The timing of the 6th seal

[Last Daze]

19 minutes ago, Diaste said:

It's down to 85% now. Used to be 99.9%!

Progress!

[Heb 13:8]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Not true. Like every word is not true. There is no pretrib 'rapture'.

Consider the word harpazo in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5. The child is caught up before Satan falls to earth.

[Heb 13:8]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

There's no escape except for in Jesus.

Luk 21:36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”

[Larry 2]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

There is no pretrib 'rapture'. A nonsense concept as nothing in scripture suggests such a thing; even the word 'rapture' does not exist in scripture.

Hi Brother Diaste. I'll bite, and attempt to understand your opinion on this. Would the expression "Caught Up" used in 1 Thes 4:17 better fit what occurs in the Church's deliverance to Jesus' presence in heaven? I'll have more as we proceed if that's alright.  Thanks.

Blessings in Christ Jesus. 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Larry 2

[Heb 13:8]

17 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

The 6th seal is at the very beginning of the coming tribulation period 

Ok, so you believe the seals are non-chronological

14 hours ago, Traveler said:

The rapture does happen in the sixth seal but before that comes the persecution of the fifth seal.

I believe the rapture is pre-trib, 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 4-5, Rev 12:5. I don't believe the sixth seal is at rapture, it's rather an event that the middle of the 70th week has begun.

[Heb 13:8]

MID-TRIB

Rev 6:12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,

Rev 11:13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

[Daniel 11:36]

"No timing in either verse. No timing, no pre trib 'rapture'.

Of course pretrib doctrine ignores clear examples of timing that place the one and only gathering after the revealing of the beast, which occurs at the mid point, and that of Jesus gathering all believers at His 2nd coming, well after the mid point.

Again, made up term, made up concept, made up event. There's no escape except for in Jesus."

 

You are wrong son .... totally wrong

 

Maybe you will get it, maybe you won't

 

It sounds to me like you have made up your own story

 

The dead in Christ will not be made immortal until they are raised and those that are alive at the time

will be made immortal with them

 

This is a future event that will take place for both at the same time in a flash at the last trumpet for today's church .... then the 70th week will begin for Israel

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I'm not sure that that bodes well for pretrib since "wide is the path . . "  Just because an idea is popular doesn't make it right.

Since Christendom is only 2 Billion of the 7 Billion world population I would say that means "Narrow is the path" is therefore automatically of a truth. The road would be narrow, not wide which you are trying to indicate, which is a nonsensical way of trying to win a point to be honest, nevertheless you are wrong on that also.

Being in the 10 to 15 percent category  means being in the "Fringe on most everything", I mean David Koresh was fringe, as was Jim Jones. I can't think of one fringe idea I have at all that the vast majority of Christendom is not in agreement with me on via most every basic tenet of Christianity, of course Prophecy is a different subject, most people are not called unto Prophecy and don't understand it very well at all.

 

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

No timing in either verse. No timing, no pre trib 'rapture'.

Of course pretrib doctrine ignores clear examples of timing that place the one and only gathering after the revealing of the beast, which occurs at the mid point, and that of Jesus gathering all believers at His 2nd coming, well after the mid point.

Again, made up term, made up concept, made up event. There's no escape except for in Jesus.

No, you just choose to believe what you want to believe, the Church DEPARTS then the Man of Sin is revealed. Rev. 19 says we are in Heave, THEN RETURN. There are people that fall for scams every day. You will find out when you get to heaven you were duped here brother. 

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Consider the word harpazo in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5. The child is caught up before Satan falls to earth.

It's not that there isn't an harpazo, it's the timing. A pretrib moment just does not exist for the gathering of the saints. Especially since the only gathering of the saints we see in all of scripture is always associated with the coming of the Lord, the cosmic signs, the last trump, Jerusalem surrounded by armies, and after apostasy and the revealing of the beast, etc. This shows clear timing of the gathering at very near the end and only after GT, as Jesus said in Matt 24.

Yes, the child was caught up. That's not the church, that's Jesus. Can't use that one as it's not the gathering of the saints.

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, Larry 2 said:

Hi Brother Diaste. I'll bite, and attempt to understand your opinion on this. Would the expression "Caught Up" used in 1 Thes 4:17 better fit what occurs in the Church's deliverance to Jesus' presence in heaven? I'll have more as we proceed if that's alright.  Thanks.

Blessings in Christ Jesus. 

Um, not sure what you mean. We are 'caught up' and we meet Jesus in the clouds in the air and are with Him immediately. Do you have scripture that says we are delivered to heaven to Jesus' presence in the context of caught up at the time of the gathering of the saints?