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iamlamad

SIGNS in the Sun and Moon

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18 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

That is VERY easy to explain: that is when God raises the Old Testament saints  - on the last day - as Jesus said several times. Many of these will be people from before the flood. It is going to cause an incredible earthquake!

 So why is this: 

*[[Rev 16:18]] KJV* And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

A resurrection and this isn't? 

*[[Rev 11:19]] KJV* And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The PuP 

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I don't have time to wade through all of the replies to see if someone has already made this point. Too busy today.

But to answer your basic question: yes, two different events are being spoken of.

Matt. 24, Rev. 6, Is. 2, Heb. 12:18ff. and similar passages refer to the great signs in the heavens manifesting at the Coming of the Lord in the clouds, to call up the elect of His church to heavenly Mount Zion in the Rapture.

This event was foreshadowed in type when the Israelites came to Mount Sinai, and the LORD descended to the top of the mountain immediately following the shaking and dark clouds and fire, etc. He then called up His chosen onto the Mount. My 4-part blog posts "...And Every Eye Shall See Him" thoroughly explains these parallel events. Go here to read the parallels: 

“…and every eye will see Him…” Part 1

 

Now, the similar and yet different heavenly signs found in Joel 2, Ezek. 39, and Zech. 14 take place at the time of the great invasion of Israel in the Last Days, which occurs well after the Rapture. These unusual heavenly signs, and the personal intervention of God in earthly warfare, accompanied by great stones from heaven, were foreshadowed by the very similar events that took place on "Joshua's long day."  Joshua 10  Explained in summary here:

The Three Earthquakes of Revelation

 

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About signs on the Sun and Moon, allowt me to express how I interpret these signs. But right now I think my interpretation is very different from anything that has been written in this topic so far, although I have not read all the posts that have been posted.


Firstly, I remember that the material things are figures of spiritual things, the parables of JESUS are a great example.  In this tópic, the material things are the Sun and the Moon. 

Paul the Apostle wrote to the Church of Corinthians, saying: (1Cor.2:v.10-11):
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Having said this, here goes how I interpret the prophetic messages of signs on the Son and Moon:

I see that the word Sun is not aplied in the creation in Genesis 1. But I am sure that the Sun already existed, but it is not cited in Genesis 1 physically. 

Now see, the own Scriptures reveal: 
Psalms 84:v.11- For the Lord God is a Sun. . . 
Ecclesiastes 12:1-2:  1 Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, . . . 2 While the Sun, or the light, or the Moon, or the stars, be not darkened, ...
Malchi 4:v.2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.


By the quoted verses we see and understand that God is a Sun, by the way, God is Light. God is the Sun of righteousness. God is Spirit. God is invisible. But we must understand that God is a title, so who is Him? Well, God is the Word. The Word is God. The Word is light. Let this Light penetrate, let this light penetrate you through JESUS. He said:  I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. JESUS is the Greater Light - Gen.1:v.16 - JESUS is the Sun of righteousness. God said: But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

Even the own Lord JESUS revealed : Rev. 12:v.1-2 & 5: 
1   And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the Sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2  And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
5  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

The woman clothed with the Sun signifies that the woman is clothed with the Light of JESUS, and JESUS said that the woman being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And the woman brought forth a man child.   This revelation of JESUS is very very profound, and JESUS reveals the name of the man child in the same chapter, who will rule all nations with a rod of iron. Actually, this man Judges and makes war, as is written in the verses 7 to 12.

JESUS said: . . . the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light  . . .

God is a Sun, JESUS is the Sun of righteousness, so how to undestand that will the Sun be darkened?  I believe that the Lord God gives us an answer or explanation by His Word given to the prophet Amos, 8:v.11-12, by the way, the Word is God.

11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the Word of the Lord, and shall not find it. 

Once God will not give His light by His Word and being Him a Sun, as well as JESUS is the Sun of righteousness, certainly there will be only and only darkness upon the whole Earth, and the Moon, the Lesser Light, who is the Holy Spirit, cannot shine also.  

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On 10/16/2018 at 10:04 AM, Da Puppers said:

 So why is this: 

*[[Rev 16:18]] KJV* And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

A resurrection and this isn't? 

*[[Rev 11:19]] KJV* And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The PuP 

As I said, do you really imagine there was real hail in the throne room? No, it was prophetic! God is not going to have an "earthquake" in heaven, as it would then be a "heavenquake" - and heaven does not quake.

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4 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

As I said, do you really imagine there was real hail in the throne room? No, it was prophetic! God is not going to have an "earthquake" in heaven, as it would then be a "heavenquake" - and heaven does not quake.

 You might try paying attention to the context: 

*[[Rev 16:21]] KJV* And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

The PuP 

Edited by Da Puppers

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On 10/16/2018 at 1:08 PM, WilliamL said:

I don't have time to wade through all of the replies to see if someone has already made this point. Too busy today.

But to answer your basic question: yes, two different events are being spoken of.

Matt. 24, Rev. 6, Is. 2, Heb. 12:18ff. and similar passages refer to the great signs in the heavens manifesting at the Coming of the Lord in the clouds, to call up the elect of His church to heavenly Mount Zion in the Rapture.

This event was foreshadowed in type when the Israelites came to Mount Sinai, and the LORD descended to the top of the mountain immediately following the shaking and dark clouds and fire, etc. He then called up His chosen onto the Mount. My 4-part blog posts "...And Every Eye Shall See Him" thoroughly explains these parallel events. Go here to read the parallels: 

“…and every eye will see Him…” Part 1

 

Now, the similar and yet different heavenly signs found in Joel 2, Ezek. 39, and Zech. 14 take place at the time of the great invasion of Israel in the Last Days, which occurs well after the Rapture. These unusual heavenly signs, and the personal intervention of God in earthly warfare, accompanied by great stones from heaven, were foreshadowed by the very similar events that took place on "Joshua's long day."  Joshua 10  Explained in summary here:

The Three Earthquakes of Revelation

 

ANY theory that links or attempts to link the rapture as happening with the 6th seal - is close, but not spot on: He comes and the church is called up just a moment before the 6th seal. 

 

Sorry, but the two witnesses testify in the second half of the week. They show up just before the midpoint and die just before the end of the week. Verses 11"4 through 11:13 are a parenthesis.

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Just now, Da Puppers said:

 You might try paying attention to the context: 

*[[Rev 16:21]] KJV* And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

The PuP 

I think that is was was being prophecies in the throne room.

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On 10/19/2018 at 6:46 PM, iamlamad said:

God is not going to have an "earthquake" in heaven, as it would then be a "heavenquake" - and heaven does not quake.

Yes, He will, and it will:

Heb. 12:26 And His voice shook the earth then, but now He has promised, saying, “YET ONCE MORE I WILL SHAKE NOT ONLY THE EARTH, BUT ALSO THE HEAVEN.”

Hag. 2:21 “Speak to Zerubbabel governor of Judah, saying, ‘I am going to shake the heavens and the earth."

Enoch 58:1. In the five hundredth year, and in the seventh month, on the fourteenth day of the month, of the lifetime of Enoch, in that parable, I saw that the heaven of heavens shook; that it shook violently; and that the powers of the Most High, and the angels, thousands of thousands, and myriads of myriads, were agitated with great agitation. And when I looked, the Ancient of days was sitting on the throne of his glory, while the angels and saints were standing around him. A great trembling came upon me, and terror seized me. My loins were bowed down and loosened; my reins were dissolved; and I fell upon my face. The holy Michael, another holy angel, one of the holy ones, was sent, who raised me up.

2. And when he raised me, my spirit returned; for I was incapable of enduring this vision of violence, its agitation, and the concussion of heaven.

3. Then holy Michael said to me, Wherefore art thou disturbed at this vision?

4. Hitherto has existed the day of mercy; and he has been merciful and longsuffering towards all who dwell upon the earth.

5. But when the time shall come, then shall the power, the punishment, and the judgment take place, which the Lord of spirits has prepared for those who prostrate themselves to the judgment of righteousness, for those who abjure that judgment, and for those who take his name in vain.

  • This is Worthy 1

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3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Yes, He will, and it will:

Heb. 12:26 And His voice shook the earth then, but now He has promised, saying, “YET ONCE MORE I WILL SHAKE NOT ONLY THE EARTH, BUT ALSO THE HEAVEN.”

Hag. 2:21 “Speak to Zerubbabel governor of Judah, saying, ‘I am going to shake the heavens and the earth."

Enoch 58:1. In the five hundredth year, and in the seventh month, on the fourteenth day of the month, of the lifetime of Enoch, in that parable, I saw that the heaven of heavens shook; that it shook violently; and that the powers of the Most High, and the angels, thousands of thousands, and myriads of myriads, were agitated with great agitation. And when I looked, the Ancient of days was sitting on the throne of his glory, while the angels and saints were standing around him. A great trembling came upon me, and terror seized me. My loins were bowed down and loosened; my reins were dissolved; and I fell upon my face. The holy Michael, another holy angel, one of the holy ones, was sent, who raised me up.

2. And when he raised me, my spirit returned; for I was incapable of enduring this vision of violence, its agitation, and the concussion of heaven.

3. Then holy Michael said to me, Wherefore art thou disturbed at this vision?

4. Hitherto has existed the day of mercy; and he has been merciful and longsuffering towards all who dwell upon the earth.

5. But when the time shall come, then shall the power, the punishment, and the judgment take place, which the Lord of spirits has prepared for those who prostrate themselves to the judgment of righteousness, for those who abjure that judgment, and for those who take his name in vain.

I think this "heaven" is the heaven we see when we look up, NOT the throne room!

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         I want to say a bit more about a group referred to by various names: NAR New Apostolic Revolution, Latter Day Rain, MSOG or Manifest Sons of God, Kingdom Now, Dominion Theology, Identity.  They and others teach against pre-tribulation Rapture and that Jesus will not come until believers take over, have dominion over the world.   I've read that they believe that the office of Apostle can be conferred by the laying on of their hands, and that the Church has replaced Israel, Replacement Theology.  
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         We will benefit from comparing Scriptures about 1) the grain harvest 2) the coming for the Bride 3) the householder on a journey who exhorts his servants to watch, and will learn much by looking again at the parables of Jesus.
         All unbelieving people left behind at the Rapture will live during the Time of Jacob's trouble.  God's plan will be fulfilled and many will be saved, but many will die, many will be executed, and suffering will be great.   One hundred forty four thousand Jewish men from the tribes will evangelize and many will believe.  After the departing of the Church, the Scripture will be fulfilled, Jeremiah 8:20  The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.  
         The book of Joel chapter 1 speaks of an event that has occurred:  "The word of the LORD that came to Joel the son of Pethuel. Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers?  Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation."  Verse 7: "He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white."   Does this event point to the missing believers and realization by Jews that they had not recognized Messiah, or does it indicate there has been a military attack on Israel?
         Specifics for events in the time of tribulation can be found in Daniel and in the Book of Revelation.
         The evil man will arise and set up world government and eventually enter the Temple in Jerusalem, saying he is God, and the most awful times will occur.  Great numbers of new believers, who will refuse to take his mark, will be beheaded.  Eventually, as Jesus warned, some will flee Jerusalem and hide in the mountains to the southeast, and be sustained by the Lord. 
         Evil unbelieving people of the tribulation are compared to a harvest gathering of grapes, to be crushed.
         Believers during the Time of Jacob's trouble might be compared to the olive harvest, the last harvest of the agricultural year, and the pressing of the olives.
         After a specific number of days, Jesus will come with all His saints, on white horses and clothed in white linen, and He will split Mount Olivet in Jerusalem, east to west.  He will slay all His enemies upon the earth by the word from His mouth.  Some people will live through the tribulation and have children, in a time of peace, blessing, abundance.  Satan will be bound, Rev. 20.
         Rev. 19:8  And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
         We look forward to His gathering of His grain harvest.  Rev. 22:20  Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
         
    • By Jonathan Dane
      (an excerpt from my book, Rise of the Little Horn)
       
      The Emergence
      A man with no military or political experience announces his run for the most powerful seat in the world. His promise? GREATNESS. He controls the flow of money, and is head over a military that is unmatched in the world. He is consumed with winning politically and fortifying his strongholds. Though initially thought of as a minor threat by his associates, he truly towers over them. He demolishes them by means of abusive and slanderous speech, tears down the character of those who oppose him and flatters and elevates those who admire him. He rises up as if by sheer will. He is an alpha male who plots and manipulates anything and everything to take down his opponents. He is seemingly unstoppable. To the utter amazement of the world, he succeeds at nearly everything he does, despite his lack of deep personal conviction on any issue except self-aggrandizement. His narcissistic pride is evident to all as he continually boasts, exaggerating his achievements and financial worth. He is characteristically disingenuous, so deftly twisting the truth that deceit becomes the norm rather than the exception.
      An aura emanates from him that seems to delude people’s thinking; making those―seemingly intelligent―unable to discern truth from falsehood. At some point, these deluded masses begin to view good things as evil and evil things as good. He is untamable, doing whatever he pleases. These characteristics cause other world leaders to fear him. He shows little regard for the support of women, yet boasts of his various adulterous relationships. Despite his inflated claims, he does possess considerable wealth, which he unabashedly flaunts; wealth accumulated through real estate holdings and building projects. Hailed as the consummate praised man of the city, he is a builder of great high towers, bedecked with precious stones and gold. He is obsessed with his name and plasters it on everything he touches.
      He is cunning and shrewd; playing his enemies like a game of cards. He is vicious in his desire to win. The concepts of grace and forgiveness find no place in him. Violence follows him wherever he goes; even to the killing of innocents who stand between him and his goals. His false show of religion gains the trust of people of faith―deluding them. He comes to power through the “simple folk” who have been discarded as insignificant. His supporters are unwavering in their commitment, for they worship the ground he walks on. His rise to power coincides with a political uprising and defection. Many will leave their former political affiliations.
      His ascension comes at a time of worldwide financial, social, religious, military and civil upheaval. But he will promise to restore law and order, and to soon put an end to crime and violence; a few of many extravagant promises he will never keep. He will establish an extreme vetting process to prevent illegals from gaining access. He will seek the wealth of Iraq as Russia shows signs of escalating military aggression towards the Middle East. Known for his ability to make deals, he promises to make a peace deal between Israel and her surrounding enemies. He plans a restructure of the balance of power in Europe in order to fight terror. The earth will be in global flux.
      Who do these paragraphs describe? This portrait was penned thousands of years ago. It is a biblical word picture of the most evil, ruthless killer of all time; a tyrant who will draw the world into the last great mega-battle known as Armageddon. The Bible refers to this man as the Son of Perdition, the Man of Sin, the Wicked One, the Worthless Shepherd, the Beast, the LIE, the Adversary, the Spoiler, the Willful King, the Lawless One, the Desolator, and more. This man’s wickedness grows until, eventually, Satan himself will possess him. He is known to most as the Antichrist. 

      (Copyright 2016 - Jonathan Dane - All Rights Reserved)
    • By Omegaman 3.0
      This one is lengthy, almost 45 minutes, but I think it is worth your time. I found it fascinating and delightful, and should be encouraging and helpful to Christians. I was tempted to put it in the Bible Topics area, there is a not of Bible in it. However it is more of a testimony of the remarkable events of Corrie's life of how she came to be imprisoned in Nazi Germany for hiding Jews from persecution, and her experiences in concentration camps. Did you know fleas and lice, can be a blessing from God, and an ant can give you a sermon?
      There are lessons here, for any who might find themselves in persecution, (real persecution, not merely being ridiculed for your faith at the work place) to see how faith can see us through, should such events ever befall us.
       
       
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