falls upon the earth-dwellers.

Glory to Jesus Christ

Prove by scripture that the day of the Lord begins with His arrival......if you can.

In Paul's use, it can be either suddenly, or unawares -  or both. The truth is, when we are talking miliseconds or nanoseconds, "suddenly" hardly fits. How long after the dead in Christ rise, before those who are alive arise? We don't know because John has not told us, but it is going to be a very short period of time. 

Is there going to be a warning before the dead in Christ suddenly (there is that word again) fly up out of their graves? No, no warning. It is going to happen at an unexpected time - when people are saying "peace and safety." If we study Matthew 27 when Jesus arose, it also raised some of the Old Testament saints - I believe the 24 elders. When God brought the particles that once made up those bodies together to once again form their fleshly body, it caused a great earthquake. 

When God brings together the particles of the dead in Christ, found around the world, it is going to cause a worldwide earthquake. This earthquake, also the same one found at the 6th seal, will be Paul's sudden destruction. It will be sudden because it will instantly hit, with no warning when the dead in Christ are raised.  Paul was not wrong in his choice of words. It will be unexpected as any big earthquake is. 

Paul's point though, is that THE DAY and His wrath begins with that earthquake, NOT with His coming.  According to many Old Testament verses, THE DAY is a dark day and a day of destruction. How can you get a rapture out of that? The truth is, the rapture event triggers THE DAY. 

THE proper chronology from scripture is:

HE COMES -> The dead rise -> Those alive are changed -> The DAY and His wrath begins.

We are changed and caught up the very moment the ground begins to shake. 

If we are caught up are the last trump of the feast of trumpets - and I believe that is true - there will be ten days of awe before the 7th seal officially opens the 70th week so the trumpets can begin.

Edited September 29, 2018 by iamlamad

[enoob57]

The study can not be one of conclusion but of increase in understanding and again got questions does this https://www.gotquestions.org/day-of-the-Lord.html 

[Steve Conley]

10 hours ago, enoob57 said:

The study can not be one of conclusion but of increase in understanding and again got questions does this https://www.gotquestions.org/day-of-the-Lord.html 

Greetings to all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

I have found that gotquestions can be a great resource for many things associated with the Scriptures. However, my past experience with gotquestions was that they were only interested in presenting eschatology from a pretribulational perspective. They had a few things to say about the pre-wrath model, but it was from people who were very deficient in their understanding of it. When contacted they didn't seem interested in correcting their errors.

Glory to Jesus Christ

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings to all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

I have found that gotquestions can be a great resource for many things associated with the Scriptures. However, my past experience with gotquestions was that they were only interested in presenting eschatology from a pretribulational perspective. They had a few things to say about the pre-wrath model, but it was from people who were very deficient in their understanding of it. When contacted they didn't seem interested in correcting their errors.

Glory to Jesus Christ

good hermeneutics lead to a pre trib view...

[ENOCH2010]

13 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

As close as the 7 years Peace Deal between Israel-Arab or as we now know it as the 2 states solution.

The Bible doesn't say anything about Israel giving away any of it's land.