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The Olivet Discourse

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Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

This chapter is not all about the Jews, nor is it given to the Jews, it is given to the followers of Jesus Christ. Here is a quick exposition of Jesus answer through verse 31.

Now let's take a look at that text again. First notice that this is the second longest discourse of Christ recorded in the Gospels. It takes place within a few days prior to His crucifixion. Within that same period Jesus told these same disciples (and us) "I will come again and receive you unto myself". The discourse was addressed initially to four of His disciples who were with Him on the Mount of Olives. But we know it was also intended for us the readers of Matthew's account because Vs 15 says "whoso readeth, let him understand".

The four asked Him a question with three parts. "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming (parousia), and of the end of the world (aeon)?" The first refers to the timing of the destruction of the Temple which took place in 70 AD. The second and third are answered together, because Christ's coming effectively ends the present world (aion = age). They asked Jesus to tell them of the sign that would portend His return, that is His parousia, His second coming. In verse 4 Jesus begins to answer their questions. (Only Luke records Christ's answer to the first one concerning the destruction of the Temple). Lets look at what He says concerning the sign of His parousia.

Remember He is answering "what shall be the sign of thy coming". Therefore what He has to say is in the context of that future day.

First He warns that there will be deceivers in that day, and false Christs.

     Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
     Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

He speaks of a time of conquest, war, famine, pestilences, and earthquakes that He calls the beginning of sorrows. He lets us know that these are not the end of the age. It is important to recognize that these conditions closely correspond to what John sees at the opening of the first three seals.

     Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
     Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
     Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

He goes on to say that next there would be violent persecution upon followers of Jesus Christ for Christ's name sake.

     Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Because of this persecution many will be offended, that is fall away. Just like those who were represented by the stony ground which gladly received the Word but were offended when persecution came along, so these also will fall away.

     Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

 

At that time many false prophets shall contribute to the falling away by their deception

     Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
     Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

However, He says that those who survive to the end of the persecution and the end of the age, will be saved (delivered Dan 12:1, raptured)

     Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Then He says, the gospel shall be preached throughout the world before the end comes. It is interesting that the Great commission which was given to the founding members of the church and continues to be the responsibility of the church today, closes with these words "...lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Jesus said He would be with us in the making of disciples and in the teaching of those disciples, all things whatsoever He taught. He said he would be with us unto the end of the world (aeon). The disciples understood that His coming would inaugurate a new (aeon), the present would end at that point. We continue in Gospel ministry until the second coming of Christ.

      Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Jesus now gives further details concerning the persecution He began to speak of in verse 9. We know this by the use of "therefore" in verse 15. He says the unprecedented persecution begins when the rebuilt temple is defiled (abomination of desolation) in the middle of the week by the revelation of the man of sin (the Beast). He says to the inhabitants of Judaea that when they see that happen to flee. Most prophetic statements of the Scripture are centered around Jerusalem in Judaea, so we would expect Christ's warnings to be centered there. However, Rev 13 makes it clear that this persecution will be world-wide.

Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Jesus further describes the severity and scope of this persecution saying that it is unprecedented.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

He says that it is so violent that it will threaten to extinguish every believer form off the earth. To save some of the elect alive upon the earth He says those days are cut short. We should note that this is the first use of the word elect in the account. We see that it is the elect who are being killed in the unparalleled persecution. Remember from verse 9, those that are being persecuted, are persecuted for the name of Christ. These elect are not unbelieving Israel, they are us, the saints of God, the church.

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

Again Jesus warns of false Christs, and the lying wonders that they will use to deceive those who profess Christ. He says the deception will be so great that if it were possible even the true believer would be deceived. This is the second use of elect in the text. Here Jesus implies that the true elect cannot be deceived by the signs and wonders done by the false prophet. However, unbelieving Israel is still in blindness because the fullness of the Gentiles is not yet come in. Rev 7:9-17 describes an innumerable multitude of primarily gentiles that came out of great tribulation. These are said to be saved just as we are, in the blood of the Lamb. If God is still calling out a people for His name from among the Gentiles during the great tribulation than Israel still remains forensically blinded (Rom 11:25). Therefore, the elect, who cannot be deceived, must be the Church.

Mat 24:23  Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The age-old adage is, “to be forewarned is to be forearmed”. With these warnings Christ has armed us against deception, specifically that deception related to His arrival at His parousia. He says that His coming (parousia) will be unmistakable, as unmistakable as the smell of the dead to carrion eating birds.

Mat 24:25  Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28  For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Jesus then tells us what event signals that the unprecedented persecution is over. It is an identifiable cosmic sign, the very sign that Joel and other prophets said would precede the day of the Lord. Following the cosmic sign the whole world will see the wonder of Christ in heaven as He comes with His holy angels. They will mourn in fear, having been caught unawares, like a thief in the night catches the unsuspecting home dweller. He will then send His angels to gather His elect, the persecuted, to Him in the clouds.

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Hallelujah

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8 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

It was not until after the Resurrection that they truly Believed. 

No, Daniel 11:36 is right, when he said "A very specific time and place is given, for a specific group of people, Israel. This is the difference Marv".  That is your defense here. You will never convince me that the disciples had a head knowledge only until the resurrection. 

For instance, if you go here - Luke 22:31-32 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. - then I'm going to debate the meaning of the word converted. And on and on we go. 

I see salvation by grace through faith in Christ as a constant from Adam to the end. The Old Testament saints believed looking forward to Christ and we believe looking back.  The disciples believed looking forward to the cross just like all the other OT saints, except the disciples actually walked with Him. 

So go with Daniel 11:36's advice. That is your strongest argument, in my opinion.

 

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52 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

All given to Israel son .... come back when you get this

The church was instituted later

I started a topic asking why it is important to know when the church started.  I see why by your answer. You see the church beginning at Pentecost, am I right? And that is critical to the whole separation of Israel from the Church doctrine. 

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1 hour ago, JoeChan82 said:

No, Daniel 11:36 is right, when he said "A very specific time and place is given, for a specific group of people, Israel. This is the difference Marv".  That is your defense here. You will never convince me that the disciples had a head knowledge only until the resurrection. 

For instance, if you go here - Luke 22:31-32 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. - then I'm going to debate the meaning of the word converted. And on and on we go. 

I see salvation by grace through faith in Christ as a constant from Adam to the end. The Old Testament saints believed looking forward to Christ and we believe looking back.  The disciples believed looking forward to the cross just like all the other OT saints, except the disciples actually walked with Him. 

So go with Daniel 11:36's advice. That is your strongest argument, in my opinion.

 

When did Timothy truly believe, he walked with Jesus for over 3 years.  John 20:25 - Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe So again, when did Timothy believe?  Pre resurrection, or Post resurrection.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

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10 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

When did Timothy truly believe, he walked with Jesus for over 3 years.  John 20:25 - Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe So again, when did Timothy believe?  Pre resurrection, or Post resurrection.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

I think you mean Thomas. :)

 

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58 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

When did Timothy truly believe

I'm telling you, this is fruitless. Mary didn't recognize Him at the tomb, the two on the road to Emmaus didn't recognize Him on the road, Peter and John didn't recognize Him while fishing, and Thomas didn't recognize Him until he examined His wounds. As soon as they recognized Him they all worshipped. But all the disciples left their livelihoods and families to follow Jesus before he was crucified and resurrected. Sure, they thought He was going to restore the kingdom. When I got saved, I didn't know much. The more I learn, the more I am amazed at the power and love of God, but I truly believed the very moment of my salvation despite all my ignorance.  Please me when I say that I am not trying to give you a hard time. We just disagree on this point. I read your entire posts and I think about what you say. I really appreciate the challenges you offer. I also realize that my last answer to you sounded belittling. I am sorry for that.

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"I started a topic asking why it is important to know when the church started.  I see why by your answer. You see the church beginning at Pentecost, am I right? And that is critical to the whole separation of Israel from the Church doctrine"

 

Correct

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I hid some snide remarks in this thread.  This is the ONLY WARNING that will be given in this thread.  Don't do it again or you'll find yourself out of this discussion.  :)

For those who didn't get a chance to read my thread on disagreeing in love when talking about prophecy -- now would be a good time to do so.

 

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3 hours ago, George said:

I hid some snide remarks in this thread.  This is the ONLY WARNING that will be given in this thread.  Don't do it again or you'll find yourself out of this discussion.  :)

For those who didn't get a chance to read my thread on disagreeing in love when talking about prophecy -- now would be a good time to do so.

 

Point well taken :) Brother of mine!!!

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Posted (edited)
On 6/14/2018 at 3:42 AM, n2thelight said:

Just want someone anyone to show me,why,where and how,this chapter is just for the Jew's.

 

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

The teaching that says this chapter is just for the Jews is not from God. Jesus gave the Olivet Discourse to His disciples whom He had been preparing to be part of the foundation of the Church. The teaching that this is for the Jews prevents many from benefiting from the warnings and instruction that Christ gave concerning His parousia and the events which precede it. There is so much that can be learned from what Christ said to the four on the Mount of Olives. Here is another observation from the Olivet Discourse.

If any desire to have a firm footing for their eschatological understanding they must from the text of Matt 24 derive what great tribulation is. From that text or any other, it cannot be shown to be the wrath of God. Jesus makes it rather clear what "great tribulation" is in Matt 24, if one will simply observe the time-related words and the connecting adverbs, like "therefore".

 

Mat 24:3  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? (Note that the context of Christ's answer is the end of the age, the time period of His parousia)
Mat 24:4  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6  And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8  All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9   Then (following the beginning of sorrows) shall they deliver you up to be afflicted (thlipsis), and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10  And then (during this persecution) shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then (when the gospel has been preached in all the world) shall the end come.
Mat 24:15  When (the timing of the defiling of the temple spoken of by Daniel) ye therefore (refers back to the persecution that follows the beginning of sorrows) shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16  Then (at the defiling of the temple, the abomination of desolation, which begins unprecedented persecution) let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21  For then (at the defiling of the temple) shall be great tribulation (thlipsis), such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23  Then (during this unprecedented persecution) if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25  Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26  Wherefore (because of false Christs) if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28  For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29  Immediately after (at once, following the unprecedented persecution) the tribulation (thlipsis) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then (subsequent to the cosmic sign) shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then (at the appearing of Christ) shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

I hope this helps all to see that great tribulation is the unprecedented persecution of the elect and Israel and not the wrath of God poured out upon the day of the Lord.

 

Hallelujah

Edited by Steve Conley
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