Purgatory?

[KiwiChristian]

If purgatory is true then the 'catholic' Christ didn't accomplish anything on the cross, wasted his time and died for nothing. The 'catholic' Christ should have hired a pro instead of doing the job himself. The Christ of Christianity is the Pro. He got the job on the cross done right the first time. And.....He did it for free!

Purgatory is a man-made money-making thing invented by the unbiblical rcc. Heb 1:3 "When He had by Himself PURGED OUR SINS.". Rom 8:1 "There is therefor now NO CONDEMNATION to them that are in Christ Jesus.". Psalms 49:7 "None of them can redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him.". Dont forget Prov 10:12 which never mentions purgatory.  Acts 4:12 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Listen, we are PURGED OF OUR SINS ( not some, ALL ) by the blood of Jesus Christ. Heb 1:3, Rom 8:1 and John 5:24. Remember "there is no more condemnation when Jesus passed over our sins and paid the ultimate penalty for us." Why didnt the apostles ever discuss purgatory? 2 Cor 5:8 There is no mention of purgatory here. In Luke 16:19-31, Jesus reveals there is a great gulf between hell and paradise that people cannot pass from one to the other. Catholics defend purgatory by quoting the uninspired 2 Mac 12:40-46 where a "sin offering" is offered for dead soldiers who had committed the sin of idolatry. This not only contradicts the Bible, but also catholic teaching, because idolatry is a "mortal sin" that would confine a person to hell. An ex-nun said the only purgatory that exists is the priests' pockets.

[Justin Adams]

There are many RC problems. Every time they have mass it is a re-Crucifixion etc.

I know of some RC people that do not tow the party line, to them, unless called to stay, I think leaving that communion would be beneficial to them.

[simplejeff]

5 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

I think leaving that communion would be beneficial to them.

Why would leaving that be beneficial to them, when remaining in it is an abomination to God ?

/r (rhetorical)?

[TheBride123]

All the denominations are in for a rude awakening, not just the RCC either. The fall of many kings and their thrones will rest upon the Woman of Rev.12. Not all things are what they seem, all denominations today which follow or come after the Harlot are the result of the Harlot. They are the offspring of her adulteries. After the fall of Babylon( which the Harlot rides on the back of) all present day denominations will cease to be , the Hallelujah will commence, Rev.19. Blessed are those who are called to the Wedding feast of the Lamb! "Heaven and EARTH will pass away but MY Words shall always remain". As for purgatory if you are going to address it, address it with the knowledge of scripture. Why do some denominations believe in purgatory, and not just the RCC does either, that which predates the RCC do too, that which man calls Orthodox. Can you tell me why, and what scriptures they use to base their beliefs? I know the answer, but perhaps you can elaborate? All these denominations predate what you represent, you who has the reputation of being ALIVE but are dead, whose works are not complete before the Father of my Lord.HMM? 

Those denominations have become lazy or have stopped in their pursuit in Wisdom, they have in some cases removed their stand from upon the Word, they have many shortcomings, but so do those which have a reputation for being ALIVE but are dead. HMM? Those of the mind frame of "RED ONES" are missing a precious gem. If you know the name and remember, Yeshua will remember your name to His Father? Another words, you are hypocrites pointing your fingers at other denominations and not even hearing what the Spirit is saying to all churches. What is the Spirit saying to you and yours? Once everyone of this time gets it right, they are His Words, not a denomination but a member of the body of Christ, called out of denominations which all hold falsehoods. Think about it, if you stand solely upon the Word who can claim authority over you? Does your denomination or Christ? Are sure your denomination is 100% right? If proven it is 100% right , by all means cast out the beam from an other's eye. If Not the Word will condemn you. So, prove the lie of purgatory, remember research the scriptures which other denominations use to support this belief. Keep in mind, scripture will not implode on itself, for a house divided can not stand. Scripture against scripture makes no sense but true understanding of it does.  The foundation has been laid.

1 CORINTHIANS 3:11-13

Christ Our Foundation
…11For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work.…

2 Timothy 3:16-17

¹⁶ All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, ¹⁷ that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The Word is profitable for doctrine, so is this doctrine of purgatory supported by scripture, when you answer, I will. If the doctrine of PURGATORY is gold, silver or precious stone it will stand if wood , hay or straw it will be revealed with fire, that fire the HOLY SPIRIT. Is this the DAY?

One final note and reiteration:

Yeshua can not be ensnared by a denomination, He is the foundation. I do not believe any one denomination holds all truth in regard to doctrines. But the Word, the foundation proves what is true in each of them. I am non denominational, I test all that which precedes me I do not believe in anything that can not be support by scripture.

1Corinthians3:10-13

10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

 

I test ALL BUILT according to the foundation -scripture. It will determine what will and will not stand upon the foundation.

AGAIN:

2 Timothy 3:16-17

 

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,  17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

AGAIN:

Scripture is profitable for doctrine, doctrine is what man builds upon the foundation. Some doctrine is gold, silver and precious stone and will not burn, but the wood, hay and stubble will.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by TheBride123

[Justin Adams]

18 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Why would leaving that be beneficial to them, when remaining in it is an abomination to God ?

/r (rhetorical)?

Entreaties, kindness and gentleness. Who am I? A nobody unless Yahweh says otherwise.

Too many tread the dangerous path to the LEAVEN while railing on their fellow believers.

Once you pass from light into darkness, your words come back three-fold to condemn with the same measure you mete out.

In humility and caution we are to instruct our brothers and sisters. How do we know their path and their trials? There is a spirit of condemnation at large waiting to gobble us up. Stay clear of the leaven of men.

Walk in mercy and justice and humility says Micah.

[Billiards Ball]

On 3/8/2018 at 5:43 AM, Justin Adams said:

Entreaties, kindness and gentleness. Who am I? A nobody unless Yahweh says otherwise.

Too many tread the dangerous path to the LEAVEN while railing on their fellow believers.

Once you pass from light into darkness, your words come back three-fold to condemn with the same measure you mete out.

In humility and caution we are to instruct our brothers and sisters. How do we know their path and their trials? There is a spirit of condemnation at large waiting to gobble us up. Stay clear of the leaven of men.

Walk in mercy and justice and humility says Micah.

Thank you for your note of concern.

When speaking directly with Roman Catholics, I emphasize one difference only, and recommend all on this thread do the same. The gospel of Christ as opposed to the gospel of works. A Catholic who trusts Christ for salvation is then directed by me to Word study--they'll see the true light!

This will help keep us from condemning or from missing what Jesus Christ wants us to do.

[tigger398]

Sorry but I don't think purgatory is biblical. It sounds kinda like reincarnation and that is also not biblical. 

[ejected]

I think organized religion is purgatory. If you can survive that and still make heaven, that would be quite the accomplishment! 

[Patrick Miron]

On 3/7/2018 at 5:44 AM, KiwiChristian said:

If purgatory is true then the 'catholic' Christ didn't accomplish anything on the cross, wasted his time and died for nothing. The 'catholic' Christ should have hired a pro instead of doing the job himself. The Christ of Christianity is the Pro. He got the job on the cross done right the first time. And.....He did it for free!

Purgatory is a man-made money-making thing invented by the unbiblical rcc. Heb 1:3 "When He had by Himself PURGED OUR SINS.". Rom 8:1 "There is therefor now NO CONDEMNATION to them that are in Christ Jesus.". Psalms 49:7 "None of them can redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him.". Dont forget Prov 10:12 which never mentions purgatory.  Acts 4:12 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Listen, we are PURGED OF OUR SINS ( not some, ALL ) by the blood of Jesus Christ. Heb 1:3, Rom 8:1 and John 5:24. Remember "there is no more condemnation when Jesus passed over our sins and paid the ultimate penalty for us." Why didnt the apostles ever discuss purgatory? 2 Cor 5:8 There is no mention of purgatory here. In Luke 16:19-31, Jesus reveals there is a great gulf between hell and paradise that people cannot pass from one to the other. Catholics defend purgatory by quoting the uninspired 2 Mac 12:40-46 where a "sin offering" is offered for dead soldiers who had committed the sin of idolatry. This not only contradicts the Bible, but also catholic teaching, because idolatry is a "mortal sin" that would confine a person to hell. An ex-nun said the only purgatory that exists is the priests' pockets.

 My new friend,

IF as you claim in your last paragraph is true; WHY THEN is John 20:19-23 in the Bible?  PLEASE explain yourself.

Purgatory- Myth or Fact?

Let’s first look at a few other terms that are common today, but which don’t appear in the bible: Which is by the way, a Catholic Book.

 Catholic

Protestant

Communion

Eucharist

Theology

Sacraments

Pope

Mass

Doctrine

Pastor

Sinners Prayer & Altar calls

 And even the term “bible” are not found in Holy Writ. The Bible is a Catholic book, and the Catholic Church is a living, growing, and expanding entity.

 Mt. 16:18-19 “Binding and Loosening.”

Mt. 16:18-19 “And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, {singular; also implying only One set of Faith beliefs}and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”

The terms “binding and loosening” are terms of unlimited Powers and authority of Governance, and were commonly used and understood at that time and place. Thus the church is empowered to create terms and definitions. John 17: 18-21 prove this quite clearly.

Christ in choosing Peter to be the New Leader of this New Faith / Church was following OT tradition of always choosing One Man to lead His one chosen people. Noah. Abram, The Judges, Kings like David, and Prophets like Isaiah. Christ empowered Peter and the Apostles with His Own Godly Power and Authority. Cf. “As the Father sent Me, so TOO I send YOU.” Jn. 17:18

Mt. 28:18-20 “And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”

PURGATORY. “The place or condition in which the souls of the just are purified after death and before they can enter heaven. They may be purified of the guilt of their venial sins, as in this life, by an act of contrition deriving from charity and performed with the help of grace. This sorrow does not, however, affect the punishment for sins, because in the next world there is no longer any possibility of merit. The souls are certainly purified by atoning for the temporal punishments due to sin by their willing acceptance of suffering imposed by God. The sufferings in purgatory are not the same for all, but proportioned to each person's degree of sinfulness. Moreover, these sufferings can be lessened in duration and intensity through the prayers and good works of the faithful on earth… FROM Father Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary

Reasons for wrong understanding:

1.      Unable to more-fully understand God’s Divine Nature, unbelievers fail to recognize the extent of God’s fervent Desire to be in a Personal Relationship with man, who alone can choose to [OR NOT TO], Know, Love, serve, Obey and Worship Him, as He commands. And how this affects Gods Judgment. Isaiah 43: 7 & 21

Mt. 13: 10-12 “And his disciples {Apostles} came and said to him: Why speakest thou to them in parables? Who answered and said to them: Because to you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven: but to them it is not given. For he that hath, to him shall be given, and he shall abound: but he that hath not, from him shall be taken away that also which he hath”

2.  Because there is BUT One God; who logically can have ONLY One set of faith believes, who choose only One people in the OT … Jesus following this example; Founded Only One Church. Lev. 26:15; Mt. 16:18-19; Mt. 28:16-20

3 Not being able to understand Purgatory flows directly from one’s inability to understand

a.  God s Divine Nature Isaiah 55:6-10

b.  God’s Bible 2^nd. Pet. 1:16-21 & 3: 14-17c] Nature of sin itself. 1 Jn. 1:8-10; 1 Jn.5:16-17; Jn.20:19-23

c. The nature of sin itself

 4 Purgatory makes possible for Millions of souls [perhaps even Billions?] that otherwise are not perfect; but only "very good.”[yet die without unconfessed or unforiven Mortal sins, to in time, attain the Beatific Vision. John 5:16-17

 5.  BECAUSE God is perfect he can accept nothing less than a Perfect [or an after-death perfected] Soul in His Presence.

Matt.5: 4” You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect”

6 Also missed is the fact that Purgatories necessity by overlooking that all sin has a secondary nature, what the Church terms a “public nature” /a "Temporal Punishment that all sin incur,”

because all sin hurts others besides the sinner. ... God accepting only Perfect Souls insist that this debt be repaid in full prior to entry into heaven, and this debt exist even AFTER the sin has been sacramentally forgiven John 20:19-23 

 The amount of repayment due to “Temporal Punishment”, which all sin incur as well as our attempts to repay it while still on earth are concealed as Christ alone knows the amount of the debt, and the amount of credit He will accept and apply to this debt by our prayers, charity, and Indulgences. The Church exercising her Authority John 17: 18 & john 20:21, Matthew 16:18-19 offers us the opportunity to MERIT Indulgences that have the Power to wipe clean part of, or even conditionally all this debt completely until we sin again.

 7. The last issue is the Bible itself, and what it does teach on Purgatory.

 Lev.22: 21 “And when any one offers a sacrifice of peace offerings to the LORD, to fulfill a vow or as a freewill offering, from the herd or from the flock, to be accepted it must be perfect; there shall be no blemish in it.

 Rev. 21: 27 “But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor anyone who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.”

 Mt. 5: 26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

 Matt.5: 48 “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

 Heb. 2: 10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.

1 Cor. 3: 13-14 “each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done if the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.  If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, [Purgatory] though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

I suggest that we might think of Purgatory as a Sort of “Soul-Wash” that can perfect Souls who die in God’s Grace, but still have a debt caused by sin’s Temporal Punishment to repay. Only Souls that are perfect; or that can be made-Perfect after death through Purgatory can enter into the Beatific Vision. If you’d care for more info please let me know.

[Fidei Defensor]

The closest thing to Purgatory was Sheol (Abraham’s Bosom) which did exist but Christ harrowed it and emptied it (Acts 2:24, Ephesians 4:9, 1 Peter 3:19-20, Hebrews 2:9, 14-15). 

Roman Catholic base their Purgatory on deutercanonical books and according to the forward to Dante’s Purgatorio, “Purgatory is place of purgation for Christians who didn’t purge the seven deadly sins in this life and so they go through purifying of these sins to be ready for heaven.” This is not Scriptural and demeans Christ’s sacrifice on the cross: to quote Paul, “if you believe you can be saved by the works of the law, you are cut off from Christ, you have fallen from grace,” (Galatians 5:4), And, “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” (Hebrews 9:27).